Bryston and PMC Owners Club Meetup, March 16th @ HiFi Lounge!

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bobNL

  • Jr. Member
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  • Some say he's a purist

Vipers

Re: Bryston and PMC Owners Club Meetup, March 16th @ HiFi Lounge!
« Reply #101 on: 11 May 2013, 12:25 pm »
Take lots of pictures please. :bounce:

james

Your wish is my command James :)

I took over 500 pictures over the 2 days, I have wrote the below summary for the new Fact.12's for anyone who is interested, I should also point out that the Fact.12's where being powered by Bryston 28B SST2's, an SP3 and a BDP/BDA combo, so no wonder they sounded so amazing :)

I will post some pics of the more weird and wonderful later.

PMC Launch The Stunning New Fact.12 Speaker!

Hi Everyone,

Well I’ve just got back from Munich for the launch of the new Fact.12 speakers from PMC, it has certainly been an interesting couple of days, the Munich High End show really is something quite special and has been a real eye opener into the world of the what a weird and whacky world HiFi can be, the pinnacle being an amp twice the size of me that opens up like a transformer to display all the connections and inner workings, I’ll post some pics later, quite amazing though. One thing that struck home though was that although there is some really crazy kit out there that costs an absolute fortune it doesn’t make it good, I lost count of the amount of times I walked into a room worth many 10’s of thousands of pounds only to leave uninspired by the cold, clinical, lifeless sound, just goes to show how good Britain is at making hifi that actually makes music, every time I went back into the PMC room it was like the comfy slipper syndrome, it sound sounded so right and musical, helped by the fact that they weren't playing flute or classical music I guess. So I Just want to say a massive thanks to PMC for giving me the opportunity to join them at the show, as being new to this trade it was a real eye opener and very educational.

Anyway onto the main event, the FACT.12, I spent many an hour listening to these over the last 2 days and to be honest I don’t know where to start, obviously being a FACT.8 fan I had high hopes and unless PMC had made a horrible mistake they were going to be good, but in all honesty I never thought they could be this good, especially considering the cabinet size, only slightly taller and deeper than the FACT.8 but producing a sound that is quite spectacular, they really have defied the laws of physics and somehow created a tardis speaker in my opinion, you almost expected a far larger speaker to be hidden behind the graphics behind the speakers, in fact the most common question Tom had to face was ‘So where is the sub hidden?’

Like many others I thought when they were announced at £11,995 it was going to be a tough sell, I was hoping for under £10k really, but I know that once people have experienced these speakers they will agree with me that they are worth every penny, if not more to be honest. I guess it is expected for me to say they are great but I met a guy in the PMC room who had been into HiFi Lounge to demo the MB2 SE’s a month or so ago, he had spent 2 days at the show and declared that the PMC room was amongst the 2 best sounding rooms at the show, the other room was ‘Living Voice’ which are rather large and expensive horn speakers, so for the relatively small FACT.12’s to get an accolade as that from someone, shall we say, more impartial than me, just shows how good the FACT.12’s are.

The FACT.12’s are a total new design compared to the FACT.8’s, only the tweeter remains, now being a big fan of the PMC 75 mid and very accustomed to it I was really keen to hear how the new 2” mid range would compare, in all honesty I really couldn’t hear much, if any difference, obviously it is difficult to draw an exact conclusion until I have the FACT.12’s in here to listen to in a room I know but there was that familiar richness to vocals that the PMC 75 is so well known for and considered by many to be the best mid range cone available, it may be smaller but you wouldn't know it.

More of a shock to me was the bass performance, the new bass drivers really are quite amazing, many times I would be chatting at the back of the room and this low bass note would come in and everyone would stop in their tracks and look at the speakers in disbelief that those small speakers at the front of the room just produced such a low, rich bass note, but the real star is the speaker as a whole, everything about the sound is so natural, full, rich and effortless with great imaging, separation and great integration across all the drivers, I can only imagine how much work went into getting the crossover so right.

How does it compare to the bigger IB/MB PMC speakers? it is hard to compare directly as the FACT has always been able to do things that the bigger PMC’s couldn’t do, like the clarity and speed, but what PMC have created in my view is a speaker that has all the key attributes of the FACT.8 but really fleshed it out giving a fuller, richer sound, more organic whilst retaining that insight and clarity.

I think PMC really do need to be applauded here, as far as I’m concerned they have developed the perfect domestic loudspeaker as it gives big performance like the IB2i, although not the same, but in a cabinet that most people could get away with in their living room. Personally when I’m in a position to build a hifi at home again I always imagined a pair of MB2i’s but I know now that it would be the FACT.12’s for me as they are such a pretty speaker with an amazing full sound that will just vanish into the room compared to any other speaker I know that can perform at this level.

