[Don_S]

It's cute.  I like it. 

Nothing fancy but does the job for your first foray into computer audio.

http://www.officemax.com/technology/computers/desktop-computers/product-prod4570696

Can't build one for that and can use a KVM to share the keyboard, monitor, mouse with another PC in the house. 

Later if you want to move up to a better sound card, etc, that's fine but for $300, this is tough to beat.

Bryan

[bpape]

Was rebuilding my server after a crash and came across this. Can't buy the parts to rebuild for what this costs.  I just stream over the network anyway so this is working fine for me. If using a USB out direct to a DAC, I might not feel the same way.

Bryan

[Don_S]

Maybe I should resurrect my old, slooooowwww, Dell XP tower just to get started. All I would need would be a DAC. I might be able to borrow one. I would not have to commit to external storage (Windows or PC format) yet. Of course I could only use demo software for a limited time and I would not want to load too many CDs.

That might help me get the technique down but still wonder about the results.

Pro and cons?

[mcgsxr]

I am still wondering how you intend to connect your server to your system.

If you intend on using a USB DAC, then you likely will have the server IN the room with the system.  That will soon have you wondering how to make the server quiet.  I put the server in my media closet, with the amps etc, so no noise in the room.

If you intend on using a streaming audio device (Logitech Duet or other) then use the old Dell by all means.

It does not take much processor power to play music, but 2GB RAM is helpful I have found.

I have never used JRiver, so I cannot comment on that.  I have used Logitech Media Server s/w for around 10 years, and have no issue with it myself.

[Scott F.]

Hi Don,

I'd go that route first. If you aren't too worried about sound quality and just want to check out ripping, playing and the JRiver interface, just use your existing sound card. It won't do all the audiophile things a good DAC does but it will sound fine for demo purposes.

I've not looked to see if anyone (like Chris over at the ComputerAudiophile site) has publish a Quick Start Set Up Guide or not. When you install JRiver, you'll want to go into the menus and drill down as there are quite a few parameters you can adjust like sampling rates, file locations, EQ settings (if you wish), meta tagging params, those kind of things. Once set, you don't need to worry about them again. After that, just start ripping some of your favorite CDs. Be sure to rip several from the same bands so you can see the graphical interface.

...as I think about it, XP...you may need to load ASIO as part of JRiver. I'd check their WIKI to see if it's required, it may or may not be.

[Don_S]

Mark,

I planned on co-locating.  I know, another vote for the quiet Mac Mini.

My Dell only has a mini-phono plug output on the sound card. I assume the other USB outputs won't be connected to the sound card or will they?

Scott, OH NO!!! Not ASIOs and WIKIs.   

[JRace]

Usb outputs are independant of the sound card.

Xp box would be fine to start. I use an old xp box with db power amp as my cd ripping station (with a kodak cd robot i can rip 100 cds per hour!).

You can run usb out to a dac, or even stream to an applicible device.

If it was me, i would install db power amp to rip the music, rip it all to un compressed FLAC.
Use Foobar (free and high quality) to playback the music.

It is really not that hard!

[Scott F.]

Not sure you're really in a position to make this statement (it demonstrates your ignorance). 
[snip]
Personally, I think it was a brilliant decision, but what do I know?  I just write software for a living.

Aw gee Wally, it looks like I stepped on somebody's toes. I didn't mean to...really. Me and Lumpy have just been playing with the Squeezebox since...well...2005 I think. We've collected four so far along with four...no, five more USB DACs. Now some guy tells me I don't know what I'm talking about. He said I was...ig eer net. He must know what he's talking about. He writes software for a living. Hey Wally, what's software?


OK, enough of the puerile response. I'll be more direct.
I thought about doing a side by side comparison of the features of each platform but as I thought about it, it's WAY too much work. So I'll simply point you to a couple of Wikis and you can see for yourself which program is more feature rich not only as an interface but also sound quality.

http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Category:Frequently_Asked_Questions

http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/Logitech_Media_Server

So, bottom line,
JRiver = decent software
Logitech Media Server = crap




Don, sorry about this post and crapping on your thread. I couldn't let those comments pass.

[Bob in St. Louis]

Personally, I think it was a brilliant decision, but what do I know?  I just write software for a living.

