New tonearm by Touraj Moghaddam

toocool4 · « **on:** 22 Jan 2014, 02:51 pm »

Have you guys seen the new tonearm by Touraj Moghaddam one of the founders of Roksan Audio.

The tonearm is $35,000. See an interview with Touraj here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_LYePY07_c

He has a new company called Vertere http://www.vertereacoustics.com/news

Chaos32 · « **Reply #1 on:** 23 Jan 2014, 01:21 am »

A very good sounding arm...pity its priced out of range for mere mortals.

JoshK · « **Reply #2 on:** 23 Jan 2014, 01:27 am »

Down payment for a house in most of the midwest (5 houses in flint). How ridiculous has this hobby become?! I mean, take a $5K arm, how much better can it be, I sure as hell won't claim I can hear that.

jimdgoulding · « **Reply #3 on:** 23 Jan 2014, 02:06 am »

Not

. Toys for the obsessive/compulsive in need of a trust manager.

neobop · « **Reply #4 on:** 23 Jan 2014, 04:36 am »

Quote from: Chaos32 on 23 Jan 2014, 01:21 am

A very good sounding arm...pity its priced out of range for mere mortals.

Hi, welcome to the monkey house.
Have you heard the arm?

Seems like the only real innovation is aligning the pivots with the offset rather than the armtube. Looks like a nonstandard connector in the bottom so you have to use their cable. The price is ridiculous.
neo

jimdgoulding · « **Reply #5 on:** 23 Jan 2014, 04:56 am »

Quote from: neobop on 23 Jan 2014, 04:36 am

Hi, welcome to the monkey house.
Have you heard the arm?

Seems like the only real innovation is aligning the pivots with the offset rather than the armtube. Looks like a nonstandard connector in the bottom so you have to use their cable. The price is ridiculous.
neo

First time I've heard OF it, Neo, and couldn't care less if I ever do again. It's outta my realm of comprehension for starters, and I happen to believe that my comprehension can be trusted. And, if I am missing something, the maker and his minions would be hard pressed to show me that my appreciation of music and its reproduction in my listening environment could be improved commensurate with anywhere near it's cost. It's for cost-is-no-object and irrational sorts, imo.

Whoops! Your reply wasn't to me, Neo. Oh, well.

neobop · « **Reply #6 on:** 23 Jan 2014, 05:09 am »

I can appreciate your attitude Jim. This arm is the price of a Lexus 350. Chaos32 said it's a nice sounding arm and I was wondering if he could tell us more about it.

I read the sales brochure or whatever it was. There's a link within the second link above. The part about orienting the pivots to the offset is interesting. The horizontal arm mass will coincide with the cart rather than the armtube.
neo

toocool4 · « **Reply #7 on:** 23 Jan 2014, 10:08 am »

You guys are looking at this all wrong, you cannot compare a tonearm to a car or a house they are different things altogether.

Everything on the cutting edge are always expensive, but if it’s that good the technology will trickle down eventually that we well all get the benefit.

Take a look at tech like ABS, Traction Control etc they came from Formula 1 and who knows how many millions it took to develop them but now we all enjoy the benefit at a fraction of the original cost.

I for one would like to hear and see for myself if it’s an improvement over current tonearms, I may not be able to afford it but it’s always nice to know what is possible.

neobop · « **Reply #8 on:** 23 Jan 2014, 12:49 pm »

Quote from: toocool4 on 23 Jan 2014, 10:08 am

You guys are looking at this all wrong, you cannot compare a tonearm to a car or a house they are different things altogether.

Everything on the cutting edge are always expensive, but if it’s that good the technology will trickle down eventually that we well all get the benefit.

Take a look at tech like ABS, Traction Control etc they came from Formula 1 and who knows how many millions it took to develop them but now we all enjoy the benefit at a fraction of the original cost.

I for one would like to hear and see for myself if it’s an improvement over current tonearms, I may not be able to afford it but it’s always nice to know what is possible.

Thanks for bringing this to our attention. It is interesting, but no one is comparing it to a house or a car. Just the absurd price. After all, it's just a pivoting tonearm. Does it eliminate alignment error?

The PDF with the information is really a sales brochure. Beside the pivot alignment, it also has some kind of non-rotating metal film bearings. That uses up the potential for ground breaking technology. Oh, it also has a switchable cueing light. I think all the other feature have been done before. Maybe other designs will incorporate similar bearings or pivot alignment if the future. In that respect you could be right.
neo

toocool4 · « **Reply #9 on:** 23 Jan 2014, 01:09 pm »

Quote from: neobop on 23 Jan 2014, 12:49 pm

It is interesting, but no one is comparing it to a house or a car.

Quote from: neobop on 23 Jan 2014, 05:09 am

This arm is the price of a Lexus 350.

Unless the Lexus 350 is a new tonearm I have not heard of before, then it’s a comparison to a car.

Quote from: JoshK on 23 Jan 2014, 01:27 am

Down payment for a house in most of the midwest (5 houses in flint).

That is a comparison to a house or 5

if I’m not mistaken.

macrojack · « **Reply #10 on:** 23 Jan 2014, 01:33 pm »

toocool4 - You seem to be reading something in that was not said by either neobop nor JoshK. Both guys said politely and in terms that were plain to me that the PRICE of the tonearm is comparable to the price of a car or certain houses. There was no comment offered about physical properties or visual similarities. Nothing was said about function, feel, failure or success. All they said was that the PRICE was similar --- not the product.

