Ahhhh, The Masters

stlrman · « **on:** 11 Apr 2013, 08:04 pm »

Got to love the Masters!!
Sergio had a 32 on the front 9, and now sitting at -5.
Tiger at -2 , driving the ball great! Let's go Tiger!!
Do check out the Master's web site for live coverage, plus you can go into the score cards and view the tv coverage , say of every birdie the leader and others posted that round.(and much more coverage of course)
www.masters.com

Letitroll98 · « **Reply #1 on:** 12 Apr 2013, 06:11 am »

Golfers of course know all of this, but it's a remarkable course and a remarkable tradition started by giants, Bobby Jones and Cliff Roberts.

stlrman · « **Reply #2 on:** 12 Apr 2013, 01:41 pm »

An 8th grader from China shot a 1 over par.(amazing!!) He out scored 16 pros who are in the top 50. Yesterday was a fantastic scoring day with scores of players in the red. I'm home at 2:30 to watch.

rollo · « **Reply #3 on:** 12 Apr 2013, 03:04 pm »

Love it love it love it. Audio takes a side step this time of year. The Masters is just special. Hey men we need a Audiocircle foursome. I live in NY and would love to knock the egg around with some good people. Anyone game ?

charles

BobM · « **Reply #4 on:** 12 Apr 2013, 04:28 pm »

Course playing harder today. Most everyone going the other way.

vinyl_guy · « **Reply #5 on:** 12 Apr 2013, 04:32 pm »

My favorite golf tournament. Nothing better than watching players in contention take on the back nine on Sunday with the opportunity for eagles at 13 & 15. Go Phil! (us lefties have to stick together).

ArthurDent · « **Reply #6 on:** 12 Apr 2013, 05:12 pm »

Thanks for the link stlrman

My favorite as well. Sorry Laura, Go Freddie !

LadyDog · « **Reply #7 on:** 12 Apr 2013, 05:37 pm »

Love the Masters. Always a great weekend watching the pressure of the final two rounds.

I'm with A/D, would love to see Freddie bring it home.

stlrman · « **Reply #8 on:** 12 Apr 2013, 08:39 pm »

Tiger storming into contention!!

-5 ,only one back. Rory had a great day to pull to -2.
Freddy is in at -5. The old man still has it.

vinyl_guy · « **Reply #9 on:** 12 Apr 2013, 08:54 pm »

Quote from: stlrman on 12 Apr 2013, 08:39 pm

Freddy is in at -5. The old man still has it.

Still the best pure swing in golf today IMO. Too bad he has had so many back problems. Since Phil appears to be pulling a "Phil" I would love to see Freddy win it. When I was a LOT younger, I loved watching Sam Sneed swing.

geezer · « **Reply #10 on:** 12 Apr 2013, 10:18 pm »

What I'm most excited about is the performance of the 14 year old kid, who, it appears, will make the cut.

rodge827 · « **Reply #11 on:** 13 Apr 2013, 12:03 am »

Quote from: stlrman on 12 Apr 2013, 08:39 pm

Tiger storming into contention!! -5 ,only one back. Rory had a great day to pull to -2.
Freddy is in at -5. The old man still has it.

So Tiger dumps a couple coming in, and is at -3, still very much in contention.
Freddy will be sharing his day with Day and Guan makes the cut after being penalized for slow play.

It's about time slow play has been addressed on tour, we could use a few good marshals on my course!

How about DJ dumping 6 on the back nine?

Hey, easy on that "old man" stuff junior!

Tomorrow is moving day, it will be fun to see who has game.

Gotta love The Masters

geezer · « **Reply #12 on:** 13 Apr 2013, 12:21 am »

Quote from: rodge827 on 13 Apr 2013, 12:03 am

Guan makes the cut after being penalized for slow play.

I heard Couples say he hadn't heard of penalizing anyone for slow play in the Master's before. Strange!

rodge827 · « **Reply #13 on:** 13 Apr 2013, 01:47 am »

True!
But the tour has begun to seriously address the issue of slow play.
Guan, Crenshaw and Manassero were put on the clock, I think on 12 tee.
At that time each player is timed and the slow guy(s) get warnings.
Guan was warned twice before being penalized on 17.
The group was featured on Direct TV Thursday, and every shot became a negotiation between Guan and his caddy.
The rules officials must have noticed this and kept a closer eye on him today.
Perhaps some intense words with Guan and his caddy might have helped.

Personally I thought it was a little harsh on the kid, but hey a 14year old made the cut!

At 14 I was trying to con my Dad into getting me KISS tickets.

rodge827 · « **Reply #14 on:** 13 Apr 2013, 02:34 pm »

Whoa!

Tiger gets whacked 2 for an illegal drop on 15.

I watched the play live and thought he did nothing wrong, but then again what do I know?

Whooda' thought The Masters to be so controversial this year!

golfugh · « **Reply #15 on:** 13 Apr 2013, 03:01 pm »

The ruling FOR Tiger is plain wrong...if anyone else on tour did what he did they'd be DQd!! He signed the wrong card for gosh sakes!

geezer · « **Reply #16 on:** 13 Apr 2013, 03:10 pm »

Would someone explain exactly what Tiger did, and what is the relevant rule please?

golfugh · « **Reply #17 on:** 13 Apr 2013, 03:25 pm »

Rule 26. Ball goes into a hazard (not lateral). You have 2 options:

1. Drop as close as possible to where you hit the shot, no nearer the whole
2. From a point where the ball entered the hazard draw a line between the flag and that point and drop along that line as far back as you want

If available, you can also drop in a drop area.

