[ricardojoa]

Those Dayton cabinets are fine in their original form and can be better looking with some reveneer and a new baffle. As far as the question about mdf, im sure you can get better material but the mdf are cheap and with proper built and construction I don't see a problem with the design in the Dayton cabinets.
Of course, I wouldn't pay 5000 for a pair of speaker using these pre fab cabinet let alone 20k. I think I know which company you are talking about.

[loving_it]

I don't see the problem ?  The biggest cost of a speakers build is the Cabinet . Do you think these speaker builders just unpack the Dayton cabinet and shove some speakers into it ? No they look it over and make sure they are comfortable with the cabinet since there name is on the line . Show me one post where there was an issue with a this method from a reputable builder . These speaker companies are offering this option to help people get into a good speaker with top notch drivers for a good price .Are there posts with issues because of these cabinets ? Any reputable builder will warranty these cabinets anyways . One has the option to pay more for a hand built cabinet if that's what they want , but then again most people will have a problem with the cost of that option since it takes many hours to build a nice cabinet and labor isn't free 

[Kenneth Patchen]

Well, if you don't like MDF, how about 3/4" aluminum?
http://app.audiogon.com/listings/full-range-troels-gravesen-custom-aluminum-trades-2014-01-28-speakers-93720


Ring 'dem bells.

Cheerio,
KP

[Rick Craig]

Some make the underlying assumption that birch ply is better than MDF for speaker cabinets. MDF is easier to machine and not subject to voids as well as a better substrate for veneer. Plywood has very good stiffness but tends to ring more than MDF so the walls need to be damped well. Other materials can be used (such as carbon fiber which I have utilized a few times) but the assembly cost increases quite a bit.

From a manufacturers perspective you have to look at benefit vs. cost (assuming that's it's not a cost-no-object design, which most are). I once interviewed for a job with a now-defunct speaker company, Soliloquy. Nice looking cabinets that were pretty solid but combined with mediocre / cheap drivers and crossovers. That's what often happens in the high-end to meet a price point.

[Canada Rob]

Back in the 70's particle board was prominant.  Manufacturers then went to MDF because of it's superior sound quality and density.  Today ply and bamboo are very popular.  There is high quality MDF, ply, and bamboo, and there are top notch speakers made of all these materials, as on the contrary there is garbage MDF, ply, and bamboo.  Also, any material will get damaged if you drop it on a corner, so that argument is a moot point. 

When properly contsructed, MDF is very stable, not to mention it's an excellent blank canvas for any type of finish, especially veneer.  A good speaker designer chooses his material based on his design first, aesthetics second.  Some designs are best with MDF, some ply, some bamboo. I have no problem with the Dayton cabinets in their proper context - a budget speaker or DIY project.  In speakers costing from $2000 to $10,000 (like what I'm seeing at the shows) I have serious concerns.  Just my 2.56 cents worth (Canadian funds)

[undertow]

Only reason I mentioned a corner bump with MDF is simply it will split, chip, or turn to dust, veneer is virtually gone. Solid wood, or birch would be sanded out, even re-clamped for a split, and shaped maybe put on a little stain, and likely will not be too big a deal.

The best cabinets are a combination of Solid wood corners, MDF core, and Ply baffle. But of course construction is far more complex and costly.

By the way this all comes down to common sense and logistics. Of course small cheap MDF cabinets are just fine, easy to move, much more dense, and fairly good quality.

Build a floorstanding unit out of that same MDF and quality does not hold up the same. So SIZE of the cabinet really determines how good its construction will be with 100% MDF. Truth is I have built 100% MDF with great results, but used 2 - layers interlocking of MDF, with all rounded solid corners etc... to avoid a lot of the issues that would happen with physical damage. But again this is for much larger 100 lb plus cabinets.

[Vapor Audio]

The first time I watched air pass through MDF like it wasn't even there, when used as a wasteboard on a CNC vacuum table, I said I'd never use MDF in a cabinet again!  But there are a lot more reasons not to use MDF.  Honestly, the only thing MDF has going for it is cheap and easy.  Cheap is the entire point of MDF, they sweep up the waste product off the floor of the mill and press it into a board. 

And as somebody else mentioned, MDF comes in a wide range of 'qualities'.  When we do use MDF (never mount drivers to it), we use an ultra-refined product called Plum Creek that is formaldehyde free and is 100% plantation grown pine.  It's much denser edge to edge, without that fuzzy velvet feel in the middle of the cross section.  It's better, but still BB Ply, especially BB Ply on the end grain, is much much better.  But back to the PE cabinets, my issue with them isn't so much that they're MDF, or that they're made in China, it's that the MDF they use is a very low quality.  We use the cabinets in our entry level stuff, but only after extensive mods.  When we're done the cabinets weigh 3x what they do to start, that's the only way I'll use them.  And I NEVER use their baffles.  The baffles that come with the cabinets are the cheapest MDF I've ever seen, you can literally peel layers off with your fingernails, it's like they're made of pressed toilet paper. 

[undertow]

Experience cutting a 100 lb finished MDF cabinet, and can end up with about 100 lbs of MDF dust on the floor which can be nasty to work with for sure.

