High quality desk top speaker? Full range drivers...

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mlundy57

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Re: High quality desk top speaker? Full range drivers...
« Reply #300 on: 20 Jan 2014, 10:50 pm »
Sonic Craft is out of the .1uF Platinum's. I have two left. $55 each for those caps. You can then with them directly into your amp input or pre-amp output. That is the cheapest way.

I don't want to make any physical changes to the amp. That leaves making an inline filter. I understand about soldering the cap's leads to the center terminal of the RCA jack and plug then soldering a wire to the negative points on each. However, that would be a very flimsy piece of hardware that would break easily. The case you use for the Serenity 7 looks special made for the purpose. Trying to figure out what I could use to accomplish the same thing but without the bypass.

I think I have a way to build it but it would be a little bulky. Based on the picture of the filter for the Serenity 7 I was thinking I needed 1 male and 1 female RCA connector. However, I think I could do this with 2 female RCA jacks for each filter. I could build a small box (3/16" or 1/4" material), drill a hole in the ends to mount the connectors then solder the cap and ground wire to the connectors then screw or glue on a lid. I guess I could put both channels in the same housing. Again bulky but maybe not as much as with 2 separate boxes.

Would there be enough heat buildup inside a box like this to require ventilation?

What type of RCA connectors would you recommend?

Mike

JeffB

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Re: High quality desk top speaker? Full range drivers...
« Reply #301 on: 20 Jan 2014, 11:12 pm »
I have some interest in these.  However, what I am really after is something to hookup to my TV for both TV watching and concert video watching.  I like the idea of single drivers for basic TV dialog.  I think the midrange/tweeter integration messes up the critical speech range too much.  However, I want something of very high audio quality.

Do you have any thoughts on how this driver compares to something like a Fostex FF85WK or Alpair 6p?  I also don't really want to mention any competitors in this forum, but I think most of the readers are probably aware of a couple of popular single driver fully built speakers in the $500 to $800 dollar range.  Do these little $25 speakers stand a chance against these?  I would understand if you don't care to comment on this last question.

I also desire a good bottom end to around 30Hz.
Since some sort of subwoofer integration is required, I am partial to a sealed enclosure for the bookshelf speaker, since I hear that integration is easier that way.  Note, I don't desire to listen above about 85db average.

Finally, I like the idea of being able to place the bookshelves speakers on top of the subwoofers.  I have heard that this is not ideal from a vibration stand point, but I am not crazy about the idea of buying stands.  It seems stands would cost more than these bookshelves.  Plus, I like the idea of co-locating the subs with the main driver.  I think if cross-over around 100 to 120Hz or so, that co-location may be important for proper phase and timing.  If the cross-over were lower then I could see placing the subs wherever in the room they seem to work the best.

Thoughts on any of the above are welcome.

Wig

Re: High quality desk top speaker? Full range drivers...
« Reply #302 on: 20 Jan 2014, 11:19 pm »
I'm looking for a plug and play solution for my desktop computer; wanting something better than the Logitech...

Wig :D

devinkato

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Re: High quality desk top speaker? Full range drivers...
« Reply #303 on: 20 Jan 2014, 11:37 pm »
Do you have any thoughts on how this driver compares to something like a Fostex FF85WK or Alpair 6p?  I also don't really want to mention any competitors in this forum, but I think most of the readers are probably aware of a couple of popular single driver fully built speakers in the $500 to $800 dollar range.  Do these little $25 speakers stand a chance against these?  I would understand if you don't care to comment on this last question.

This will be difficult for anyone outside of Danny to currently comment on since they're not erleased yet.  However, judging by Danny's other work, I really trust his judgement in drivers' cost to performance value.

For example, his M-165 woofers cost under 30 bucks.  I've listened to variants of them in an N2X, and a AV-1, and they easily sound as good as other midwoofers costing 3x more (Seas/Vifa/etc.). 

Granted, these impressions are reflective of Danny's crossover work as well, but I would not let the $$ game color your judgement.  There seems to be a lot of smoke and mirrors in the full range area (I've heard some very terrible Fostex designs), so I'm glad that someone with an empirical objective approach is bringing something to the market.

Danny Richie

Re: High quality desk top speaker? Full range drivers...
« Reply #304 on: 21 Jan 2014, 12:47 am »
Sorry for the noob question, but what is the filter for, and what are tube connectors?

Anytime you have a woofer mounted in a box of any size there is a baffle step loss. The smaller the cabinet the higher up in frequency range the loss. So a very simply circuit is used to compensate for it and balance the frequency response to a nice accurate measurement.

See tube connectors: http://www.electracable.com/tubeconnector.htm  Beats any binding post made.

Danny Richie

Re: High quality desk top speaker? Full range drivers...
« Reply #305 on: 21 Jan 2014, 01:01 am »
I don't want to make any physical changes to the amp. That leaves making an inline filter. I understand about soldering the cap's leads to the center terminal of the RCA jack and plug then soldering a wire to the negative points on each. However, that would be a very flimsy piece of hardware that would break easily. The case you use for the Serenity 7 looks special made for the purpose. Trying to figure out what I could use to accomplish the same thing but without the bypass.

