[Conradicles]

Email sent John...

Thanks for your efforts!

[John Casler]

John, I am posting here and emailed some time ago to acquire Neo panels, mid-woofers, tweeters for the RM-V60.
Please keep me in the loop for purchase. Thanks!

Found your e-mail (I think, since your screen name is not in the e-mail and your real name is not in the post/but the geography and speaker model match)

[John Casler]

Yes, it sure looks like the G3.  The faceplate dimensions are 5 7/16" x 2 7/8".  However, these dimensions don't match exactly with any of them.  Unfortunately there is nothing written on the back of them that I can see.  I believe Brian may have gotten these from Parts Express and I know who he placed orders with over there.  I will contact him to check on this.

Dave, I beleive the RM v60 Tweeter is a Fountek, not an Arum Cantus

[Housteau]

I will see if I can call Scott at Parts Express tomorrow.  I had a good talk with him about Brian at Margaritaville during THE Show in Vegas.  Brian was a customer of his and he should remember, or have records of what Brian purchased there.  This looks to be the one in my speakers: 

http://www.ritlab.jp/shop/product/speaker/data/aurum/g3si.html

[Housteau]

I spoke with Scott for a little while this morning.  He is able to list most if not all the items (pots, coils, resistors, drivers, etc.) Brian bought through them recently, but I am not yet certain how far back he can go.  With enough history we may be able to assemble a sort of timeline where we would have a pool of components being ordered by Brian at a time when a particular model was being produced over the years.

For example, within this last year Brian ordered these:

Aurum Cantus G3Si  (276-400)
Beston RT002A        (277-1112)
Dayton   (295-468)
Dayton   (295-206)
Dayton   (295-204)

I will be getting back in touch with Scott to see what he can do for us. 

[gab]

I spoke with Scott for a little while this morning.  He is able to list most if not all the items (pots, coils, resistors, drivers, etc.) Brian bought through them recently, but I am not yet certain how far back he can go.  With enough history we may be able to assemble a sort of timeline where we would have a pool of components being ordered by Brian at a time when a particular model was being produced over the years.

For example, within this last year Brian ordered these:

Aurum Cantus G3Si  (276-400)
Beston RT002A        (277-1112)
Dayton   (295-468)
Dayton   (295-206)
Dayton   (295-204)

I will be getting back in touch with Scott to see what he can do for us.

For those of us ordering empty Larger cabinets with the newly sourced 15" PR that John posted earlier, the subject of what 12" and 15" drivers to use is pertinent. Those last three Dayton part numbers are subwoofer drivers (15" and 12"). The RSS390HF-4 15" Reference driver looks especially interesting. I wonder if Brian had any discussions with Scott about potential PE Dayton drivers for use in his Larger and VSS subs and if these were the ones he and PE deemed most suitable?

I most likely won't be going with the TC Sounds OMG drivers due to cost and cabinet rework. If anyone has info & suggestions as to suitable drivers for these empty Larger cabinets, I'd be most appreciative for your input.

gab

[Conradicles]

I "think" the Eminence LAB15 will work in the VSS box.

Somebody should also run the numbers and see if the Eminence LAB12 would work in the Larger.

Those are very interesting subs and I know Brian used them as upgrades before.

[Fmaxwell]

Great work!  This is just the kind of information that we need.  I'm going to start a new sticky on replacement drivers, adding to to it as we discover other driver information.

I spoke with Scott for a little while this morning.  He is able to list most if not all the items (pots, coils, resistors, drivers, etc.) Brian bought through them recently, but I am not yet certain how far back he can go.  With enough history we may be able to assemble a sort of timeline where we would have a pool of components being ordered by Brian at a time when a particular model was being produced over the years.

For example, within this last year Brian ordered these:

Aurum Cantus G3Si  (276-400)
Beston RT002A        (277-1112)
Dayton   (295-468)
Dayton   (295-206)
Dayton   (295-204)

I will be getting back in touch with Scott to see what he can do for us.

[Housteau]

We have to be careful here.  This is going to be a big puzzle until a lot of data is collected.  Just knowing items Brian had purchased from various venders at a particular time doesn't mean that they were used where we may think.  Brian used a lot of custom items built to his standards.  If these off the shelf parts were used they may have been modified first and then only worked as a one off in a particular situation.  More often then not this will not be a simple plug 'n' play deal.  Also, many of Brian's substitutions required other changes to be made elsewhere.  A lot of investigation will need to be done and it will take a lot time to sort this all out.  I believe the simple fact that since this will not be an easy thing to do is a testament that the speakers we are fortunate enough to own are quite special indeed.

[John Casler]

As per Dave's post above;

Dave and I have been having a discussion about this off-line, and it is imperative that we all recognize that because Brian was a one man show, he was able to change parts and drivers at any time and make them work in the model he was working on.

He didn't often use "off the shelf" drivers, instead opting for versions of some drivers from OEMs or building/modding them himself.

Makes for a difficult task to find replacements, but we can try.  If I was more of a DIY'er or speaker builder I might be more helpful, But that is not my forte.  However, B and I did talk and often about drivers, XO's and various ways to improve the line.

The most recent exception to the no "off the shelf" pattern was the RM-50.  This may have been because Brian was having health issues and it was a simpler path.  Obviously he used 5 Neopanels, but the tweeter bank may have been the BESTON RT002A Dave posted.  As well, he may have used the DAYTON woofers on a couple of the RM50's, and finished off with the 15" BB Passive Radiators.