And I too think the price is ridiculous. It doesn't matter what it is made of, what it does or who makes it. There is no realistic justification for the price and the market will soon make that abundantly clear. Of course, that does not mean he won't sell any. It always seem that someone needs another gold plated gimmick to complete their collection.

catastrofe · « **Reply #11 on:** 23 Jan 2014, 01:36 pm »

Quote from: macrojack on 23 Jan 2014, 01:33 pm

toocool4 - You seem to be reading something in that was not said by either neobop nor JoshK. Both guys said politely and in terms that were plain to me that the PRICE of the tonearm is comparable to the price of a car or certain houses. There was no comment offered about physical properties or visual similarities. Nothing was said about function, feel, failure or success. All they said was that the PRICE was similar --- not the product.

And I too think the price is ridiculous. It doesn't matter what it is made of, what it does or who makes it. There is no realistic justification for the price and the market will soon make that abundantly clear. Of course, that does not mean he won't sell any. It always seem that someone needs another gold plated gimmick to complete their collection.

What he said!

toocool4 · « **Reply #12 on:** 23 Jan 2014, 02:00 pm »

Quote from: macrojack on 23 Jan 2014, 01:33 pm

toocool4 - You seem to be reading something in that was not said by either neobop nor JoshK. Both guys said politely and in terms that were plain to me that the PRICE of the tonearm is comparable to the price of a car or certain houses. There was no comment offered about physical properties or visual similarities. Nothing was said about function, feel, failure or success. All they said was that the PRICE was similar --- not the product.

And I too think the price is ridiculous. It doesn't matter what it is made of, what it does or who makes it. There is no realistic justification for the price and the market will soon make that abundantly clear. Of course, that does not mean he won't sell any. It always seem that someone needs another gold plated gimmick to complete their collection.

Then why bring it up in the conversation, if it’s not a comparison?
I could just as easily say going for a good meal the price is similar to a good pair of shoes, but I would not say that as it has no relevance and the 2 are not related. Instead I would just say the price of that meal is a bit high.

jimdgoulding · « **Reply #13 on:** 23 Jan 2014, 02:54 pm »

Well, TC, that's you and I'm certainly cool with dat just like I am with the Bopster.

srb · « **Reply #14 on:** 23 Jan 2014, 03:43 pm »

I'm sure some of the few owners of this tonearm might consider pairing it with the Danish Vitus Audio MP-P201 phono preamplifier ($60K), but what motorized rotating platter would be deserving of its mounting bolts?

Steve

toocool4 · « **Reply #15 on:** 23 Jan 2014, 03:51 pm »

Quote from: srb on 23 Jan 2014, 03:43 pm

I'm sure some of the few owners of this tonearm might consider pairing it with the Danish Vitus Audio MP-P201 phono preamplifier ($60K), but what motorized rotating platter would be deserving of its mounting bolts?

Steve

Maybe a Continuum Caliburn turntable?

neobop · « **Reply #16 on:** 23 Jan 2014, 05:31 pm »

I thought the Continuum Caliburn came with the Cobra Tonearm. Maybe it's available separately, but it doesn't matter. There are other extremely expensive components out there and now this arm is one of them. I think you'll always get a similar reaction whether you're talking about a $60K phono stage or a $35K tonearm.

Toocool4, you object to comparisons with the price of other things, yet your analogy is trickle down technology like that of ABS or traction control. Maybe we all can stop confusing perceived value with performance. Do you know of anything that will further enlighten us about this arm?
neo

woodsyi · « **Reply #17 on:** 23 Jan 2014, 06:08 pm »

I won't compare it to anything.

I was curious to see if there was any new breakthrough and viewed the video. What he said didn't impress me to the tune of 35k. I would want to listen to it in action compared to another known arm before making any judgement. But if I had to guess from what he said on the video, I would personally value it at about 7k based on the fact that it's a finely machined product of non-ground breaking principles like many others.

BobM · « **Reply #18 on:** 23 Jan 2014, 07:09 pm »

I'm sure he had significant research costs that need to be covered. So if he sells 3 of these he's probably mostly covered. If he priced it at $7K he needs to compete with several other very good arms, essentially saying his product is comperable to them, then sell 15 arms.

Sometimes cost is more related to prestige pricing rather than value pricing, especially in this out of control hobby. I can't remember the last time I bought something "new" at retail. There's always some kind of discount applied, and the used market is often 40-50% below retail.

It's kind of like college costs these days. The official advertized cost is usually supplemented with grants that significantly reduce what you think you might have to pay.

toocool4 · « **Reply #19 on:** 23 Jan 2014, 10:24 pm »

Quote from: neobop on 23 Jan 2014, 05:31 pm

I thought the Continuum Caliburn came with the Cobra Tonearm. Maybe it's available separately, but it doesn't matter. There are other extremely expensive components out there and now this arm is one of them. I think you'll always get a similar reaction whether you're talking about a $60K phono stage or a $35K tonearm.

Toocool4, you object to comparisons with the price of other things, yet your analogy is trickle down technology like that of ABS or traction control. Maybe we all can stop confusing perceived value with performance. Do you know of anything that will further enlighten us about this arm?
neo

I am not confusing perceived value with performance, hopefully at that price it will perform.

No I do not know anymore about the tonearm. I would like to know more, as in listen to one so I can make up my own mind.