Jonesing a Traveler, but will it best a DP-62L?

raysracing · « **Reply #20 on:** 25 Mar 2013, 04:41 pm »

I talked briefly to Sound smith this morning and going back to older recomnendations about mass loading I cannot use their screw kit. I can fashion something up more elegant given time. Great idea on the replacing set screws with longer bolts. Could add nuts to fine tune.

I will try and tune with weight to theoretically move the resonant frequency given the mass of the cart and eff mass of arm. I am about to learn something new tonight I see. Wish me luck. I may need help with the calculations. No eff mass if arm us known though: http://www.vinylengine.com/library/denon/dp-62l.shtml

Sound Smith Also recommended the Carmen over the Otello given I have a DL103.

wushuliu · « **Reply #21 on:** 29 Mar 2013, 12:23 am »

Quote from: raysracing on 25 Mar 2013, 02:50 am

I am considering a Sound Smith Otello entry level, but was hoping for some thoughts. It would 100% require selling if my Denon and possibly other things to make happen. What little I have dug up makes it sound like (pun not intended) an Otello is MC like, even Denon MC like. But it is a high to medium compliance cartridge. TIA,
Ray

Love my Otello. Even love the packaging. I say get the Carmen. Sound Smith is one of those makers whose products will only gain prestige over time. I would get 2 carts if I could (and probably will at some point), and keep one unused and unopened.

a.wayne · « **Reply #22 on:** 3 Apr 2013, 12:54 am »

Quote from: JackD on 8 Mar 2013, 01:03 am

I agree with Neobop about adding too much weight to the headshell. Also not a big 2M fan. If you are a sell and buy kind of guy, you might want to look at the Ortofon OM series 20 and up or the AT-150. Another candidate might be the Denon DL-110, but it might be borderline also. Neo might have an opinion on whether the Grado's would work and they won't have the hum issue with the Denon motor. I really like the sound of a Grado body with an 8MZ stylus.

Jack

Another 8mz recommendation , good news ....

a.wayne · « **Reply #23 on:** 3 Apr 2013, 01:02 am »

Quote from: wushuliu on 29 Mar 2013, 12:23 am

Love my Otello. Even love the packaging. I say get the Carmen. Sound Smith is one of those makers whose products will only gain prestige over time. I would get 2 carts if I could (and probably will at some point), and keep one unused and unopened.

I have been asking around about the Otello and soundsmith cartridges on a whole , this is the first time i have seen Anything positive on them ...

wushuliu · « **Reply #24 on:** 3 Apr 2013, 01:04 am »

Quote from: a.wayne on 3 Apr 2013, 01:02 am

I have been asking around about the Otello and soundsmith cartridges on a whole , this is the first time i have seen Anything positive on them ...

Are you saying you have only heard negative things about them or are you saying you have not heard anything uh at all.

Scottdazzle · « **Reply #25 on:** 3 Apr 2013, 01:15 am »

Quote from: a.wayne on 3 Apr 2013, 01:02 am

I have been asking around about the Otello and soundsmith cartridges on a whole , this is the first time i have seen Anything positive on them ...

Soundsmith is a small American company that has a well-deserved reputation for excellent design, meticulous production standards, and good value. There are some reviews online, but mostly for the higher price models. I attribute this mostly to the audio press which is more interested in pricier items. Btw, I do not sell any cartridges, but feel comfortable recommending Soundsmith.

a.wayne · « **Reply #26 on:** 3 Apr 2013, 07:32 pm »

Quote from: wushuliu on 3 Apr 2013, 01:04 am

Are you saying you have only heard negative things about them or are you saying you have not heard anything uh at all.

The ones i have spoken to who have, dont rate them highly , best was OK, others disappointed , i was interested in trying the Otella, now on pause ......

neobop · « **Reply #27 on:** 3 Apr 2013, 10:38 pm »

Ray,
Before Wushuliu, I guess it was a couple of yrs ago, we had a post by someone who absolutely loved his Othello. Actually it was the less expensive version that's now discontinued. He couldn't give a comparison but said it tracked good and sounds great. I think it has a 3 x 7 mil elliptical. I'd recommend medium compliance if you get that. Seems less expensive than it was.

There are all kinds of carts that will work with that arm and IMO selection should be based not only on compatibility, but the type of sound you like. Disillusioned with the 103? Why, not optimal in that set up? Maybe you should discuss what you like about the 103. Don't like the 2M Red? Why?
There's always options, maybe we can help figure it out.
neo

raysracing · « **Reply #28 on:** 3 Apr 2013, 10:45 pm »

Neo that will be very appreciated. Let me try and put my thoughts into print. Maybe we can try and seperately cart from pre in the process.

wushuliu · « **Reply #29 on:** 3 Apr 2013, 11:09 pm »

FYI, I agree to the previous assertion that the Otello sounds similar to a Denon; to my ears the Denon DL 110 and the Otello sound very much alike. I'll admit that the Otello does not sound $200 better than the 110 from my experience.

a.wayne · « **Reply #30 on:** 3 Apr 2013, 11:47 pm »

Sounds about right .......

