Modding the Toshiba SD4960 DVD/DVD-A/CD/SACD player

sjmikeb · « **Reply #180 on:** 21 Oct 2005, 05:26 pm »

Okay, looks like I have a couple of things left to play with then.

Bob, I'm going to let the player finish burning in before I try snubbing the HexFreds. I will post the results after I have tried it. It will likely be a few weeks, I am leaving on vacation at the end of next week.

Regards,
Mike

rhale64 · « **Reply #181 on:** 21 Oct 2005, 07:52 pm »

This is getting more and more interesting. I left my dvd player on for 7 hours straight today. I can tell you it is burning in nicely. I wish someone else would try these exotic diode bridges from Ram. But at the new low price of fifty bucks I am sure nobody will bite. I got a steal at 25 bucks.

Well at least I can say I have done something nobody else has done. It really is incredible sounding.
What caps should I use for the Swenson beeing I have a 47kohm input impedance on my Pre. I guess I should probably go with Swensons .47uf suggestion huh? But also what brand up to about 30.00$ a cap should I use? Considering my liquid, rythmic taste in sound quality? I do not want very detailed. I want a nice pace with good speed. But I want it liquid not bright. Any suggestions from those that have tried them all?
I have been thinking about trying a clock upgrade later on. Anybody that tried it give any testimonials?

BobM · « **Reply #182 on:** 21 Oct 2005, 08:26 pm »

If you want liquid I would definitely suggest the Sonicaps. You can go with a .47uF cap, per Swenson, but be aware that larger caps will produce better bass. I would suggest a 1uF cap to cover all bases. Going larger won't give you any better results, most likely (I used a 3uF but only because that's what I had lying around). for good measure, but two .1uF or .01uF Sonicap II's to bypass the other caps. They only run about $2-3 each and are well worth the little extra effort.

Many people used Auricaps, but they are more expensive and tend to be overly transparent in this application to my ears - meaning missing that midrange nuance and naturalness that I hear with the Sonicaps. Kind of like a silver wire vs copper wire thing (I'm a copper wire guy, the silver is more precise but leaves me cold because it doesn't have the palpability of the copper - you get the string of the guitar but not the wood with silver).

As for a clock upgrade, if you want to go whole hog then this is going to make a big difference. It's not cheap though, so most people haven't taken that plunge. It's also a tricky installation and you need to know what your doing.

Good luck. I'm glad to hear that you're happy with the results.

Bob

rhale64 · « **Reply #183 on:** 21 Oct 2005, 08:35 pm »

What about these platinum series sonicaps?

BobM · « **Reply #184 on:** 21 Oct 2005, 08:47 pm »

If you want to spend $100 each for a V-cap, and wait 3 months for it to break in, then go ahead. They are probably the best, but then again you're talking about a <$100 CD player here.

I'm a little more frugal than that and the Sonicaps are truly good sounding caps. They also make a very good teflon cap, but the prices are way high too.

Enjoy,.
Bob

Occam · « **Reply #185 on:** 21 Oct 2005, 08:54 pm »

Bob,

What are the subjective differences between the Sonicap Gen I & IIs? Where the value and voltage ratings coincide they seem to have the same price.

TIA,
Paul

BobM · « **Reply #186 on:** 21 Oct 2005, 10:57 pm »

Paul,

After speaking with Jeff at Sonicraft directly he told me (I am remembering and paraphrasing greatly, so be aware I may be getting this a bit wrong) the original Sonicap I's are most appropriate for crossovers. However he wanted to design a separate line that was better at bypassing and had slightly different sonic qualities (the II's), and that's why they only came in the smaller values. The I's are most extended at the frequency extremes and come in the larger values. The II's have a slightly better midrange and are best for bypassing without getting the potentially over emphasized extreme top end frequencies (i.e. overly etched) that some bypass caps can bring to the table.

I know Bob Crump told me he found that to be the case with many bypass caps he had tried. That's why he recommended using Relcap RT's to bypass the Nichicon KG Gold caps in my amp - thay have a similar sonic quality and complement each other without an over emphasized top end.

Enjoy,
Bob

rhale64 · « **Reply #187 on:** 21 Oct 2005, 11:26 pm »

Wow 100$ each that is incredible. I will go the 1 uf Sonicap with the .01uf sonicap 2 route then probably. Just trying to be different than everybody else again. How about that mica I have bypassing the big BlackGate? Should I leave it? Try something different? Or take it out all together?