I wish you would have written software for Logitech. Maybe the various "SqueezeUnits" wouldn't be on the archive shelf at this point. I was frustrated to the point of banishing my beloved Bolder modded SB3 and my Duet to the disabled list, and all but quit listening to lossless music in my house due to the horrible software issues created by Logitech Media Server.

For the past few months, the best music in my house comes from a tablet streaming (low quality) Pandora directly to a 25 year old Sony receiver into open baffle speakers in my dusty workshop.
My Logitech devices are standing by idle, due to my frustration with their Mother Ship. 
The hardware is spectacular. The GUI is...well.....glitchy, buggy, not user friendly, and frankly frustrating to the point where I quit using it.

Based on recent Squeezebox sales, I'm thinking I wasn't the only one to give up. But I don't write software for a living, so what do I know?   

Bob

[Scott F.]

My Dell only has a mini-phono plug output on the sound card. I assume the other USB outputs won't be connected to the sound card or will they?

Scott, OH NO!!! Not ASIOs and WIKIs.   

Hey Don,

Know what? I wasn't thinking. If you are just using the 1/8" out of the sound card, you don't need ASIO Just tell JRiver to stream to the sound card.

JRace, I thought about Foobar and EAC or DB Poweramp but the reason I recommended JRiver is because of the all-in-one aspect of the software. He won't have to use multiple programs. I still use Foobar on a couple of machines and its pretty bulletproof and sounds good to boot.

[jarcher]

Don : if you decide to buy that mac mini, I think along w/ the ipad you'll have +90% of what you'll need to have a satisfactory + easy to use music / media server.

1.  Mac Mini

2.  Itunes media library software (usually comes free & preloaded w/ all Macs).  If it's missing, you can download it for free.  It's the music / media library + player software.  Just load your cds (w/ the admittedly annoying but cheap external USB dvd drive) and itunes will automatically rip it + store it to your hard drive / library, along with all the meta data, artwork, etc.  I suggest you first go to preferences & tell it you want all ripped stuff to be saved as apple lossless (ALAC).  Once you've set that preference, you won't have to mess with it again. As already mentioned, don't sweat it being "APPLE" lossless : these file formats can be easily converted to other lossless formats such as FLAC.  Some people still want to save things as WAV files, but as others have noted, WAV's often don't copy over with the metadata, and more importantly, they take up a lot more space than an ALAC or FLAC without giving any substantial audible advantage. 

3.  Get the free ipad apple app "remote" (it may already be on your ipad).  With that you can control itunes completely & easily.

4.  The sound out mini-jack on the Imac is both analog or digital optical.  If you have an external DAC or receiver with an optical input, you just need a toslink optical cable that has a "mini-toslink" on one end to connect to the mac.  If you don't have an external dac or receiver that takes optical digital signals, you can get an analog cable that has a min-plug on one end and rca's on the other and connect to your stereo.

Once you get the hang of all that - which is actually pretty easy in use - you can then break out and get more "sophisticated" with additional software / hardware.  E.g. "Puremusic" software to go on-top of itunes, a USB DAC to connect to the MAC, etc.

Sounds to me for the moment you want to keep things simple & reliable, and the above 1-4 I think meets that criteria without you're having to pour through a lot of wikis / web pages / etc.  Hope that helps & best of luck!

[lowtech]

Aw gee Wally, it looks like I stepped on somebody's toes. I didn't mean to...really. Me and Lumpy have just been playing with the Squeezebox since...well...2005 I think...

My toes are fine, I assure you.  I've owned every incarnation of the SB, including the original.  So there.

p.s. Reread my post.  I think you didn't comprehend.

[mcgsxr]

Agree that a modern mini is a great step towards a quiet, simple to use music source.

I will have to take some time to look at JRiver, I am interested to see what it can do that LMS cannot etc.  I have never played with it.

[kbuzz3]

Xp box would be fine to start. I use an old xp box with db power amp as my cd ripping station (with a kodak cd robot i can rip 100 cds per hour!).

It is really not that hard!

Couple of comments on this thread as I am also a newbie looking to start a similar system.

1) I agree that the squeezebox software was annoying. To date, the best digital front end i had was a heavily modded bolder squeezebox with bybee and power supplies. Yet i sold it b/c the the software was imho shit.  Goes to show you that the front end is as important in this game then the hardware. I mean forgetting the sound quality, i think the sonos interface is great

2) The biggest problem i think is getting large collections of cd discs into flac/alac format. I dont know about most of you but i find ripping cd's even while im doing something else to be an incredible tedious task. I hate it!
Im actually trying to find a hs student with more time then money this summer to try some ripping for me.

