[Skiman]

I'm thinking of adding a pair of monoblock amps to my home theater system that would replace the front left and right channels of my multichannel amp. By doing so, I could locate the monblocks next to the main left and right LS9 speakers with very short, and higher end speaker cables. This is a surround system, and I presently have a 7 channel amp located in an in- wall equipment rack towards the back of the room, and so have very long Blue Jeans 10 AWG speaker cables. I would add a pair of long XLR balanced interconnects from the existing prepro to the proposed monoblocks. So, aside from potential amp related improvements, should this arraigment be better? Oh, I listen to both 2 channel as well as multichannel music and movies.  I'm hoping to get Danny's input.

[srb]

Have you read these AudioCircle topics yet?:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=88033.0

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=5613

Steve

[corndog71]

As a fan of better quality cables I would say go for it!   Plus if you're going to run longer interconnects, balanced cables are the way to go.

[mcgsxr]

I currently have my HT gear in a media closet at the opposite end of my room to where the front stage and display are.  Thus, I am using about 50 feet of speaker cable between amp and speakers.

I am also doing the same with my subwoofer - the amp is in the media closet, the sub is inside the wall by the display.

So, I did it this way and don't notice any bad effects, and would recommend it.

[BobM]

This is as controversial as tubes vs solid state, or vinyl vs digital, or upscale powercords vs normal cords. You will likely get as many variations on this as people who post.

I guess if you have adequate cables in either location you will probably be generally OK, as long as the lengths used are not excessive. I would suggest that if you are in an area with bad EMI/RFI you may want to go short IC's and long speaker cables, unless you are running balanced IC's. But if your speaker cable length exceeds 20' then it might make more sense to go long IC's with good shielding (you very well might get some top end roll off with speaker cables longer than that).

[bunky]

I run 1 meter IC's and 2 meter speaker cables.as a rule I don't run cables any longer than I need them to be. balanced IC cables can be used in longer runs without sonic degradation than the single ended IC's .

[jimdgoulding]

I think the answer is speaker cables.

[Wayner]

I usually suggest that the interconnects be as short as possible, because of the increase in capacitance, due to the extended lengths. But I do like short speaker cables, especially if you are near a radio station or ham operator, as these cables can become antenna.

However, with all that said, I see you have the ability to run XLR cables, and that changes everything. That is the way I would do it too. Longer interconnects, short speaker cables. XLR cables are shielded and were designed to be used where long lengths are required, like in recording studios or for bands performing live. Just use the usual common sense approach to longer interconnect cables, keeping them away from power cords, or if you have to cross them, do it perpendicular to the cord.

Should work just fine. Give the connectors a shot of De-oxit 5 before you install, and you will have years of trouble free service.

Wayner

[srb]

Although the shielded twisted pair of a balanced XLR connection reduces common mode noise, capacitance is not reduced and therefore having a low capacitance cable is of greater importance for long cable lengths.

Blue Jean Cables and others manufacturers offer reasonably priced XLR cables made with Belden 1800F (13pF/ft or 43pF/m) which is a good starting point for comparison.  If more expensive elitist audiophile cables can't or won't provide capacitance per foot/meter measurements, I would continue looking even in spite of romantic marketing prose or buzzwords like nanocrystalline, liquid, ceramic, etc.

Steve

[Wayner]

Well then all the music we listen to is f'ed up, because most of those "studio" cables are probably over a 100 feet long.

'ner

[srb]

Well then all the music we listen to is f'ed up, because most of those "studio" cables are probably over a 100 feet long.

And most likely are quality standard industrial Belden/Neutrik or equivalent low-capacitance cables rather than Sonatina Sostenuto Superbas or Sonic Silk Sensoras.

Steve

[DaveC113]

I think the answer is it depends on equipment, you wouldn't want to run extremely long single ended ICs even if the source has low enough output impedance to drive them. XLR was designed to be run long distances but a high capacitance IC is never going to be ideal, balanced or not.

Anyway, it is a tough question to answer definitively without trying it both ways...

[jcotner]

I'm with Wayne on this one.
My setup is Lynx HILO balanced to two of these transformers:
http://www.rdlnet.com/product.php?page=165
The transformers are located at the amp with 6" cables to
connect to the amp unbalanced.
I used West Penn Wire D25430 dual pair cable and my
run is around 40'
The speakers set beside the amp and are connected with
4' cables.
The only thing I would have done differently is to put the
DAC at the amp but since I have a lot of sources coming
into the DAC that doesn't work for me.
And this is in a studio BTW.

[bdp24]

And most likely are quality standard industrial Belden/Neutrik or equivalent low-capacitance cables rather than Sonatina Sostenuto Superbas or Sonic Silk Sensoras.

Steve

Producer Rick Rubin bought himself some big Wilson speakers to use as studio monitors, and some Cardas cables to go with them. After hearing what the cables did for the sound quality of his system, he replaced all of the "professional" cables in his studio with Cardas. Mic cables, patch cords, speaker wire, everything. Danny Ritchie himself uses hi-end wire in his systems. Just sayin'.

[OzarkTom]

Well then all the music we listen to is f'ed up, because most of those "studio" cables are probably over a 100 feet long.

'ner

And most of them are cheap Monster cables.

[bdp24]

I'm thinking of adding a pair of monoblock amps to my home theater system that would replace the front left and right channels of my multichannel amp. By doing so, I could locate the monblocks next to the main left and right LS9 speakers with very short, and higher end speaker cables. This is a surround system, and I presently have a 7 channel amp located in an in- wall equipment rack towards the back of the room, and so have very long Blue Jeans 10 AWG speaker cables. I would add a pair of long XLR balanced interconnects from the existing prepro to the proposed monoblocks. So, aside from potential amp related improvements, should this arraigment be better? Oh, I listen to both 2 channel as well as multichannel music and movies.  I'm hoping to get Danny's input.

