BUGLE2

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. Read 20496 times.

Wolfgang III

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 12
Re: BUGLE2
« Reply #40 on: 29 Jun 2014, 08:36 pm »
Did you match the components from one channel to another before assembly?  I tested all of my resistors and tried to match each channel as closely as possible.  Mine match up very well.   Also, have you swapped the turntable cables to see if it is the table?  When I first got mine connected, it was off balance.  It ended up being dirty contacts on the cartridge pins.

Hello again,

 I finally found some time where I could get into the bugel 2 again. First of all I did some modifications while I had it out. For practical purposes I decided it would be handier if the inputs and outputs were on the same side so I rehoused it. (It's a shame as I really liked the transparent case). I added a on off switch as well, I found it a bit awkward to have to power it off by pulling out the jack, the wall sockets where it is plugged in is not easily accessible. And finally i added the opamps as suggested by Salis audio at the top of the page.

When I connected it back up again one of the chanels is now silent. I switched the cables to make sure.

I really have little or no experience with electronics just a simplistic understanding of how some stuff works, so I did some readings with a multimetre to check resistance. I found variations between each side but I am not able to follow the circuit well enough to isolate the issue.  So initially with the mulitmetre set to 200k I just tested from each input to each out put and I found a difference of approximately 11. In order to narrow down where the problem lies can some one tell me the best place to test next.I have the  idea, may be mistaken, that if I can find the mid way point of the circuit I can test again and find out which half the problem is, find the mid way point of that section and test again, each time narrowing  down the area where the problem mat be until I find it. The image posted above shows where the initial readings were taken. Thanks for reading and any help would be appreciated.
Niall.

poty

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 616
Re: BUGLE2
« Reply #41 on: 30 Jun 2014, 07:11 am »
I do not know how the parts in Buggle have been numbered, in the manual there is only one channel shown. I hope the asterisks after the parts indexes are for L or R suffix in the schematic, so...
I'd start with checking if you have soldered the opamps correctly. Check twice, three times - as many times as need to be absolutely sure they are correctly soldered.
Then power on the device, turn the volume at a slightly less than normal listening level and touch with a thin screwdriver or something metallic the following points in both channels (you should touch the metal part of the thing):
1. The output RCA's center pins.
2. R12*.
3. R7*.
4. R1*.
You should have rather loud hum from all the 8 points. The problem is between the point where the hum is not comparable to the working channel and the previous test point.

ElacTT

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 3
Re: BUGLE2
« Reply #42 on: 2 Jul 2014, 04:45 am »

Hello again,

 I finally found some time where I could get into the bugel 2 again. First of all I did some modifications while I had it out. For practical purposes I decided it would be handier if the inputs and outputs were on the same side so I rehoused it. (It's a shame as I really liked the transparent case). I added a on off switch as well, I found it a bit awkward to have to power it off by pulling out the jack, the wall sockets where it is plugged in is not easily accessible. And finally i added the opamps as suggested by Salis audio at the top of the page.

When I connected it back up again one of the chanels is now silent. I switched the cables to make sure.

I really have little or no experience with electronics just a simplistic understanding of how some stuff works, so I did some readings with a multimetre to check resistance. I found variations between each side but I am not able to follow the circuit well enough to isolate the issue.  So initially with the mulitmetre set to 200k I just tested from each input to each out put and I found a difference of approximately 11. In order to narrow down where the problem lies can some one tell me the best place to test next.I have the  idea, may be mistaken, that if I can find the mid way point of the circuit I can test again and find out which half the problem is, find the mid way point of that section and test again, each time narrowing  down the area where the problem mat be until I find it. The image posted above shows where the initial readings were taken. Thanks for reading and any help would be appreciated.
Niall.


Just finished my "hot rodded" bugle 2 with a switch and DC jack for case mounting. Before mounting in the case I fired it up and played two albums late into the night. Unplugged the unit for the evening. Plugged the unit in the next morning and nothing, complete silence. The LED was flashing but no sound. I took voltage measurements on pins 4 & 8 of the op amps. One pin showed voltage close to wall wart voltage and the other pin was almost zero. Traced the problem back to the U1 (TLE2426) voltage divider. Take your multi meter and measure in-out-virtual ground. Output/V. Ground should be around 12vdc. Bypass Power circuit with two 9 volt batteries and unit sounds great. Waiting for new TLE2426.