I hope this hasn’t come across as overly keen and people thinking that I just want to sell a few pairs and PMC took me out to the show so I owe them a good reveiw, OK, so I am a little biased to all things PMC, but as an enthusiast I really never thought that the FACT.12 could perform at the level it does, they really are very impressive.

Walking round a show like the High End show in Munich you see many kinds of speaker designs of all shapes and sizes but there really is nothing like the FACT range of speakers, some rooms had huge speakers in that could really only disappoint in reality, where the FACT.12’s won was that it was a very simple display with just the speakers up front and no whacky electronics and there was no mistaking what you were in the room listening to which really helped add to the disbelief that such a huge, full sound was coming from those quite un-assuming speakers in front of the display, great idea :)

In the end, although I liked the white finish I decided to go with the Walnut for demo, so as soon as my demo pair arrive I will be holding a FACT.12 open day as I will be really interested to hear what other people think, but everyone that left the PMC room at Munich all seemed to agree that the FACT.12 was very good indeed as many of them commented.

PMC are hoping to start production by the end of June, so all being well I will have my pair by mid July, although being that this is a brand new speaker made up from many parts PMC are keen to stress that this date could possibly change, fingers crossed it doesn’t though as I really can’t wait to get them in here to really put them through their paces against the MB2 SE’s :)

Here are a a few pictures of the  Fact.12’s, I will also be blogging some other news stories from the show over the weekend, along with some pictures of the weird and wonderful from Munich, I’ve also just added the promotional video PMC have done for the Fact.12 -

http://youtu.be/aKrsE4Sh8qs













I will go through the rest of my pictures later from Munich and post on here, some very bizarre kit but also some very sexy kit :P

James Tanner

  • Facilitator
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  • The Demo is Everything!
    • http://www.bryston.com
Re: Bryston and PMC Owners Club Meetup, March 16th @ HiFi Lounge!
« Reply #102 on: 11 May 2013, 12:50 pm »
Super :thumb:  --- thanks Vipers - glad you enjoyed the show and I agree price does not necessarily equate with quality audio.

james

Vipers

Re: Bryston and PMC Owners Club Meetup, March 16th @ HiFi Lounge!
« Reply #103 on: 12 May 2013, 08:38 am »
Super :thumb:  --- thanks Vipers - glad you enjoyed the show and I agree price does not necessarily equate with quality audio.

james

In all honesty James I didn't realise that HiFi could cost as much as some of the kit on show at Munich, OK it glistened nicely with all its gold trim and flashing dials but I'm a firm believer in less is more :)

I'm sitting here getting withdrawal symptoms at the moment, I need another Fact.12 fix :roll: I don't think I have been this excited by a new speaker since I first heard the big PMC's a few years ago, although I haven't heard the Model T's yet  :wink: I don't want to keep on about it but the 12's really do something quite special, adding that 2" mid range cone along with the high end bass drivers really has created something quite unique, I can't wait to start getting the chance to demo them to customers, I think everyone is going to be quite surprised that this level of performance can come from such a discrete cabinet.

Until I get my next Fact.12 fix these pictures will have to do to help keep the shakes at bay, I have just found them on a Memory stick given to me by PMC all about the Fact.12, slightly higher quality than mine I have to say but you can never get enough Pictures :)

I have also now added the Fact.12’s to my website if anyone would like a look -

http://hifilounge.co.uk/pmc-fact-12














saveloy

Re: Bryston and PMC Owners Club Meetup, March 16th @ HiFi Lounge!
« Reply #104 on: 12 May 2013, 11:13 am »
Hey Vipers,

You sound flabbergasted, mate.

Kyri

Vipers

Re: Bryston and PMC Owners Club Meetup, March 16th @ HiFi Lounge!
« Reply #105 on: 13 May 2013, 09:20 pm »
Hey Kyri,

Mate, it has been a long time since a speaker has got me this excited, saying that I need to keep my enthusiasm in check until I get my pair at HFL so that I can sit back with them and listen to some of my favourite music, saying that, man, these speakers rock :thumb:

In preparation for the new PMC Fact.12 arriving at HiFi Lounge in a few weeks time I couldn't resist using the opportunity to create a new banner for my homepage.