BobM · « **Reply #188 on:** 21 Oct 2005, 11:46 pm »

No harm bypassing the big power supply cap. Although with Black Gates you don't usually need to do anything extra to them - they sing all by themselves.

I may be slightly exaggerating on the $100 per cap for teflon, but they are definitely up there (maybe $70-80?).

Bob

rhale64 · « **Reply #189 on:** 22 Oct 2005, 01:47 am »

I will pull the mica then when I get my other caps. I will also take a pic of this diode bridge. This has been a lot of fun. And to think that my 60.00 plus about 100.00 in mods so far will beat the crap out of my buddies Denon dvd 9000. I have heard them both and mine sounds better. At least in my system mine sounds better.

sjmikeb · « **Reply #190 on:** 22 Oct 2005, 12:59 pm »

Rhale64,

I would have thought the PS BG cap you installed would be about $100 just by itself. What value did you install, and where did you get it?

Yeah, I'm too cheap to spring for those V-Caps. I wonder if anybody out there has tried the Solen Teflons, I would imagine they are much cheaper, don't know about their sonics, or where you can get them for that matter.

Bob, I noticed someone awhile back was attempting to install a clock upgrade, but I never saw a followup. I would be interested in the results. But on the other hand, it would be interesting to take a look at the stock clock, maybe I will when I get a chance. I am guessing it's not too bad, since these players sound pretty damn good.

If it's a big step-up, there's the HagClock which is more reasonably priced then alot of the others out there. Besides, I like his stuff. I built his the Cornet shortly after it came out. On the other hand, I can't personally justify spending twice as much on a clock upgrade than I paid for the player.

Bob, did you ever get the HagDac. I thought it was you that mentioned you were interested in it, I have been thinking about running it standalone. Just build a supply, or maybe running it off a battery supply.

Regards,
Mike

rhale64 · « **Reply #191 on:** 22 Oct 2005, 03:42 pm »

Mike I got the 150uf 350V VK series BlackGate. It was only 18.00 from Kyoto Electro. But I wouldnt suggest getting one from them. It took a month and a half to get it. I could have got the N series but for double the price I couldnt see it. It is in the power section after all. That is supposedly what these VK series are for. I did a couple other weird things though. I replaced AE4 and AE5 with my spare Panasonics. I believe it was the 33uf 35 volt jobbies. The only reason I did this is because I had allready lifted the neg of each one to do a Ram style bypass mod. It was easier to just pull it alltogether than to try to rebend the neg. Also on the Big Blackgate cap. To get it in I removed the resistor that it bumped up against. I bent the tabs in kind of a stair step pattern. It gave me just enough clearance to get the cap in just like the original. The resistor still had plenty of leg to go completely through the holes. I also replaced the cap PEF 12 with a 50volt 1uf Blackgate N. I have no idea what this does but the cap was only 2.34 from the same vendor. Hope this helps.

sjmikeb · « **Reply #192 on:** 22 Oct 2005, 05:11 pm »

Cool, I see the one you got now on the PartsConnexion page, it's about $20.00. Don't know if you have ordered from them before, but it's a good outfit and fast service.

If you still want to play with bypassing you might try a decent film cap, somewhere between 1 and 2 uF, maybe a Solen. I was going to try this, but it was too much trouble trying to fit it. I am not sure it's worth the trouble.

If you're happy now, wait til you get the Swenson (or whatever your doing) mod in.

Regards,
Mike

rhale64 · « **Reply #193 on:** 22 Oct 2005, 06:25 pm »

Mike, I have been thinking about this bypassing of the big BlackGate. I am going to get a different enclosure. It will be bigger towards the back. Also the circuit board will be mounted in the middle right under the cd drawer. This will give me more room in that critical power supply section. I am going to have two bridges go from side to side to mount the cd tray. Thick 1/4" aluminum. One in the front, and one towards the back. This will mean that I can stand those two auricaps up on there ends, next to the board. It would also give me plenty of room for a nice film bypass cap to go right next to the board. It would give me enough room to put my diode bridge flat on a board like Ram does it. This would mean all the RCA's would be changed to higher quality. I would not need the optical or coax digital outs so no worries there. I may eventually do the Swenson on all channels. I would but the caps right next to the rca's for each channel. This would make the look a lot cleaner.
I have ordered from PartsConnexion before and it was very pleasant. They even let me change my order three times before they shipped the stuff out. I will get most of my stuff from them in the future.
And I cant wait to get the Swenson done. You modders say this is the one that takes it to the next level. If that is the case I will really be happy.

sjmikeb · « **Reply #194 on:** 23 Oct 2005, 02:10 am »

Rhale64,

BTW, what's your first name? Anyway, I did the bypass to the PS cap with a 2.2 uF Solen I had on hand. I ran some leads from underneath the board to the top where there is space to use some double-stick tape to mount the cap. There was even a convenient hole in the pcb to run the leads.