I cannot validate that the Aurum Cantus could be substituted for the FST, but chances are good that it is the closest thing to what B used.  In the past, many have speculated that was the driver, but while the dimensions look to match, a thread several years ago saw Brian clearly stating that he sourced them from an OEM.  Personally I think we can use the Aurum with reasonable confidence of similar performance.

If I see some comment on replacement drivers, I will offer what history I am aware of, but do be careful.

[bsoko2]

The 15" Ultra Megawoofers are Dayton Audio RSS390HF-4 15" Reference HF Subwoofer 4 Ohm, http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=295-468. I found this out when I was mailed a set of them direct from PE and Brian did confirm that they are the Ultra Megawoofers.

[HAL]

I helped my friend Avoosl with his RM50's after they arrived.  The speakers had considerable issues with the midrange planars not working after shipping.  I helped him with diagnostics and replacement to get them fully back to original condition.  This was with Brian's and John's help with info.  Did lots of DC resistance measurements to sort out the bad drivers and wiring issues.   Brian also sent replacement woofers so that we could restore them to original The Show condition.  The key was measurements to spot the issues.

Might I make a suggestion.  It would seem that someone with a speaker measurement system should make DC resistance, Thiel-Small parameters, impedance plots and frequency response plots of the existing drivers before they are all sold to have examples for use so people can find replacements.   This would be a large task and might need multiple groups to accomplish it.  If examples of drivers are available from customers replacement parts, might be worth the effort to get them measured as well. 

If Brian had the information, it might make the task simpler.  That would be a records search for someone.

This is one way I can see to have real information to help with replacements when time arrises.  This along with the mfg research should help for awhile for replacements. 

[gab]

The 15" Ultra Megawoofers are Dayton Audio RSS390HF-4 15" Reference HF Subwoofer 4 Ohm, http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=295-468. I found this out when I was mailed a set of them direct from PE and Brian did confirm that they are the Ultra Megawoofers.

Bsoko2 - thank you for that information! Any idea what the 12" Ultramegawoofer might be?

gab

[bsoko2]

12" is  the same as the 15" from PE. I have 2 VMPS Large Ultra Megawoofer subs with a 15" TC Sounds PR.

[gab]

12" is  the same as the 15" from PE. I have 2 VMPS Large Ultra Megawoofer subs with a 15" TC Sounds PR.

Thanks Bsoko - PE in their latest catalog show a 4 ohm and an 8 ohm version of the 12" driver (-464 is the 4 ohm version).

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=295-464

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=295-445

Do you know which of these you have in your Largers?

One answer may be the actual amplifier (or amplifiers) you are currently using to power each Larger.

If the 4 ohm version was used in parallel with the 15" driver, that's quite a low load for the amp! The 8 ohm 12" driver in parallel with the 15" driver, not so bad, but still a low impedance for the amp. Looking at the impedance curves on the spec sheets, it looks as though the 8 ohm version bottoms at ~7.25 ohms at 100 Hz (disregarding the sub 5 Hz region where it drops to 6.5 ohms). The 15" shows a 3.8 ohm impedance in the 100 Hz range. So if one were to use the 8 ohm version of the 12" driver and the 15" driver in parallel, the minimum impedance in the 100 Hz area would be roughly 2.49 ohms. I wonder if the Parts Express HPSA1000-R amp can handle this?

Also - did the drivers fit into the Larger cabinet without any surgery being required (routers, etc)? 

I think I am leaning towards each driver being driven separately by its own amplifier, so I will probably choose the 4 ohm version. But I'm not quite ready to stop researching this and pull the plug so I'll wait to see if any other info becomes available in the near term.

I do appreciate your input Bsoko. You have narrowed down the Ultra Megawoofer driver search to really just a couple of questions. Thanks!

gab

[John Casler]

Those may have too large a diameter to fit.  The majority of LARGERS have a diameter of 12.25" for the 12" driver.  The PE are 12.36".

Might be tight.

[gab]

Those may have too large a diameter to fit.  The majority of LARGERS have a diameter of 12.25" for the 12" driver.  The PE are 12.36".

Might be tight.

Yes I think I have answered my questions with this post from Long Ear regarding an email he got from Brian:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=96810.msg971709#msg971709

So to sum it up, the Ultra Megawoofers appear to be:

Dayton Audio RSS390HF-4 15" Reference HF Subwoofer 4 Ohm
Brand: Dayton Audio   |   Model: RSS390HF-4

Dayton Audio RSS315HF-4 12" Reference HF Subwoofer 4 Ohm
Brand: Dayton Audio   |   Model: RSS315HF-4

If using the Dayton Audio HPSA1000-R 1000W Rackmount Subwoofer Amp, wire the two drivers in serial or use another amplifier that is capable of driving a 2 ohm load (like the Crown versions mentioned in the thread).

Surgery is required due to the larger diameter of the aforementioned drivers as John mentions.

gab

[John Casler]

Actually, you have the flexibility to run each driver to a separate set of binding posts.

Then you can power them in stereo.  You should also be able to connect them "in series" from there and run a single amp.

Parallel would give you too low an impedance for most amps.

[John Casler]

We have just come across 3 NOS 15" PR's.

These are NOT BB PR's but of the older variety.  Two are Vitrified one is not.

Should fit all 15" PR openings.

$45 each plus shipping

[EdCam]

John,
I have just written you at bioforce asking to buy the older PRs, the vitrified pair. Thank you for your work helping the VMPS fans.