[macrojack]

Yup! too cool seems to be vested given his aggressive impatience with dissenting comments.

Both he and tone pub need to understand that this is an open forum and that any member has the right to offer an opinion on topics presented here. This right is not measured or modulated according to affluence, ignorance or agreement with posters assertions. Likewise, each opinion offered is subject to evaluation and rebuttal to determine a consensus as to its value. That's where qualification comes into play.

In the car analogy, it was stated that you could buy a Lexus for the same $35,000. No one is likely to suggest that there is more material cost in the arm. Also unlikely anyone would claim the arm required more R&D time or a greater amount of technology. Certainly the Lexus requires more labor and higher transportation expense.
Just what is it about this tonearm that justifies its price to a prospective buyer? Is it just the fact that the Lexus won't play an LP? Well neither will the arm without considerably more expense for table and cartridge.

[*Scotty*]

Assuming it has no equal among its pivoted brethren in absolute performance terms, it also has to equal or beat the best air-bearing tonearms currently available. These tonearms are in descending order of price; Kuzma Air Line $11,950, Eminent Technology ET 2.5 Tonearm $4,500 as of 2009, The Cartridge Man "Conductor" tonearm at approximately $2486.73.
 In my opinion, at this price it has to be unequivocally the best performer out of all available tonearm technologies or why bother.
Scotty
 

[jimdgoulding]

I imagine, Scotty, that its proponents think it is.  Can't help but wonder how objective they are.  But, when you think about it, who infallibly is.

[toocool4]

Toocool,
I admit to being initially snowed by the PDF, claiming different effective length in the vertical and horizontal plains.  Once it was pointed out that offset pivots are more common than not, it was easy to visualize on numerous arms.  3rd or 4th hand fact has nothing to do with it. 

Did you expect to open a thread like this and no one talk about the price?   
It doesn't matter what your intent was, people can say what they want. 
neo

Yes I expected people would talk about the price and that is not a problem.

Saying “I think because it's disappointing.” Implies you have heard it, I know you did not say you had heard it but someone can misread it as such.
I don’t doubt Chaos32’s word.

I have read many reviews saying a product X is amazing or product Y is not good, but one thing I don’t do is repeat it to someone else as I don’t have first hand experience.

A lot of this kind of misinformation goes round on the Internet and before you know it, it’s gospel that product X is amazing and product Y is not good. All of this is being propagated round by people that have not had any experience of product X or Y.

[neobop]

Yes I expected people would talk about the price and that is not a problem.

Saying “I think because it's disappointing.” Implies you have heard it, I know you did not say you had heard it but someone can misread it as such.
I don’t doubt Chaos32’s word.

I have read many reviews saying a product X is amazing or product Y is not good, but one thing I don’t do is repeat it to someone else as I don’t have first hand experience.

A lot of this kind of misinformation goes round on the Internet and before you know it, it’s gospel that product X is amazing and product Y is not good. All of this is being propagated round by people that have not had any experience of product X or Y.

Are you serious? 

From page 1 of this thread you told us we were looking at it wrong:  "You guys are looking at this all wrong, you cannot compare a tonearm to a car or a house they are different things altogether.

Everything on the cutting edge are always expensive, but if it’s that good the technology will trickle down eventually that we well all get the benefit.

Take a look at tech like ABS, Traction Control etc they came from Formula 1 and who knows how many millions it took to develop them but now we all enjoy the benefit at a fraction of the original cost.

I for one would like to hear and see for myself if it’s an improvement over current tonearms, I may not be able to afford it but it’s always nice to know what is possible."

No one was comparing it to a house or car, only the price of it.  Then to top it off, you talk about automotive trickle down technology.

In no way did I imply I've heard the arm and you know it.  I was responding to Ericus Rex and the quote was on the top of my post.  All Chaos32 said was the arm sounds good and I still don't doubt him.  Lots of arms can sound good.  Someone on the Audiogon thread heard the arm.  If I repeat what he said, an opinion, would I be spreading misinformation? 

John Curl said he couldn't find 2 examples of the same MC cart that sound the same.  That happens to be true, that he said it.  I can't confirm it factually so I shouldn't repeat it? 

Do you have an interest in this company, vested or otherwise?
neo

[toocool4]

Do you have an interest in this company, vested or otherwise?
neo

No

[JackD201]

I can't afford it ergo I couldn't buy it even if it is "all that"  BUT if given a chance, I sure would like to try it.

I really don't understand all the moral indignation towards highly priced products. Maybe I would if there weren't very good products within the reach of everybody for everybody. Well, that isn't the case now is it. I don't see why I should whine when I get to listen to music I like sounding the way I like it with an arm that I scored second hand for less than a tenth of the Vertere. I also don't understand why we should think guys that buy it should be called posers or trophy hunters.

In my mind, if you work hard, serve your community and are basically just good to people you have every right to buy something that does nobody harm even if it's sole purpose is to give yourself a little pat on the back now and then.

[Chaos32]

Guys, if my remarks cause contention..I would be more then happy to remove it.

[woodsyi]

Guys, if my remarks cause contention..I would be more then happy to remove it.

You are fine.  Contentious thread is fine as long as everyone is civil contending. Opinions vary; that's OK.

[jimdgoulding]

You are fine.  Contentious thread is fine as long as everyone is civil contending. Opinions vary; that's OK.

Totally agree.

[toocool4]

Guys, if my remarks cause contention..I would be more then happy to remove it.

Your remark is not a problem at all 

[J-Pak]

Schroeder LT looks like a very interesting tonearm, personally I am not a fan of the complexity of air pumps. You can see the pivot movement in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYqcQl5pLgU

[woodsyi]

Schroeder LT looks like a very interesting tonearm, personally I am not a fan of the complexity of air pumps. You can see the pivot movement in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYqcQl5pLgU

Starting at 1:55 for the arm.

[woodsyi]

I have also been keeping a tap on http://clearaudio.de/en/products/tonearms-tt2.php.  It is supposed to have a lot less issues than the last model.  It's list 10k but if a used one surfaces for < than 6k .... 

[neobop]

There's a new pivoting arm from Germany, Axiom.   VTA is set at the pivots, SRA at the headshell.  12" 
http://www.vanaltd.com/as-axiom.html

$16K

neo

[Minn Mark]

Makes the VPI printed arm inexpensive (almost said cheap ! ) by comparison. Would love to hear one of those, or from an AC'er who has taken that plunge...

Great comments. Not offended in the least.

Stay warm !

Minn Mark

[neobop]

Regarding those mysterious polymer-metal film laminate, frictionless pivots, they're probably Flex Pivot Bearings.
http://www.flexpivots.com/

neo

[xsb7244]

To make this thread complete here is the review.

http://www.monoandstereo.com/2015/02/vertere-reference-tonearm-review.html

What we need is a tonearm shoot out.  Same turntable different tonearms.