Wolfgang III

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 12
Re: BUGLE2
« Reply #43 on: 2 Jul 2014, 12:20 pm »
I do not know how the parts in Buggle have been numbered, in the manual there is only one channel shown. I hope the asterisks after the parts indexes are for L or R suffix in the schematic, so...
I'd start with checking if you have soldered the opamps correctly. Check twice, three times - as many times as need to be absolutely sure they are correctly soldered.
Then power on the device, turn the volume at a slightly less than normal listening level and touch with a thin screwdriver or something metallic the following points in both channels (you should touch the metal part of the thing):
1. The output RCA's center pins.
2. R12*.
3. R7*.
4. R1*.
You should have rather loud hum from all the 8 points. The problem is between the point where the hum is not comparable to the working channel and the previous test point.

Hi Poty and thanks for taking the time to look at the problem I have. I have checked the opamps, at least the soldering and it seems to be ok but I suspect the problem lies in one of them.

I did the hum test and what I got was as follows

The RCA center pin left and right - no hum  (did you mean the input RCA?)
R12 (left) mild hum                         R12 (r) hum
R7 (l) hum                                       R7 (r) deep hum
R1 (l) hum                                       R1 (r) Loud hum
RCA input center pin (l) hum           RCA input center pin (r) loud hum

At one stage during testing the left speaker also went off, but I powered off and back on the Bugle and it came on again.

I did some more resistance testing with the multimetre set to 200k and it is as follows

Out put center - R12 (l) 50.6                Output center - R12 (r) 60.7
R12 (l) - R7(l)                 74.6                R12 (r) - R7 (r)              74.6
R12 (l) - R16 (l)              50.6                R12 (r) - R 16 (r)           60.7
R7 (l) - R1 (l)                  74.6                R7 (r) - R1 (r)                74.6

So I am guessing it might be in the opamp U4?

I hope you can read something out of this,

Niall.

jimdgoulding

Re: BUGLE2
« Reply #44 on: 2 Jul 2014, 02:59 pm »
I bought one two months ago assembled for $189.00US to include shipping and its fine as good wine in my system.

poty

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 616
Re: BUGLE2
« Reply #45 on: 3 Jul 2014, 06:38 am »
The RCA center pin left and right - no hum  (did you mean the input RCA?)
I mentioned output RCAs, but I guess you touched the output RCAs in this test. It seems strange for me there is no hum at either points, but lets think it is OK.
R12 (left) mild hum                         R12 (r) hum
The difference starts here. It may be U4 or something else around it or even some solder bridge earlier in the circuit. Taking into account the following reading (I hope you do that when the Bugle was switched off and everything disconnected from the output):
Out put center - R12 (l) 50.6                Output center - R12 (r) 60.7
it seems there is some difference (around 10k) in the last stage. Could you check (measure) the following resistances in both channels: R13, R14, R15 and across the output RCAs?
Just for "not walk twice" on the same circuit could you make one more test: put a short wire between R12s in both cannels (one end on the left channel, the other - on the right) and listen of the outcome? Be very careful not to short out some other circuits.
At one stage during testing the left speaker also went off, but I powered off and back on the Bugle and it came on again.
Could you elaborate more about the incident?

Wolfgang III

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 12
Re: BUGLE2
« Reply #46 on: 3 Jul 2014, 10:22 pm »
I mentioned output RCAs, but I guess you touched the output RCAs in this test. It seems strange for me there is no hum at either points, but lets think it is OK.The difference starts here. It may be U4 or something else around it or even some solder bridge earlier in the circuit. Taking into account the following reading (I hope you do that when the Bugle was switched off and everything disconnected from the output):it seems there is some difference (around 10k) in the last stage. Could you check (measure) the following resistances in both channels: R13, R14, R15 and across the output RCAs?
Just for "not walk twice" on the same circuit could you make one more test: put a short wire between R12s in both cannels (one end on the left channel, the other - on the right) and listen of the outcome? Be very careful not to short out some other circuits.Could you elaborate more about the incident?