[Bob in St. Louis]

Years ago, there was a fellow on the Decware forum whose wife was in and out of the hospital for many years. The doctors finally figured out it was the outgassing of the MDF from his (many) speaker projects.
Jus sayin'....

[undertow]

 

[Canada Rob]

Truly good MDF will be made to CARB standards and not have the nasties.  I've cut a lot of MDF in my time and always wore a mask and eye protection.  Never caused me a problem.  If you're doing it in your garage without a dust extractor, yes, I would switch to ply too.

Swept off the floor?  Maybe in China.

[Folsom]

Actually the fine particles you can't see, and take about 30 minutes or so to settle, min, are a problem especially with non-eco MDF. This is true of all wood and wood products. You should wet mop after settling has occurred; perhaps wear a mask, sweep, wait, then mop.

Dust extraction can be good enough to go mask free, but you need it tuned very well with special micron filters or exhausting outside.

Masks? Anything that's organic vapor or HEPA works.

[JLM]

At any given price point the designer has to decide how much cost to invest in cabinets (substrate, bracing, sealing, stuffing, finishing, and labor) versus guts (drivers, crossover, posts, and wiring).  Even without retailing or distribution costs, a $1000 pair of speakers probably have $600 invested in labor and materials (after overhead and profit are accounted for).  If the Parts Express cabinets are $300/pair (and no one is saying they're a poor value), how much would it cost to build the same in small production runs in the U.S. (and expecting the pride factor to be represented with better materials/workmanship)?  How much does that leave for the guts to satisfy audiophiles? 

[Bemopti123]

I have several speakers.  Some made out of MDF, larger floorstanders, small box speakers etc....  I think be it MDF or birch ply made, it is all a question of how much we know about the materials that are used.  It would be truly enlightening to make two of the same speakers one out of MDF and another out of birch ply and do a blind listening test.  I am sure the listener will be surprised.  I believe that as long as the MDF made speaker is not roughed up or bump, the physical and chemical compromise that people stated will not come to be.

As far as the harm that comes from handling MDF sheets on an industrial scale or in a hobbyist garage setting, that is a different question. 

I believe that as consumers, we want it all, affordable prices and top quality materials...that is impossible.  And when a manufacturer averages everything in with top end cabinets, people will go out there and lament how expensive these things are.  As you can see, it is impossible to satisfy all our neurotic needs. 

BUT, I did hear from a post that those Parts Express cabs are not as well built, meaning they ring.  I wonder if that is true.   

[Charles Xavier]

These go for around $6000 and they look like Dayton cabinets to me and from a very well known company.




These went for about $2000 and were built by Bob Smith of Aether Audio formerly SP Technologies

[ricardojoa]

The majority of cost of custom cabinets made in US come from labor rather than the cost of material.
No one want to get paid at minimum wage.
Also, that well know manufacture have some towers made of Dayton cabinets and are charging 20k.
Everything is relative, as i know to designer do not over charger their speakers using these cabinets.

[JLM]

I have several speakers.  Some made out of MDF, larger floorstanders, small box speakers etc....  I think be it MDF or birch ply made, it is all a question of how much we know about the materials that are used.  It would be truly enlightening to make two of the same speakers one out of MDF and another out of birch ply and do a blind listening test.  I am sure the listener will be surprised.  I believe that as long as the MDF made speaker is not roughed up or bump, the physical and chemical compromise that people stated will not come to be.

As far as the harm that comes from handling MDF sheets on an industrial scale or in a hobbyist garage setting, that is a different question. 

I believe that as consumers, we want it all, affordable prices and top quality materials...that is impossible.  And when a manufacturer averages everything in with top end cabinets, people will go out there and lament how expensive these things are.  As you can see, it is impossible to satisfy all our neurotic needs. 

BUT, I did hear from a post that those Parts Express cabs are not as well built, meaning they ring.  I wonder if that is true.   

Thinking of the ones being shown, being small 3/4 inch thick panels (the largest of which are curved) with bracing I'd be surprised if they exhibited excessive vibrations. 

[JLM]

These go for around $6000 and they look like Dayton cabinets to me and from a very well known company.




These went for about $2000 and were built by Bob Smith of Aether Audio formerly SP Technologies

As I mentioned above, I don't see these cabinets being out of line for speakers in this price range.  Would rather put the money into the guts than a cabinet that only has a direct effect on frequencies below 300 Hz.

[Charles Xavier]

As I mentioned above, I don't see these cabinets being out of line for speakers in this price range.  Would rather put the money into the guts than a cabinet that only has a direct effect on frequencies below 300 Hz.

Agreed as that is how I felt when I owned the Spirit 1

[Vapor Audio]

As I mentioned above, I don't see these cabinets being out of line for speakers in this price range.  Would rather put the money into the guts than a cabinet that only has a direct effect on frequencies below 300 Hz.

The cabinet affects all frequencies, not just bass.  Cabinet resonances, edge diffraction, sound transmission through the walls, standing waves, internal backwave reflections, I could go on.  Thinking cabinets only affect bass is fooling yourself.