Tiger applied option 1. Yet, he dropped 2 yards behind his original spot and admitted as such in his post round interview. He also stated he added 2 yards to help the shot.

This means he gained an advantage. Ergo, a 2 shot penalty. BUT he signed his card without adding the penalty, ergo DQ.

Mark

Letitroll98 · « **Reply #18 on:** 13 Apr 2013, 06:26 pm »

Mark is correct, but incomplete. The rules committee was notified that there might be something wrong with Tiger's drop before he ended play, they reviewed the video and they gave him the green light to continue play without penalty under rule 26a.

They based this decision under rule 20-2b: When a ball is to be dropped as near as possible to a specific spot, it must be dropped not nearer the hole than the specific spot which, if it is not precisely known to the player, must be estimated. A ball when dropped must first strike a part of the course where the applicable Rule requires it to be dropped. And 20-5b: When a player elects or is required to make his next stroke from where a previous stroke was made, he must proceed as follows: (b) Through the Green: The ball to be played must be dropped and when dropped must first strike a part of the course through the green.

Definitions " Nearest Point Of Relief" It is the point on the course nearest to where the ball lies:
(i) that is not nearer the hole.
Note: In order to determine the nearest point of relief accurately, the player should use the club with which he would have made his next stroke if the condition were not there to simulate the address position, direction of play and swing for such a stroke.

After the scorecard was signed, Tiger stated in an interview that he dropped two yards behind the spot, mixing up rule 26a: playing a ball as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was last played; and 26b: Drop a ball behind the water hazard, keeping the point at which the original ball last crossed the margin of the water hazard directly between the hole and the spot on which the ball is dropped, with no limit to how far behind the water hazard the ball may be dropped. Therefore the committee stated his intent was not to drop a ball nearest the previous spot, but to gain advantage that would only be available under 26b, therefore he should have been assessed a two stroke penalty after playing the next tee shot without correcting the error. Signing an incorrect scorecard results in a disqualification. (A major point is that he didn't drop two yards behind the spot, he actually dropped within two club lengths, an accepted distance for a drop when taking a penalty)

However, a big however, is rule 33-7: A penalty of disqualification may in exceptional individual cases be waived, modified or imposed if the Committee considers such action warranted. What does this mean? There's nothing specific in the decisions, but in the same spirit is decision: 33-7/5 Play of Wrong Ball Not Rectified on Advice of Referee. This one addresses wrong advice by a referee, but "committee" could be substituted for "referee" since they had prior knowledge, and the decision was: Should the competitor be disqualified? No. In the circumstances, the competitor should incur a penalty of two strokes for a breach of Rule (26a). The disqualification penalty that he also incurred under that Rule should be waived by the Committee under Rule 33-7, since the competitor's failure to correct his mistake was due to the error of the (committee).

Thus we have Tiger continueing play under a two stroke penalty. Most of the guys on the Golf channel say he should DQ himself. Most of the guys on ESPN think he should continue to play. I think the ruling has been made by the competition committee and should be accepted, move on.

Separately, debating the decision, I think it's a cluster fudge. Once the decision was made that the drop was under the rules, it's over. Whatever his intent was is immaterial. He dropped within two club lengths not nearer the hole, not matter that he thought it was two yards, no matter that he thought he could drop it on a line behind the spot. Any penalty for the drop is stupid and ridiculous, the committee is not the mind police, either he followed the rules or he didn't, thoughts don't matter. You don't get a break if you thought you did the right thing and were in error, you shouldn't be punished if you thought the wrong thing but complied with the rules. This baloney spoils the whole Masters for me unless Tiger comes back and wins anyway.

vinyl_guy · « **Reply #19 on:** 13 Apr 2013, 06:34 pm »

Quote from: golfugh on 13 Apr 2013, 03:25 pm

This means he gained an advantage. Ergo, a 2 shot penalty. BUT he signed his card without adding the penalty, ergo DQ.

Mark

According to an article on ESPN.com,

Quote

Before 2012, Woods would have been disqualified for signing an incorrect scorecard. Under new rules enacted by the United States Golf Association and R&A in 2011, a player can have penalty strokes added afterward when facts were not reasonably presented at the time of scorecard signing."This is a logical and important step in our re-evalution of the impact of high-definition video on the game,'' said USGA executive director Mike Davis at the time the new rule was announced in August 2011. "We collectively believe that this revised decision addressed many video-related issues never contemplated by the Rules of Golf.''

According to the story, because the committee initially determined that Woods had dropped correctly (before he signed his score card), and later changed their intepretation after Woods television interview and discussing with him this morning, the committee used their authority under rule 33 to waive DQ.

But according to the USGA website, the "revision to Decision 33-7/4.5 addresses the situation where a player is not aware he has breached a Rule because of facts that he did not know and could not reasonably have discovered prior to returning his score card. Under this revised decision and at the discretion of the Committee, the player still receives the penalty associated with the breach of the underlying Rule, but is not disqualified.''

So, is it reasonable to think that Tiger did not know he had breached rule 26? I've been playing golf for 50 years and I know that knowingly dropping 2 yds behind where you played the shot that went into the hazzard is not "playing the next shot as close to where you hit the initial shot."

Quite a debate going on about whether Tiger should withdraw. A lot of current players support the ruling. Nick Faldo disagrees.