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Dearest rooze,Once upon a time, I asked Jeff Dorgay, the editor of Tone Audio the very same question as the OP. Jeff has been around the block and has numerous turntables at his disposal and also does head to head comparisons and then changes only 1 parameter, like the arm, cartridge or table itself to illustrate these differences. Of course he is a reviewer and the skeptics may advise to take his opinion with a grain salt. However, in my experience, I do not believe his advice is hyperbole as he has not steered this newbie wrong. I am very much of a neophyte, so here are my $.02, or actually Mr. Dorgay's through a private PM where he provided me his valued opinion on the VPI Traveler vs. Clear Audio Concept vs. Rega RP6:Hi there:These three tables are all excellent. I hate to sound like I'm dodging the bullet here, but to put it shortly, the RP6 has a bit faster, zippier,more "PRAT" approach to it's delivery. The Traveler has its DNA rooted in the Classic 1 heavily. Think more weight and warmth. The Concept is honestly right in the middle. It's got a lot of the detail of the RP6, but not quite the giddy up of the Traveler. All three are relatively easy to set up and none of them let you adjust all tonearm parameters.Also, you can somewhat offset the different sound with cartridge choice. Where something like the already full bodied Grado carts are a bit too much of a good thing for me on the Traveler, something like the fairly detailed Sumiko Blackbird or Dynavector 17D3 is a bit too much on the RP6, yet putting the Blackbird on the Traveler is amazing... etc etc.Having used all three of these tables quite a bit (and I own both the Classic 1 and the RP6), You'd be tough going wrong with either, again, if it were my choice, I'd think about overall system sound and what voice you prefer to make the final call. Last but not least if you do go the RP6 route, I would highly suggest a Groovetracer sub platter, it will take the RP6 a few clicks better in terms of speed stability and low level detail resolution.Hope that helps...Best,Anand.
Thanks Anand, that's actually a big help. The Traveler is right in my budget, and from the description (more weight and warmth) is exactly where I want to be. I think my next task will be a trip to my dealer to hear the Traveler and the Clearaudio Concept side by side.I can't thank everyone enough for the advice and for opening up a variety of options. As jimdgoulding just said, I'm going to be having some fun real soon!I was a little on the cusp of taking the plunge before starting this thread, now it's a done deal.CheersRooze
With that thought I'm steered towards some of the new TT 'package' deals. For example, the Marantz TT15S1 is a good package deal. When you look at the cost of the cartridge and the arm, it's almost like they're throwing in the TT for free. There are a couple others I've looked at with more compatible cartridges (LOMC), that seem to make a lot of sense.Whew. What to do?
Rooze, daddy, before I became discontent with what I have, I would first examine what is perceptively wrong and what could be improved upon. What is perceptively wrong, dude? Might we be a little bored with our playback? Do we think that we need to make some changes to our reproductive system (as in hifi, you know) cause we think it would make us happier? Our room and/or placement of our speakers? Do we miss the discovery from our youth? Have I missed something? Your Linn table and tonearm are fundamentally sound in any system today, imo. I should have them. Have you given any thought to speaker placement or replacement? Just ask and you shall receive. It probably ain't your table and cartridge, mate, if it's anything at all cept for maybe an old bean longing for the latest, it is probably elsewhere. Well, alignment always need to be considered. Make no mistake, it's my golden good will that is intended here.
I was in the same place you were and on about the same budget a couple of years ago, the only difference is that I was and still am a big fan of my CD collection and still enjoy it immensely. I always wanted to go with the VPI Classic, but by the time I factored in even a basic cartridge, I was outside my budget. I ended up coming upon a barely used Concept with a Maestro cartridge on Agon for around $1400. The table has served me well as I restarted my vinyl collection. About six months ago I picked up a used MiniMax phono stage and that has added to my enjoyment. Perhaps in a year, (or maybe when my tax return check comes in a month ) I'll sell my Concept rig and might move up a bit and go for that VPI I always wanted, but I have absolutely no regrets about where I started my reentry into vinyl. The Concept has performed extremely well for its price point.