One of the benefits of monoblock's is that they allow one to place each mono amp right at the speaker location, connecting the two with very short wire. With the new Rythmik XLR2 version of the A370 plate amp, if your GR subs are co-located with your speakers, and you have a balanced pre-amp/power amp set-up, you can run balanced from your pre-amp to the subs, balanced from the sub to the mono amp, and very short wire from the amp to the speaker. Loudspeakers present a much more reactive load to an amplifier (and visa versa) and to speaker wire, than pre- and power amps do to each other and to interconnects.

[Skiman]

Thanks for everyone's input, I've read all, including the links. I think I should restate my question, especially given my present layout. For me, it's not so much a question of whether to use long IC and short SC, or short IC and long SC. The question is will adding a pair of monoblocks connected by long balanced XLR cables really improve things? I already have short balanced interconnects (Blue Jeans Belden 1800F) between my prepro and multchannel amp, and long speaker cables ( Blue Jeans 10 AWG) to my speakers. With 7 speakers and 4 passive subs, there is probably 300' of speaker cable in my system, all running from the equipment rack. It is about 45' to the right front speaker, and about 38' to the left front speaker in cable length. Since I'd like to add a pair of monoblock amps, and since my 7' tall equipment rack is completely full, I'd position the new monblocks right next to the front left and right speakers. Doing it this way, I'd use a pair of balanced XLR cables, one 45' long, and the other 38' long. I have HT with bypass system, with both a Marantz AV7005 prepro, and a Pass Labs X1 stereo preamp. So, depending on use, either would drive the new monoblocks through a pair of long XLR cables. The Pass Labs X1 has a max output impedance of 750 ohms balanced, and 10 volts rms balanced out. The only spec I can find on the Marantz is a rated output of 2.4 volts in balanced mode. Then I could use a pair of short high end speaker cables, as Danny suggested to me. By the way, any recommendations on speaker cables that would connect to a five way binding post at the amp, and yet be able to be easy to strip and crimp a Electra Cable tube connector at the speaker end?

[BobM]

So this is a home theater and not a typical "stereo" setup. In that case I would say try to locate the amps and components as close as possible to the main 3 speakers (L-M-R) and keep things as short as practical there. The surrounds aren't as critical to your overall sound, are subject to delay processing anyway, and any potential signal loss from longer cables would be on this secondary and lower importance location. As for the subs, lengthy speaker cables tend to lose high frequency energy first, so not really an issue for a sub as long as the cables are of sufficient gauge.

[bdp24]

So your choice is A: to place the new monoblocks by the other EQ, connecting them with short interconnects and running long wire to the speakers, or B: placing the new amps by your speakers, connecting them to your pre-amp with long balanced interconnects and running short wire to the speakers. I would go with B. You will suffer less loss to the signal with long balanced interconnects than with long speaker wire. The capacitance etc. in speaker wire multiplies with each foot---balanced interconnects do not share that characteristic. Plus, it's a lot cheaper. You don't need to spend a lot on balanced interconnects, and a foot or so of even high-priced speaker wire (if that's what you want) won't cost a whole lot. That's what I do, using Belden cables and Kimber Kable Silver speaker wire (which you can buy by the foot and is easy to terminate any way you want---It's just three groups of wire in a noise-cancelling braid).

[Danny Richie]

Skiman,

Really the main question to ask is concerning the quality level of the system. If it is a budget level system then it wouldn't make a lot of sense to use really high quality cables. You'd easily wind up with more in cables than the rest of your system with runs that long of anything of any really good cable.

My issues with balanced cables is that it is hard to find really good quality ones. And a really good RCA cable will crush a budget balanced cable from Blue Jeans, Beldon, or Monster. But the cost will get crazy in a hurry if you need long runs. I am currently running some RCA cables from Ridge Street Audio in my system. But at $1,200 for a one meter pair, and prices going up from there, so it is not something I'd recommend for too many applications.

Good quality speaker cables are typically more expensive than interconnects and I tend to favor keeping them short. My favorite pair is about 2 feet long. The Electra Cable B-6 are still my favorite type of speaker cables.  http://www.electracable.com/speakercables.htm  They are not very expensive and they'll put any ends on them that you want.

My personal view regarding a large home theater system or home theater room that also doubled as a music listening room would be two separate systems.

Use what is reasonable on your home theater system. And I wouldn't spend a ton of money on much of the gear or cables. Put your money into some good speakers, and treat your room. Then set your high end two channel gear between the speakers with short cable runs that complement the system. You can even share an amp or set of mono-blocks between the two systems. But the cables, front end, and power conditioning might be very different.

Just my personal thoughts on movies is that there are very few of them that I like and enjoy watching. And I am not too freaked out over  getting the last bit of quality and resolution out of the playback. I'll only watch a movie once. I don't want to watch them again. To me it is like watching the same ball game over and over. Why do that when you already know how it will end?

But a great piece of music is like a fine piece of art that hangs on the wall. I will look at it over and over. A good piece of music will be enjoyed over and over. And I want to appreciate it to its fullest. So I don't mind spending some money on something that I will appreciate for a long time.

And when you do step up into higher quality cables I recommend trying them before you buy them. System synergy is everything. What works well in some applications does not work well in others. Comparing cables is also a good way to hear what the differences are and if they are worth it for your application.