[SRO04]

Greetings = My listening/HT room is 12'x13' and I'm considering Veracity ST's, an HT2C center speaker, and a Salk/Rythmik 12" sub versus Soundscape 8's, HT2C center, and continue to use my REL-T9 sub. I will use my current front L/R B&W CDM 1NT's as rears. My concern is that the SS8's would be too much speaker given room size limitations. Any input would be greatly appreciated!

[ratso]

just my opinion but i've never been convinced that you can have "too much speaker" for a space. too little, yes, but not too much. the biggest question is whether or not you think the ss8 is that much better a speaker than the st to justify the upgrade. i have never heard either.

[JonnyFive]

I don't think you can have too much speaker either.  You may want to ask Jim and Dennis about the minimum listening distance for various designs, if that would matter at all.

I'd buy the best L/R you can afford, and worry about matching other pieces later.  A pair of SS8s could last you a lifetime, whereas you may get upgrade-itis with the Veracity STs.

I think Jim is working on a new, relatively economical, 3 way design as well. 

[JonnyFive]

And to add one more comment about the SS8s, the bass is so good I could have lived without a subwoofer.  Heresy from a HT afficionado, I know.

My room was about 20 x 12 x 10, opening into dining room as well as opening to the upstairs.  The SS8 bass was more than sufficient for anything I threw at it.

[Rocket]

Hi,

I presume that you will be using the salk speakers mainly for home theatre?  If so the SS8's would be a bit overkill imo.  I understand that a few members use them for this purpose but unless the rest of the audio gear is similar quality you will never get the best from them.

I have a pair of Salk Sound HT3's that unties the Aurum Cantus ribbon tweeter and I'm continually amazed that they rise to the challenge everytime I upgrade my system.  For example, I use Spread Spectrum Technologies Ampzilla 2000 second edition which are highly rated and cost in the vicinity of $9000US for the mono blocks.

Of course this is for you to decide but I did have a pair of Salk Sound HT2's (older version) and a single salk sound rhythmic subwoofer and the sound was very good.  Good luck with your decision.

Cheers Rod

[Mudslide]

I can only speak to large speakers in a small room...sadly not owning SS8s.  (Not yet, anyway.)

I replaced my main system's former speakers, Aerial Acoustics 7B's, and had not much luck selling them.  So I decided to replace the set of small, high quality monitors w/ sub in my 11'x12' office with these big dudes.  I couldn't believe how dramatic the improvement of these speakers was in this suboptimal setting.  They were next to a wall and closed in by office stuff.  Yet dynamics, immersive quality, intimacy, and general performance was enhanced over the 25'x27' room they formerly called home.  They in no way overwhelm the room.  I will never go back to small speakers again.  Absolutely no sub is necessary.  All who hear this setup love it.

Good wishes on your new setup, whatever decide.

[Big Red Machine]

That is a small room.  How about Silks instead?  Plenty of bass for a room that size.

[SRO04]

Thanks for all the thoughtful replies! I'm in what will probably be, barring some unforseen medical breakthrough, the last quadrant of my life and want this to be my last system upgrade. About 2/3 of my listening is to music (I'm a drummer, you know, the guy who gets to hang out with the musicians!). While I trust the ST's are exquisite, I don't want to feel "remorse" that I didn't just go for it. I'm probably going to visit Jim's shop in Pontiac for a listen and a chat. Is Jon Paul still around? He had a small space filled with Salk speakers. I am curious how he felt about the SS8's in his small space after owning them for awhile...

[Rocket]

Hi,

The supercharged Song Towers and subwoofer will cost in the vicinity of $5000US and for an extra $3000 you could purchase the SS8's.  I've had the HT2'S and upgraded to HT3 speakers and there was a noticeable improvement of sound quality.  I have listened to a pair of SS8's but I know accuton mid range drivers well and they are a good improvement over the SEAS drivers.

A large room in my experience will provide deeper bass response in my experience.  I have a smaller room and use HT3'S and the sound is still very good.  Just jump for the SS8'S if you want your dream speakers.  Although there are always other temptations...

Cheers Rod

[Big Red Machine]

What's your budget?

[SRO04]

8-12k...

[Rocket]

Hi Mike,

I think Jim has a pair of Exotica 3's which were the first pair every built selling for $10000.  I like the look of this speaker but not sure if everyone else would though.  A number of Salk customers have upgraded from SS8 to Exotica 3's.

Good luck

Rod

[jonpol]

Is Jon Paul still around?

My ears were buzzing!

About 2/3 of my listening is to music. While I trust the ST's are exquisite, I don't want to feel "remorse" that I didn't just go for it. Is Jon Paul still around? He had a small space filled with Salk speakers. I am curious how he felt about the SS8's in his small space after owning them for awhile...

In case you haven't seen it, here's something I wrote to someone facing a similar decision where I also quote an email from Jim to me about the same subject:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=115294.msg1205135#msg1205135

I still feel the same now as I did when I wrote that post.

I had SongSeries speakers in the small room in my condo for about a year and a half before I added the SS8s as mains, and I lived with those in the same room for almost exactly a year before I moved and had to put all my speakers in storage for 9 months. I'm now in a bigger but still relatively small room in a house, and have lived with the same speakers in the new space for about 6 months now.

The short version of my opinion is that I do not believe (at all) that the SS8s are too much speaker for a small room, but I do believe that you will probably not get the full benefit of them in a space that small and that, consequently, they may be overkill.