Rooze,I doubt if any of these tables you're thinking of, could compete with the LP12/Ittock you had. But maybe it doesn't have to. Maybe the sound would be good enough that one of them would be acceptable, at least for now and possibly well into the future, that it would be a good first step. I really can't say that with confidence, but keep an open mind. You have to realize that the Ittock alone was $1K back in the '80s and was competitive with other $1K arms. That's not even looking at the table. These "price point" entries may be cleverly constructed, but the Linn platter is probably worth more than the entire one of those tables. I doubt if that's an exaggeration. Your criteria of being as good as your old table is unrealistic. After I sold my LP12, I had a Goldmund. None of the tables I've had since, are as good as either one, but I can get them to sound decent. If you'll be bummed if the new table doesn't live up to your expectations, you should hold off for now. I think you should start playing records again even if it's not quite as good. neo
Thanks for the feedback Scotlynn,How did you assess its performance alongside your CD system? Better/worse/equally enjoyable just different etc.Can I ask what you had/have for a CD player, amp/speakers when you brought home the Concept? That will help with some perspective on performance. The Concept is one of the decks I have available for audition at my dealers, but it's always hit and miss hearing something in a strange system...CheersRooze
Hey Rooze,I just did a review of a new pair of speakers I purchased in which I lay out my current set up. You can find it here:http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=113912.0For me the assessment of cd to lp is not an easy one; it's literally on a recording-by-recording basis, but in general I would say its both different AND equally enjoyable. Case in point - I have Stevie Ray Vaughan on both vinyl and SACD. They both sound great. The vinyl gives me a little more gritty realism that matches perfectly with his delivery, while the SACD gives his guitar playing an edge that is electrifying. If you forced me to generalize, I find that my approach to vinyl vs digital is increasingly becoming one of genre, more than any other factor. I love 70's classic rock on vinyl - the sound, the feel, the whole experience. Yes' Fragile just makes sense to me on the TT. (I'm convinced that its, at least in part, an emotional thing because I grew up in the 70's with a rickety Dual, a load of beat-to-hell Yes/Bowie/Stones/Mott the Hoople records and a big bag of really cheap weed.) I played a original vinyl pressing of Bowie's Station to Station the other day that floored me. Then again, I've heard some original pressings and reissued 180g releases that are just crap. Just broke the shrink wrap on a new, 180g release of Robin Trower's Bridge of Sighs yesterday, waiting to blast "In This Place" and can't tell you what a let down it was - muddy and muted. (It might have just been a bum pressing, but I'm returning it.) I'll pull out my original today to compare. Jazz, I lean vinyl. Blues, vinyl.I listen to a lot of post rock and put on a great Explosions in the Sky LP last week. Didn't work for me. It wasn't a bad recording, I just felt that the CD was more attuned to Explosion's approach. Same with a lot of modern classical/electroacoustic/ambient things I listen to. I also lean towards digital for classical, but like LP's for opera. Sorry - perhaps not much of an answer because I'm all over the place and keep my options open. I do, though, hear you about the issues with digital playback. I do tend to try and keep my digital on the "soft" side. I use Mullards and Black Treasures in my Modwright. I have Psvanes in my amps. I had to stay away from silver cables in my new planars. For me, the Concept gives me everything I need for now in an analog deck. I'll move on at some point, but have no regrets picking it up to get back into vinyl and as a way to broader my listening experiences beyond a purely digital approach. I don't ever see one supplanting the other, and, with so many variables, there's always room for tweaks and improvement.
With respect to buying used at your $1800 budget....If you are patient and diligent in your shopping, something exceptional will appear. For example.......I religiously scour the used markets, and in the past two months I've seen two complete setups (exc condition) that were absolutely smokin' deals. In both cases I was communicating / negotiating w seller, hemmed and hawed a bit too long, and they both got bought out from underneath me.Kuzma Stabi table + Kuzma Stogi Reference arm + Sumiko Celebration cartMSRP: $7500 ask price: $1800. sold in three days.Scheu Premier mk1 table + Moerch UP-4 arm + Shelter 501 mk2 cartMSRP: $6050ask price: $1575 sold in less than two daysInsane values at around 25% of list, and I venture to say both setups will beat just about any digital rig. Additionally, I suspect they will also probably beat most, if not all, of the analog setups rec'd in this thread. (IMHO fellas, calm down).I admit to being partial to Kuzma, as I own and love the very excellent Stogi Ref arm. So given a choice of the two, I'd pick the Kuzma setup. Still regret dragging my feet and missing out on that one! The point is, with patience and a constant eye on the used markets, your budget can definitely buy you the SQ you seek. Good luck in your search!