Keep checking back for a date for our Fact.12 open day, hopefully it will be around Mid July but being that this is such a new speaker with all new components then it is hard to pin an exact date down at this time, fingers crossed though and judging by the calls I have had today regarding this new speaker it looks like PMC will have yet another hit on their hands, and rightly so :)


bobNL

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 130
  • Some say he's a purist
Re: Bryston and PMC Owners Club Meetup, March 16th @ HiFi Lounge!
« Reply #106 on: 13 May 2013, 10:46 pm »
Hi Paul,

Great reporting! Nice banner too!

Have you seen the 8 and 12 side by side?
How much bigger would you say the 12 is?

Cheers,
Bob

Vipers

Re: Bryston and PMC Owners Club Meetup, March 16th @ HiFi Lounge!
« Reply #107 on: 14 May 2013, 03:26 pm »
Thanks Bob, there really isn't much in it between the 12 and 8, the 12's are slightly wider, looking at the specs, by 13mm, they are 80mm taller and 40mm deeper.

basically if you are running Fact.8's at the moment then fitting in a Fact.12 should be no problem at all.

Someone has just pointed out that their sensitivity is 84dB 1w 1m, so it will be interesting to see how well a 4B drives them in comparison to a 7B, luckily I have both so that should make an interesting shoot-out, one thing is for sure they sounded amazing with 1100 watts of 28B flowing through them  :)

saveloy

Re: Bryston and PMC Owners Club Meetup, March 16th @ HiFi Lounge!
« Reply #108 on: 14 May 2013, 04:55 pm »
Thanks Bob, there really isn't much in it between the 12 and 8, the 12's are slightly wider, looking at the specs, by 13mm, they are 80mm taller and 40mm deeper.

basically if you are running Fact.8's at the moment then fitting in a Fact.12 should be no problem at all.

Someone has just pointed out that their sensitivity is 84dB 1w 1m, so it will be interesting to see how well a 4B drives them in comparison to a 7B, luckily I have both so that should make an interesting shoot-out, one thing is for sure they sounded amazing with 1100 watts of 28B flowing through them  :)

That caught my eye initially; much lower than the PMC norm.  And quite poor by today's standards.  It's saying something, though, that they sing & can cope with the mighty 28s. 
I think a 4B will be fine, but feel that it won't do them justice.  At the very least two 4Bs driven in mono would be my starting point.  So the realistic/sensible combination is fact 12 & 7Bs.

Kyri

barnold1

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 7
Re: Bryston and PMC Owners Club Meetup, March 16th @ HiFi Lounge!
« Reply #109 on: 15 May 2013, 05:00 am »
Cheers!

Vipers

Re: Bryston and PMC Owners Club Meetup, March 16th @ HiFi Lounge!
« Reply #110 on: 15 May 2013, 01:53 pm »
That caught my eye initially; much lower than the PMC norm.  And quite poor by today's standards.  It's saying something, though, that they sing & can cope with the mighty 28s. 
I think a 4B will be fine, but feel that it won't do them justice.  At the very least two 4Bs driven in mono would be my starting point.  So the realistic/sensible combination is fact 12 & 7Bs.

Kyri

Yeah I think you are probably right to be honest Kyri, the 7's and 12's should prove a very popular combination.

Just seen that Fact.12 news is starting to filter around the net, here are a couple of links if anyone would like a read -

PMC fact.12 Loudspeaker | CANADA HiFi Magazine

PMC launches flagship fact.12 speaker at High End Show | whathifi.com

saveloy

Re: Bryston and PMC Owners Club Meetup, March 16th @ HiFi Lounge!
« Reply #111 on: 15 May 2013, 03:43 pm »
Vipers,

My mate, Simon, texted me on Sunday.  He informed me that he was sat listening to music & in need of some tissues.  He went on to say that he couldn't believe what his ears were telling him; he was uncharacteristically floored.
Where was he?  In the PMC room at the High End Show!!!
He insists that I purchase a pair.

Kyri

Vipers

Re: Bryston and PMC Owners Club Meetup, March 16th @ HiFi Lounge!
« Reply #112 on: 15 May 2013, 04:12 pm »
Vipers,

He insists that I purchase a pair.

Kyri

I can certainly help you in that area mate, I will even travel the many miles to deliver them for you, your friend is not the only one who has commented that the PMC room was the best room at the show.

I ordered mine my Fact.12's in Walnut today, I thought I'd go for white but my I just love the walnut finish, so job done, now the wait begins.