Solved  :thumb:. I started the diagnostic and found that R15 (l) and (r) were giving different readings. R15 (r) was giving a reading of 1.3 and was not the correct resistor,  I search the spares that came with the kit and there was another 130k with which I replaced the wrong one. But that was not the reason that one channel was down. I discovered one of the wires I used to connect to the RCA to the PCB was not allowing current through it. I had used headphone wire to make the connections between the RCA's and the PCB but there is a insulation that need to be burned off before soldering and on one end of one of the connections the it was not making a contact. Resoldered the faulty connection and it works!

I am delighted as I had not really done anything electronic like this before and was a little nervous modifying the kit in case I made a bollocks of the whole thing.

For me this is one of the most amazing thing about the internet, that some one who has some experience can help some one like me who is a total novice. But its also the fact that it is totally altruistic, people are willing to give their time and knowledge to some one they don't know, and I am incredibly grateful for this. THank you Poty for your help, you solved my problem, also thanks to ElacTT for your post.

poty

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 616
Re: BUGLE2
« Reply #47 on: 4 Jul 2014, 06:50 am »
I'm glad I was able to help you with the problem. I must say that you were very active and give much information. :) It always helps!

Wolfgang III

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 12
Re: BUGLE2
« Reply #48 on: 4 Jul 2014, 03:35 pm »
I'm glad I was able to help you with the problem. I must say that you were very active and give much information. :) It always helps!

Damn, spoke too soon :(. I put on an album this morning and after I turned it over there was some intermittent cracking and popping, it happened a few times 20 or 25 seconds apart so I decided to turn it off. It made quite a loud pop when I turned the bugle off.

ElacTT

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 3
Re: BUGLE2
« Reply #49 on: 4 Jul 2014, 11:33 pm »
I feel your pain. Received the new "U1" yesterday, and quickly installed and mounted the PCB in the case. Played perfectly. Something about "over night". I had a ground hum this morning. In playing around trying to find the source; the unit started cutting in and out. Source of the ground hum is interconnects to close to turntable wall wart. I thought at first the can op amps may have been loose in the dip 8 sockets because they were a real ......to mount. But the cracking and breakup seems to be caused by the interface of the DC plug and Switchcraft DC jack. Going to be ordering from Mouser soon and will order a new DC plug for the wall wart. Hope this is the problem. In the mean time everything is good if I don't touch it. Plays beautifully. Just played Jerry Garcia and David Grisman on a Mobile Fidelity recording and WOW.

Wolfgang III

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 12
Re: BUGLE2
« Reply #50 on: 9 Jul 2014, 06:33 am »
I have a few hours today and I am going to open it up again and re check all the solder connections. One thing I noticed, while measuring the resistance, on the right channel the measurement for the higher levels, (from output center pin to input center pin for example 61.7), started in the mid 50's an rose slowly until it stopped at  at 61.7, where as on the left channel it jumped straight to the final reading of 61.7. Is this of any significance?

Wolfgang III

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 12
Re: BUGLE2
« Reply #51 on: 9 Jul 2014, 05:11 pm »
 :scratch:The continuing saga, 2 steps forward 1 step back. I found what I thought was a poor soldered wire between the RCA and the circuit board, re soldered the rest rest of the connections as well anyway. Put the bugle 2 back into service and it seemed to run perfectly, well for one album at least. On the second album it started cracking and popping again. It also made a loud pop when I turned off the Bugle.

Speedskater

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 2338
  • Kevin
Re: BUGLE2
« Reply #52 on: 9 Jul 2014, 08:47 pm »
Some headphone wires (cores) can be extremely difficult to work with! It is not designed to be soldered, and only works with special compression connectors.

I would use something more like Cat3 or Cat5 wires.