           2a) On a related note can anyone provide more info on the above mentioned automated ripper/robots. How much are they? Are they cost effective? Do they work. Are they easy to set up and use?  Maybe we can do a pesudo "group buy" and mail a robot around ......

3) I love the idea of dipping toes in the water with a used older pc or mac. However, someone brought up noise.  How Can this be prevented? I mean how would you put a used laptop or tower in another room? Unless you upgrade to an SSD in my expereince most laptops or pcs will make noise.

4) MAc mini- got to be the best start to this type of project. But what of its sound quality?  Is an off the self mini equal sounding to any other type of pc-particualry given a choice of dac and varied  software such as pure or amarra.

5)  My two cents,  a cpu front end is worth pursuing.  For example, i took my 8 year old mac book pro, hooked up a cheapo headroom portable dac/amp (total bit head) turned up the cheap volume pot and outputted via a wire world usb, with generic mini to stereo cable, demoed a version of pure music and the sound was really really good.  Total outlay, not including the old laptop, maybe two hundred bucks.  Listening is always the best experiment.

Given this simple experiment, im now going to upgrade the laptop software to demo other bit perfect software solutions and examining better usb dacs....


Great thread keep it coming.

[S Clark]

I think it might be worth your time to talk to Rich Hollis (HAL here at AC).  The Windows music servers that he has been putting together for a couple of years can easily compete with the best of the Mac servers (as heard in after hours sessions at the last couple of RMAF).
Scott

[Don_S]

If I install a free trial of J-River or dbPoweramp on my old XP computer this weekend will I be able to install a new, free trial on any new computer I use if I decide to create a more permanent server? 

Anything I do on my Dell would be purely experimentation--flight simulation. It is way too slow. That is why I replace it with an HP (W7).

Thanks for all the input so far. I am glad others are finding value in this thread to help them set up their own servers.  Please let the thread drift if it needs to. Short of shouting matches I won't consider the thread hijacked if it helps someone now or next month.  After that, forget it.  The game will have changed again.  Too fast paced for me.  Where did I put my slide rule?

[bpape]

Should be able to.

Bryan

[JRace]

2) The biggest problem i think is getting large collections of cd discs into flac/alac format. I dont know about most of you but i find ripping cd's even while im doing something else to be an incredible tedious task. I hate it!
Im actually trying to find a hs student with more time then money this summer to try some ripping for me.

           2a) On a related note can anyone provide more info on the above mentioned automated ripper/robots. How much are they? Are they cost effective? Do they work. Are they easy to set up and use?  Maybe we can do a pesudo "group buy" and mail a robot around ......

The rippers are between $100-$1000.
Cost for shipping is $50-$150, so that may prohibit sharing it.

Ripping large collections is the hurdle that stops most people in there tracks.

to the OP: you can install a trial on one PC once, and then again on a different computer. No problems there.
the MOST IMPORTANT STEP is getting the data off the disc and on to your hard drive.
Do it once, and do it right!
You can do it on any computer not just the same one you would use for playback.

I avoid apple based codecs (AIFF ALAC) as I do not use macs, but even if you ripped it all to those formats you could still batch convert (without losing bits) to either WAV or FLAC if you ended up on a PC.

Just don't do a lossy codec like MP3.

[Don_S]

I do not understand.  That completely messes up my possible experimentation this weekend. It also nixes the neat package idea of using a small PC with built in optical drive or Mini with an external optical drive duct taped to it.

the MOST IMPORTANT STEP is getting the data off the disc and on to your hard drive.
Do it once, and do it right!
You can do it on any computer not just the same one you would use for playback.

[randytsuch]

If I install a free trial of J-River or dbPoweramp on my old XP computer this weekend will I be able to install a new, free trial on any new computer I use if I decide to create a more permanent server? 

Yes, you get a free trial per computer.

BTW, I like dbpoweramp, I think it makes ripping CD's fairly painless, at least as painless as it can be.

And as much of a pain it is to rip your entire collection, you just do it once and it's done.  Once you get used to PC based playback, I don't think you can go back to messing with CD's.  My CDP's now collect dust.

Also, there is no reason you can't rip CD's with you playback machine, you just can't rip CD's while using it for playback.

Randy