Rather than clog this thread up with random pictures I have posted the final pictures from the Munich Show on my blog if anyone would like a look, you have to see the 'Opera Only' amp, it is twice as tall as me, kicks out 60,000 watts of pure class A apparently, and opens up like a transformer, I've also uploaded a link to a video so you can see it in action -

http://hifilounge.co.uk/index.php?route=information/communities

So Kyri, what finish mate?

saveloy

Re: Bryston and PMC Owners Club Meetup, March 16th @ HiFi Lounge!
« Reply #113 on: 15 May 2013, 11:13 pm »
I can certainly help you in that area mate, I will even travel the many miles to deliver them for you, your friend is not the only one who has commented that the PMC room was the best room at the show.

I ordered mine my Fact.12's in Walnut today, I thought I'd go for white but my I just love the walnut finish, so job done, now the wait begins.

Rather than clog this thread up with random pictures I have posted the final pictures from the Munich Show on my blog if anyone would like a look, you have to see the 'Opera Only' amp, it is twice as tall as me, kicks out 60,000 watts of pure class A apparently, and opens up like a transformer, I've also uploaded a link to a video so you can see it in action -

http://hifilounge.co.uk/index.php?route=information/communities

So Kyri, what finish mate?

Haha.  Well, when I'm ready it's going to be Graphite poplar.  I absolutely adore that finish. 

Kyri

Vipers

Re: Bryston and PMC Owners Club Meetup, March 16th @ HiFi Lounge!
« Reply #114 on: 16 May 2013, 08:22 pm »
Good choice, apparently Tiger Ebony is the most popular finish in the Fact range, to be honest they all look good don't they?

Good luck with the house move tomorrow mate, looking forward to the house warming party :wink:

saveloy

Re: Bryston and PMC Owners Club Meetup, March 16th @ HiFi Lounge!
« Reply #115 on: 16 May 2013, 08:59 pm »
Thanks mate.  It's strange seeing all my hi-fi in boxes.  And I've been up to my ears in other boxes all week.  I hope I get settled in quickly, so I can get the BBQ sparked up soon!

Yes, all of the finishes are lovely.  But there is something about that grey poplar which tickles me. 

Kyri

Vipers

Re: Bryston and PMC Owners Club Meetup, March 16th @ HiFi Lounge!
« Reply #116 on: 30 May 2013, 07:00 pm »
Sorry for the slow reply Kyri, just got back from Naples, very interesting place, especially the drivers, all nutters the lot of them, we crashed the hire car though so we did our best to fit in :?

Hope the move went smoothly? don't think we'll be seeing the BBQ much this summer though.

Yes I have to agree the Graphite is my favourite finish but as my Fact.8's are in that colour I went with the Walnut, they do look lovely also.

Spoke to PMC today and the Fact.12's are still on schedule for a July launch, all being well, so hopefully I can hold my Fact.12 open day towards the end of July, I may give you a private showing though Kyri, if you ask nicely  :wink:

Talking of the Fact.12's here is a list of twelve Fact.12 firsts for those who haven't seen it already -

Twelve fact.12 firsts

  • The first three way fact model
  • The first time a speaker company has worked with the National Physical Laboratory
  • The first use of our new 50mm midrange dome drive unit
  • The first use by PMC of a hollow pole piece in a mid-range dome drive unit
  • The first use of our new 140mm bass drive units
  • The first time PMC has engineered a bass unit with a ‘power bulge’ for extended excursion
  • The first use by PMC of coated alloy cones for low frequency reproduction
  • The first use of a double sided crossover in a PMC speaker
  • The first passive speaker to have a genuine bass lift user option
  • The first twin vent Advanced Transmission Line
  • The first design process led by Oliver Thomas
  • The first speaker from PMC to feature the new white silk finish

saveloy

Re: Bryston and PMC Owners Club Meetup, March 16th @ HiFi Lounge!
« Reply #117 on: 31 May 2013, 12:15 pm »
No worries mate.  Sorry to hear about the crash - it is always annoying when unexpected events like that happen. 

I got back from the continent safely.  As did the car.  Perhaps I can trade: I get that private session & I take you through Eau Rouge as swiftly as possible!




Kyri

Vipers

Re: Bryston and PMC Owners Club Meetup, March 16th @ HiFi Lounge!
« Reply #118 on: 1 Jun 2013, 07:17 am »
I hope you took it flat mate, even in the wet :)


saveloy

Re: Bryston and PMC Owners Club Meetup, March 16th @ HiFi Lounge!
« Reply #119 on: 1 Jun 2013, 12:57 pm »
That photo is actually at the Nurburgring.  This one I'm heading down to Eau Rouge.  At a sensible 110mph.




Kyri