Put another way: There was an obvious improvement upgrading from the SongTowers as my main speakers to the SS8s, but I don't believe that it was nearly as big of an improvement as I would have noticed if I had had them in a better (bigger) space. I have never regretted buying the SS8s (except maybe when I had to move them down from the 3rd floor condo  ) and I honestly don't think you would regret them either, but I also honestly don't think you would regret the Veracity HTs. (If something happened to my SS8s I could go back to the SongTowers or the SongBirds I have as mains and still listen with a smile on my face.)

One thing I would absolutely recommend would be room treatments. I find that I don't have nearly the "golden ears" that most people in this hobby have, and I often can't tell any difference (good or bad) between things like cables, connections, and even amps (sorry  ). Because of this, before I had any room treatments I wondered whether it would be worth it to get any, or whether I would end up with oversized and overpriced pillows on the wall. Now that I can speak from experience, though, I would definitely recommend them, especially in a small room like you have.

Also, you would definitely not need a subwoofer with SS8s. I'm not saying not to get one if you want (I have one, and you may prefer the flexibility to move it around based on your room independently of the mains), but you will not need one, especially for music. When I had SongTowers as mains I could never make up my mind whether I preferred music with or without the subwoofer helping, but with SS8s it's pretty clear that there's no need of a sub. I still have it for movies and crossover my other speakers to it, but the SS8s are fine as they are.

One other thing to consider with a small room (this is maybe obvious to most people, but it wasn't to me): To really get the FULL EXPERIENCE with speakers you have to play them loud. Not necessarily rattle-the-neighbors'-windows loud, but louder than you would have them on while being able to have a comfortable conversation with someone. Now that I'm in a house instead of a condo I can turn up the volume without worrying about disturbing anyone below me, and it starts to make some of the strengths of the SS8 clearer. With that being said, I find that my default volume when I'm not necessarily "critically" listening but I just want to relax while listening to music that I enjoy tends to be softer, and I think some of this is because my room (even now) is on the smaller side. If you like to crank things to 11 (and maybe you do as a drummer  ) then disregard this, but if you think that, like me, you might usually have things at a more moderate level that could be another reason to consider going with something cheaper.

My advice, if you care, is this: If the price isn't an issue (and it sounds like it isn't from your most recent post), get the SS8s. They are awesome, and I think you'll be happy with them regardless of your room situation. If the price is more than you want to spend, though, I honestly don't think you would be disappointed with the Veracity STs.

Let me know if you have any more specific questions about my experiences that I could answer, and good luck making your decision!

[jd3]

SRO04,

I was in your position a few years ago (I’m at the same life stage as you).  I had a pair of SS8’s that I used in a rooms that ranged from 20’ x 30’ to 10’ x 12’.   I’d agree with jonpol’s comments.  To me they sounded better in a big room (and yes I could play them LOUD as the house was out in the country and no neighbors).  They were fine in the smaller room I had them in, but I really appreciated them more in a larger space.  I never felt I needed a sub either in any room I had them in.  I ended up “downsizing” back to SongTowers, and frankly am looking at stand mounts/monitors just because they’re a lot easier to move.  You won’t be disappointed in anything you buy from Jim.

John 

[kingdeezie]

Until you start reaching the limit of a speaker's ability to effectively load a room, any speaker will always sound better as a room's dimensions increase.

The further you can get both the speaker, and the listener, away from boundaries, I think the better the sound gets.

Honestly, with a 12K budget, I would say jump on the Exotica train if you can.

The way I understood what Jim told me when I was picking which one of his speakers to purchase, was that the Exotica 3's are pretty forgiving when it comes to placement because of their sealed nature.

There are no rear ports to concern yourself with, and no side firing radiators to have to contend with the sidewalls.

With a room that narrow, you could play with toe in enough that you could have a presentable center image from all of the listening positions. This would allow you to use a phantom center arrangement.

The Exoticas also sound amazing to boot, and really really shine with vocals. Watching TV, movies, and playing games, is great.

You could eventually stack the back wall with a ton of bass traps in order to mitigate the back wall interferance as well. Your proximity to the back wall will be a problem with any speaker however, and would need to be done in any event.

Good luck!

[Big Red Machine]

I am going to go outside my comfort zone and double down on my guidance that the room is too small.  I see it as owning a thoroughbred that gets to excercise in a dog pen.  It's nice to have the coin to buy that thoroughbred, but if I can't gettyup and go, it sure looks like a waste of money.  Not that I don't want to see Jim get an order for a pair of floorstanders, but.... a very nice set of bookshelf speakers, like the Silks, will dig deep and play wide for way less straw and oats.  Best of luck in your choice!

[Rocket]

Hi,

I've done the conversion from Imperial to Metric and that room is very small.  I had a pair of Salk Sound HT2's and sold to a friend and I was amazed at the improvement in bass response from the large room that he listened to the speakers.  My room is large than yours and I just don't think you would benefit from the low bass of the SS8's.

Jim could definitely help you though as he is a very honest person to deal with and won't steer you in the wrong direction for a sale.  I've bought HT2's, Rhythmic subwoofer and HT3 speakers. 

Cheers Rod

[Carl V]

have you spoken with Jim?
have you Considered M7 Monitors?

Best of luck

[Kenneth Patchen]

Whoa, 12x13? That's a small room. I have both HT2s and SongBirds. I've had the SongBirds in a 12 x 13 upstairs room, and they did the job nicely. If I was going to go up the Salk line looking for SB replacements I'd go with SongTowers, not the SS8s. I wouldn't even put the HT2s in that room. IMO the SS8s would be wasted in that space and you'd be unhappy. Save yourself some money, buy smaller.

As James Brown said, "It's not the size of the sea, it's the motion of the ocean".


Cheers,
KP

[SRO04]

Thank you all for your two cents and then some! Amazing how much time in day can be spent fantasizing about Salk speakers...