I made some inline filters with a Vampire Wire male and female connectors. The cap is inline and the grounds are connected. I then put some heavy heat shrink over it. Very sturdy and works great.

Quote
I think I have a way to build it but it would be a little bulky. Based on the picture of the filter for the Serenity 7 I was thinking I needed 1 male and 1 female RCA connector.

Yes, that way you can plug it right into the back of your amp.

Quote
However, I think I could do this with 2 female RCA jacks for each filter.


If you do that then you'll need another set of interconnects, and a good set of interconnects will cost more than a filter with Sonicap Platinum's in it. You also want to minimize the connections.

Quote
I could build a small box (3/16" or 1/4" material), drill a hole in the ends to mount the connectors then solder the cap and ground wire to the connectors then screw or glue on a lid. I guess I could put both channels in the same housing. Again bulky but maybe not as much as with 2 separate boxes.

Just an inline filter with Heat Shrink will be good.

Quote
Would there be enough heat buildup inside a box like this to require ventilation?

There is none.

Quote
What type of RCA connectors would you recommend?

Depends on the quality of the rest of your system. I use some pretty pricey (but to too pricey) connectors from Cardas on the Serenity stuff. The Vampire Continuous Caste Copper ones are a favorite of mine too. But you can use some fairly inexpensive ones too. It wouldn't make sense to use some $200 ends on it if your pre-amp and amp have some $2. cheapies. All of my gear has high quality ends on everything. So I would never go for cheap and cheesy on a filter that my whole signal passes through.

Danny Richie

Re: High quality desk top speaker? Full range drivers...
« Reply #306 on: 21 Jan 2014, 01:18 am »
I have some interest in these.  However, what I am really after is something to hookup to my TV for both TV watching and concert video watching.  I like the idea of single drivers for basic TV dialog.  I think the midrange/tweeter integration messes up the critical speech range too much.  However, I want something of very high audio quality.

I like the simplicity of it. Usually no matter how good the single drivers are a good two way design really stomps it, especially in the upper ranges. In this case though, these things will hold their own with some of the best dome tweeters.

Since the heart of the vocal region is in the 300Hz to 500Hz range I find it quite easy for a two way design to nail that region. What is more rear is to find a three way design that nails it. One of the biggest mistakes I see in three way designs is a high woofer to mid crossover point in the vocal region.

Quote
Do you have any thoughts on how this driver compares to something like a Fostex FF85WK or Alpair 6p?  I also don't really want to mention any competitors in this forum, but I think most of the readers are probably aware of a couple of popular single driver fully built speakers in the $500 to $800 dollar range
.

Sure. I test lots of wide band drivers all the time. Most people would be surprised how many different types and brands I have over here.



If I didn't feel like these were a significant improvement over the norm then I would have no interest in having them made.

Quote
Do these little $25 speakers stand a chance against these?  I would understand if you don't care to comment on this last question.

Well, for one, the introductory price on these is $29. I may later offer them at $34 a piece as that will help cover the cost of getting them here. Don't let the price fool you. Often a higher price just means too many hands in the pot. I guess I could just have them made 25 or 50 units at a time and pay double for them. Prices are much more reasonable when you order 500 units at a time. Or I guess I could build in a dealer margin like the drivers mentioned above and let them add their 40 to 50 points onto them as well.

No, I think I like the idea of no middlemen and buy in high quantities to keep my cost down and the customers cost down.

Quote
I also desire a good bottom end to around 30Hz.Since some sort of subwoofer integration is required, I am partial to a sealed enclosure for the bookshelf speaker, since I hear that integration is easier that way.  Note, I don't desire to listen above about 85db average.

I'll have some 8" servo subs (with amps) available before this production run of drivers land. I don't guess one could ask for a better sounding small sub...

Quote
Finally, I like the idea of being able to place the bookshelves speakers on top of the subwoofers.  I have heard that this is not ideal from a vibration stand point, but I am not crazy about the idea of buying stands.

This is true. From a vibration stand point and because the best place in the room for a sub is not necessarily where your speakers are and visa versa. 

Quote
It seems stands would cost more than these bookshelves.  Plus, I like the idea of co-locating the subs with the main driver.  I think if cross-over around 100 to 120Hz or so, that co-location may be important for proper phase and timing.  If the cross-over were lower then I could see placing the subs wherever in the room they seem to work the best.

You can set your subs crossover point to around 80Hz with these. So they don't have to be right up on the speakers.

JeffB

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Re: High quality desk top speaker? Full range drivers...
« Reply #307 on: 21 Jan 2014, 01:31 am »
Ok, sounds good. 
But what about a sealed design vs ported when integrating with a subwoofer?

Bob in St. Louis

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Re: High quality desk top speaker? Full range drivers...
« Reply #308 on: 21 Jan 2014, 01:33 am »
Danny, thank you for the explanation.

Danny Richie

Re: High quality desk top speaker? Full range drivers...
« Reply #309 on: 21 Jan 2014, 01:41 am »
Ok, sounds good. 
But what about a sealed design vs ported when integrating with a subwoofer?