Wolfgang III

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 12
Re: BUGLE2
« Reply #53 on: 10 Jul 2014, 09:25 am »
I will be happy to replace all the headphone wire with cat 3 or 5 wire, but I am off on the road again for work so it will be a few weeks before I am free to work on it again. I will update when I get the chance. Thanks Speedskater.

hagtech

Re: BUGLE2
« Reply #54 on: 13 Jul 2014, 03:22 am »
You don't really need to turn the BUGLE2 off.  If you do, then make sure volume control is down. 

jh

Wolfgang III

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 12
Re: BUGLE2
« Reply #55 on: 31 Jul 2014, 02:23 pm »
 :lol: The saga continues. I got home a few days ago and knew I would have a few hours today to get inside the Bugle2. Yesterday afternoon I put a record on and it played beautifully, for about 20 mins, then a loud pop just as the last track was starting. It scared the crap out of my 1 yr old who was sitting on my lap. So I put the Bugel2 out on the table today and replaced the headphone cable with cat 3 wire.
I was just mulling over from when the problem began to try figure out where the problem lies. When I first assembled the bugle2 and after some basic trouble shooting it worked fine except for the different volume levels on the left and right channels, but no popping or cracking during use and also not when pulling the power jack from the unit.

I assume I corrected the volume issue when I discovered the wrong resistor in one of the channels and replaced it. The other changes I made were, moved the RCA jacks from  the board and connected them by wire, put an on off switch and replaced the opamps. THe problem should be with one of these changes.
Applying naive logic to the timing of the popping I am guessing that there may be something to do with heat, as the unit warms up through use then something changes, possible a bad joint. While I had the Bugel2 out I inspected (as well as I could) all the joints to the op amps and re soldered anything looking like it might not be good.

Put it all back together and hooked it up. With the volume low I turned the Bugle2 on and off a few times and there was no popping, turned up the volume more and indeed there was only a slight sound. I put a record on, played beautifully till the end of the lp and again another loud pop.  Then it popped loudly when I powered it off. :(

Any suggestions as where to go next would be greatly appreciated, I really don't have the knowledge but I am enjoying learning.

Hi Jim, I would not really have an issue with turning the volume down when powering the Bugle2 off but it is annoying me that it was not necessary prior to the modifications I made. I need to fix the popping during use and I suspect it will stop the popping at turn off aswell.

Wolfgang III

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 12
Re: BUGLE2
« Reply #56 on: 6 Aug 2014, 05:31 pm »
 :thumb: found the issue, went through each solder and found one that was not connected properly, re soldered it and no more popping and cracking, even when I switch it off.
Thanks everyone who gave input towards getting this resolved.

soulman

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 4
Re: BUGLE2
« Reply #57 on: 15 Aug 2014, 08:14 am »
I was wondering if anyone has "upgraded" their Bugle2 with better components and if so what did they use? I'm interested in changing capacitors and maybe resistors initially but for what type? Can you sub any high quality capacitor in for the 3 down either side?

Finally I have moved from a MM cartridge to a low output MC and have heard an increase in noise when no record is played, is this down to the extra gain amplifying electronic noise in the circuit? It also picks up what I think is mobile phone wifi interference, would a metal case solve this?

ElacTT

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 3
Q
« Reply #58 on: 18 Aug 2014, 02:35 am »
 I upgraded mine on the initial build. Here is a list of the parts:

Vishay Dale CMF55 resistors in the signal and feedback path
Audyn Plus & Q4 capacitors in the signal path
Nichicon FG Electrolytic capacitors
Cardas RCA jacks
Cardas Quad solder
Mogami hookup wire
A metal case from DIY Audio
Toggle switch
Switchcraft DC jack

The last change (upgrade?) was replacing the voltage divider TLE2426 with the noise reduction TLE2426Y chip and capacitor. I don't believe I was getting a good connection with the DC jack(finally changed connector type) which caused voltage surges and blowing two TLE2426's. So when ordering more, I popped for the chip also. As per Tangentsoft.net I jumped pins 2&8 with capacitor. Can't say for sure if it's better since other changes were made in my system.

As for SQ I can't compare it to the regular build, but I think it sounds fantastic. Kills my old Graham Slee SE II.

I thought the unit was pretty quiet, but not completely silent. However I recently plugged my headphones into my new Bryston BP-17 preamp and could hear quite a bit of "hash". In fact I could hear it during vinyl playback. Hopefully, I can get it worked out.

Edit: Knew I forgot something.  Upgraded LME49720 to TO-99 model (can version) with heatsinks.
« Last Edit: 18 Aug 2014, 02:28 pm by ElacTT »