So, I can't tell you how much effect it had since I did several things at once: Bumped up the line caps to .200 uF, rope caulked (Moretite) the whole bottom of chassis, strategic places on and around the drive, and on some of the components. But damn, this thing sounds even better. Better quicker bass (more defined), less harsh, etc. I think the dampening had alot to do with it, but I can't say for sure.

I am saving the snubber experiment as a solo mod so I can have a better handle on the effect.

BTW, your chassis sounds cool, but I am a cheap SOB. Besides the Samsung box doesn't look too bad. With all the Moretite, it even feels more substantial. I am using some small spikes for feet that I never used on another project -- looks cool anyway.

Regards,
Mike

rhale64 · « **Reply #195 on:** 23 Oct 2005, 02:07 pm »

Mike my name is Ron. Anyway I have damped the crap out of mine also. I damped mine with HomeDepot vinyle flooring. Mine has some kind of metal in it though. I forget what it was called. It was expensive but on clearance. I have installed it everywhere. I even put a big square piece right on top of the transport. I have added spikes from Parts express. And I have the Toshiba. I just can't look at this thing sitting on the shelf. It looks way to cheap. I agree your Samsung looks ten times better. I feel with a new chassis and the rest of the mods I will be happy with this thing for years. As of right now out of all the cd players I have heard mine ranks second. Behind a two year old 5,000$ Mcintosh. But I cant say anything about the Linn or any of the other real high end models. That is what I am going after. If I can compete with a meridian or Linn with a 200.00 clock upgrade than I will do it. I think for the total cost invested with all parts and chassis I would still be under 500.00$ If it can compete in the 5,000-10,000 range that is a small price to pay.

Occam · « **Reply #196 on:** 23 Oct 2005, 06:49 pm »

Just a comment on available low cost industrial caps that may be appropriate for certain applications. In ps bypass and snubber applications minimization of inductance (an ineveitable product of specific construction method) is critical. Epcos (formerly Seimens) makes a low cost, high spec stacked polyproplene cap available from Digikey -
http://www.digikey.com/
and search on 'B3262'
apply a filter to specify value and/or voltage, or simply hit 'viewpage'
click on one of the Digikey part #s, then the catalog/technical info, and you can pull the pdf.

That being said, what should be best from a technical perspective is often not prefferable from a subjective view. When I bypass 'accross the line' with that final .01uf cap, I've found an Auricap prefferable to a RelCap RT/RTX or stacked plate mica, with better technical specs. Go figure.

Tangentally, when I talked to Audience and asked why they didn't bypass their own Auricaps (average of .47uf) within their own Adept powerconditioner, they acknowledged that additional bypassing with a .1 and .01uf worked quite well, and simply said the single caps(s) were adequate for their market and didn't go further for manufacturing cost reasons. [also, it diminishes that warm cuddley tonality in favor of resolution]

sjmikeb · « **Reply #197 on:** 23 Oct 2005, 09:23 pm »

Paul,

Thanks for the link.

BTW, I am going to play some more with the AC line caps. As you saw from the post above, I did a few things at once, so I can't really determine what the effects of each mod were.

Yikes, the adept box is a high ticket item. I can't believe some more caps would effect their bottom line, and I wouldn't think it is a high volume product so saviings is meaningful.

Ron, I guess after what I am hearing out of the player I would be willing to spring for a clock upgrade. But first, I am going to take a look at the signal. I will post my findings after I do, but it won't be for a few weeks. I will get some digital photos off the scope when I do.

Regards,
Mike

rhale64 · « **Reply #198 on:** 23 Oct 2005, 11:10 pm »

Sounds great Mike. I cant wait for your observations. I just remembered the question got brought up about the clock in these things. I wonder if it is any good? Or is it just a through away?

I may consider one of those bypass caps.

BobM · « **Reply #199 on:** 24 Oct 2005, 08:25 pm »

Ah ha - here is the post I remembered reading about Shottky vs Hexfred's:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=20682&highlight=

This should answer any questions you may have on the issue.

Enjoy,
Bob