They sound great sealed. But a sealed design does not play down as low. -3db will be in the 140Hz range. So in a sealed application they really need to be used with an additional low frequency driver.

mlundy57

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Re: High quality desk top speaker? Full range drivers...
« Reply #310 on: 21 Jan 2014, 02:10 am »
I made some inline filters with a Vampire Wire male and female connectors. The cap is inline and the grounds are connected. I then put some heavy heat shrink over it. Very sturdy and works great.

Yes, that way you can plug it right into the back of your amp.
 

If you do that then you'll need another set of interconnects, and a good set of interconnects will cost more than a filter with Sonicap Platinum's in it. You also want to minimize the connections.

Just an inline filter with Heat Shrink will be good.

There is none.

Depends on the quality of the rest of your system. I use some pretty pricey (but to too pricey) connectors from Cardas on the Serenity stuff. The Vampire Continuous Caste Copper ones are a favorite of mine too. But you can use some fairly inexpensive ones too. It wouldn't make sense to use some $200 ends on it if your pre-amp and amp have some $2. cheapies. All of my gear has high quality ends on everything. So I would never go for cheap and cheesy on a filter that my whole signal passes through.

Thanks Danny

I'm going to try building a couple of these filters like you described and see how they come out. Since my NAD C372 amp was $1,000 new I doubt it has $2 cheapie connectors however, I also don't think it has high really end connectors. The specs just say "gold plated RCA connectors".

The only Vampire female connectors I could find were $16 a pair. It doesn't make sense to put a high end male connector on one end if the other end has an $8 female connector. So given that these filters are going to have $8 connectors going into a an 8 year old $1,000 (when new) amp would there be any benefit to the .1uF platinum caps over Gen II caps?

If you think my amp could do the platinum caps justice do you have any more appropriate connectors?  I know you said you could build the Serenity 7 style filter for $100 ea but I'm a little worried about the width of that design and the space on the back of my amp. I think the straight design with heat shrink and no bypass you described would work better for me.

Mike

Danny Richie

Re: High quality desk top speaker? Full range drivers...
« Reply #311 on: 21 Jan 2014, 03:33 am »
Quote
So given that these filters are going to have $8 connectors going into a an 8 year old $1,000 (when new) amp would there be any benefit to the .1uF platinum caps over Gen II caps?

I don't know that you would hear that much of a difference in the connectors in your system, but no doubt about the difference in the Platinum caps verses the Gen.2's.

Here are my favorite male plugs: http://vampirewire.com/viewitem.php?productid=14

They sound better if you leave off the barrel connector. So I used to order a bunch of them minus the barrel.

And these are my favorite female connectors: http://vampirewire.com/viewitem.php?productid=29

Adds up quick doesn't it?

mlundy57

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Re: High quality desk top speaker? Full range drivers...
« Reply #312 on: 21 Jan 2014, 03:48 am »
Yep it sure does.

So the heatshrink will hold the chassis mount female plugs sturdy enough that plugging and unplugging them will not break the connections to either the cap or the ground wire?

Mike

Danny Richie

Re: High quality desk top speaker? Full range drivers...
« Reply #313 on: 21 Jan 2014, 04:09 am »
Yep it sure does.

So the heatshrink will hold the chassis mount female plugs sturdy enough that plugging and unplugging them will not break the connections to either the cap or the ground wire?

Mike

After you make the connections you can always fill them with hot glue then heat shrink. That will make it solid.

dknywinnie

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Re: High quality desk top speaker? Full range drivers...
« Reply #314 on: 21 Jan 2014, 05:25 pm »
Got a couple of flat packs but just missed the coupon. Will try it on a Dayton Audio DTA-100a Class-T amp once they're assembled.

baniels

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Re: High quality desk top speaker? Full range drivers...
« Reply #315 on: 21 Jan 2014, 05:42 pm »
You grabbed the last two!

All 16 from the first batch are shipping today.

Got a couple of flat packs but just missed the coupon. Will try it on a Dayton Audio DTA-100a Class-T amp once they're assembled.

Hank

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Re: High quality desk top speaker? Full range drivers...
« Reply #316 on: 21 Jan 2014, 05:57 pm »
Danny wrote: 
Quote
The only way to smooth out the lower range was to move the port to the back.
Then these can't be used against a wall (on-wall or soundbars).  Okay, maybe a future multi-way design could employ a front port or could be a sealed design.

Danny Richie

Re: High quality desk top speaker? Full range drivers...
« Reply #317 on: 21 Jan 2014, 06:14 pm »
Danny wrote:  Then these can't be used against a wall (on-wall or soundbars).  Okay, maybe a future multi-way design could employ a front port or could be a sealed design.

Oh, I'll figure out something for an on wall or sound bar. I might fire the port out to the side or something.

dknywinnie

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Re: High quality desk top speaker? Full range drivers...
« Reply #318 on: 21 Jan 2014, 07:43 pm »
Danny, 

Are you going to put the kits at: http://gr-research.com/diykits.aspx?

Danny Richie

Re: High quality desk top speaker? Full range drivers...
« Reply #319 on: 21 Jan 2014, 07:52 pm »