The future of hi/end audio & a rant on honesty in reviewing (tuning fuses)

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werd

Well maintaining its safety feature I would want to see the fuse encased in a non-resonant material. Glass has
got to be the worst. How ever it allows visual inspection.

RDavidson

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Yah I know its a beaut  :thumb:

And a brute. :thumb:

Roger A. Modjeski


Ceramic tubing is routinely used in Bussman, Littlefuse and others for their strength as they will not shatter when a fuse goes under heavy interrupt current. We use only ceramic, sand filled fuses for the tubes in our amplifiers. I believe we were the first to individually fuse tubes. I got a great education on fuses in the process and it appears the makers of these premium fuses have not done their homework. Have they even consulted amplifier makers on what the fuse needs to do?

For those who missed earlier posts. When a fuse interrupts in a DC circuit (tube fuse) the interrupting causes the element to turn to plasma which continues to conduct long after it should. This extended time causes damage to the circuit. Ceramic fuses are often filled with sand which helps prevent the plasma from forming.

My original objection to tuning fuses is that while they are ceramic they are not sand filled. To make matters worse they enclose the element in Teflon sleeve which increases the plasma problem making these totally unsuitable for DC applications.

I find it hard to believe that a fuse resonates at all. If some readers want to believe it does and the ceramic makes things sound better they are welcome to that belief as I hope I am welcome to mine.


werd

Ceramic tubing is routinely used in Bussman, Littlefuse and others for their strength as they will not shatter when a fuse goes under heavy interrupt current. We use only ceramic, sand filled fuses for the tubes in our amplifiers. I believe we were the first to individually fuse tubes. I got a great education on fuses in the process and it appears the makers of these premium fuses have not done their homework. Have they even consulted amplifier makers on what the fuse needs to do?

For those who missed earlier posts. When a fuse interrupts in a DC circuit (tube fuse) the interrupting causes the element to turn to plasma which continues to conduct long after it should. This extended time causes damage to the circuit. Ceramic fuses are often filled with sand which helps prevent the plasma from forming.

My original objection to tuning fuses is that while they are ceramic they are not sand filled. To make matters worse they enclose the element in Teflon sleeve which increases the plasma problem making these totally unsuitable for DC applications.

I find it hard to believe that a fuse resonates at all. If some readers want to believe it does and the ceramic makes things sound better they are welcome to that belief as I hope I am welcome to mine.

AC from the wall its going to resonate. Even if the voltage drop is in the millivolts across the fuse.  DC its less of an issue.

DaveC113

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Pretty sure my analogy isn't far off the mark. The power doesn't go straight from the wall to an amp's output devices in any case I've ever seen. Perhaps the power supply "pool" is small or less efficient in some amps, so any time there's a significant depletion in electrons, it is noticeable (though not necessarily clipping the amp). Now, I'm not disregarding anyone's personal experience with what they hear and experience. I'm just trying to make sense of / clear up things a bit.

The reason I think the "pool" analogy doesn't work is because if it were true then anything upstream of a cap bank or ps filter section would then be inaudible, and in my experience this isn't the case...  It is true that the signal (in this case 60 Hz sine wave), may have noise attenuated, but it isn't fully "wiped clean" by these attempts at isolation. I don't believe it's really possible to fully isolate a component in the way the pool analogy leads one to believe, and I think power is delivered in a more direct fashion. I think of the voltage as force that continually moves electrons and the pool (cap or coil) is more like those long lines at airport security and the voltage the rate at which people are allowed through the line. So, I'm not saying energy is not stored and released, that would be contrary to some rather obvious electrical principles, but that the though of a pool of electrons that truly isolates upstream from downstream components isn't what is really happening.

Good discussion though, I think getting a good intuitive feel for what's happening is very helpful and analogies can serve to do that. But electrons are not exactly like water and water pressure is not exactly like voltage and for the analogy to be truly helpful we need to understand the limits of what's really applicable in the analogy.

AC from the wall its going to resonate. Even if the voltage drop is in the millivolts across the fuse.  DC its less of an issue.

I fully agree, it's in the nature of the signal for the AC to cause resonances. One place I can clearly see and feel this happening is in rectifier tubes. Some of them buzz a little bit. So do some transformers. So, in these devices alternating current is causing mechanical resonance, and it could certainly be the case with fuses too. Audio is all about vibration and resonance.  :green:

Roger A. Modjeski

As moderator it is my duty to lock this topic temporarily. Having a squabble as to whether people can hear fuses and reasons for why they can and why they can't itn't going to be productive.

Perhaps Fastfred can start another post where we can discuss where to go with this one. The only good thing I have learned from this is that this topic  of fuses gets a lot of attention, some of it from others in the industry (industry participants) who are using our site to promote their products.