Quote from: wushuliu on 3 Apr 2013, 11:09 pm

FYI, I agree to the previous assertion that the Otello sounds similar to a Denon; to my ears the Denon DL 110 and the Otello sound very much alike. I'll admit that the Otello does not sound $200 better than the 110 from my experience.

raysracing · « **Reply #31 on:** 13 Apr 2013, 01:27 am »

Neobop and others. This is my fathers unused turntable and my college (80's) cartridge Signet TK1EA. Aligned with baerwald and I think it is running very well against my dp62l with DL103. I have my old Sonus Gold and Signet tk3ea to try. I installed the 3ea on the Technics. quite good.I may try the Gold on the Denon due to it's compliance (50cms/dyne..)

JackD · « **Reply #32 on:** 13 Apr 2013, 01:59 am »

What Technics is it? You can buy a new stylus for either Signet and yes it will compete against the Denon and the DL-103, because they are not a compliance match. Put the right cartridge on the Denon and it might be equal. But regardless that is a stunning Technics from the same era.

JackD · « **Reply #33 on:** 13 Apr 2013, 02:02 am »

In my opinion either one of the tables you now have are better than a Traveler, but that is my opinion and ymmv.

raysracing · « **Reply #34 on:** 13 Apr 2013, 02:04 am »

Well near as I can tell this SL-M1S has a similar tonearm to an M2 which has an effective mass of 13.5. It is an early 80's deck.

raysracing · « **Reply #35 on:** 13 Apr 2013, 02:17 am »

I want to try the Dl103 on this S-arm as it may have a closer match, but as careful as I am, remounting my most expensive cartridge several times ( should it not work in the Technics) makes me nervous.

neobop · « **Reply #36 on:** 13 Apr 2013, 03:16 am »

Quote from: raysracing on 13 Apr 2013, 01:27 am

Neobop and others. This is my fathers unused turntable and my college (80's) cartridge Signet TK1EA. Aligned with baerwald and I think it is running very well against my dp62l with DL103. I have my old Sonus Gold and Signet tk3ea to try. I installed the 3ea on the Technics. quite good.I may try the Gold on the Denon due to it's compliance (50cms/dyne..)

Nice. Very nice. I agree with JackD, forget about the Traveller.

I'll say forget about the 103 as well. IMO you should sell it before you break the cantilever. You're not really set up for a 103 and you'll have to invest $$$ to max it out anyway. That Signet 3Ea is a beautiful cart, very close to the 7LCa. Get a ATN155LC stylus for that little gem and you'd have to spend $700 to even get close to it IMO. I kid you not. StereoNeedles has the stylus - around $180 (beryllium/Line contact). You'll have detail/finesse a stock 103 can't even dream about.

That Sonus Gold, is that a Blue Gold? I'll have to look it up. I think the Blue Gold was the TOTL. I have a Sonus arm that came with an eff mass of 4.5g. I have a custom headshell that puts it up to around 6g. You might get good results with the Denon if the stylus is still good. Results might depend on your table support/mount.

Same thing with the Grado - needs a better stylus to sound its best. I think you should figure out how to max out what you have with the money available. The 103 will require a greater investment - stylus, body, maybe potting. My opinion anyway.
neo

raysracing · « **Reply #37 on:** 13 Apr 2013, 03:21 am »

The 3ea sounds very good, but is loud in groove and I may need to realign as it has some sibilants on piano and other higher pitch passages. I would be happy to try that stylus with the signet body for sure.

Figures I have Two turntables with arms with almost no info on the arms.

DL 103 for sale soon.

Thsnk all,
Ray

neobop · « **Reply #38 on:** 13 Apr 2013, 03:34 am »

Quote from: raysracing on 13 Apr 2013, 03:21 am

The 3ea sounds very good, but is loud in groove and I may need to realign as it has some sibilants on piano and other higher pitch passages. I would be happy to try that stylus with the signet body for sure.

Figures I have Two turntables with arms with almost no info on the arms.

DL 103 for sale soon.

Thsnk all,
Ray

That could be a worn stylus. An elliptical stylus has the shortest life span of any shape tip. It could sound like that if the mounting screws are loose, but I'd be wary. A worn out stylus can damage records.
neo

jarcher · « **Reply #39 on:** 13 Apr 2013, 03:36 am »

Folks, seems like good advice focusing first on the cartridge and preamp for bang for buck improvement, but I'm not buying a Denon + Technics topping a VPI Traveller. Not that these aren't decent tables, but they are in a pretty seperate price category to begin with. Let's not get carried away...