Best integrated amps for Monitor Audio silver RS6

kinku · « **Reply #20 on:** 25 Jan 2013, 02:58 am »

Davidson..I was just waiting for an A50-T to show up.It did just now in Ebay I bought it for $840 including shipping. Seems like a fair price. Seems like I have to find my own powercord. Any suggestions?

RDavidson · « **Reply #21 on:** 25 Jan 2013, 02:12 pm »

$840 for the A50T shipped is reasonable. Good score! You're in for a real treat.
As far as power cords are concerned, I wouldn't get too carried away.
Just get a good heavy cord. No need to get really spendy.
I suggest these 2 as a starting point. See links below. Note these aren't the most flexible cables around, so if you need them to route through tight places, I may have other suggestions. These are tough to beat for the price.
http://signalcable.com/magicpower.html
http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PGAC9&variation=1

kinku · « **Reply #22 on:** 27 Jan 2013, 04:53 am »

any idea about the Cayin A70T used price? Are they as good or better than A50T?

RDavidson · « **Reply #23 on:** 27 Jan 2013, 05:21 am »

I don't know. My personal experience is only with the A50T. I'm not one to believe newer is necessarily better either.

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #24 on:** 27 Jan 2013, 10:43 am »

kinku...

Since you started two threads seeking an integrated amp...I'm locking your 2nd. thread..."best Tube integrated amps"

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=113564.0

And all comments will continue on in this thread. Good luck in your search...

RDavidson · « **Reply #25 on:** 27 Jan 2013, 04:18 pm »

Kinku, I took a look at the A70t online and I guess it isn't really a newer model than the A50t. With that said, it seems that you're already starting a line of thinking that bigger + more powerful +more expensive = better. You haven't even gotten your A50t. What you need to do is stop, get your gear set up, and listen. I can't stress enough that synergy synergy synergy is key. Throwing together a system made of the most expensive equipment won't guarantee the ”best” sound. A system made of carefully chosen and balanced gear, will almost always win in comparison. And what's more is that you don't have to spend an arm and a leg to get the "best" sound for you. Also, and I stated this before, the RS6's are VERY easy to drive. You really don't need more than 50 high quality watts to make them sing. I've fed them as little as 8 watts and they still played plenty loud and with poise. Get your A50t set up, post your thoughts, and we'll go from there. I can almost guarantee your next move will be to want to upgrade your source(s) and cables, not the amp or speakers.

kinku · « **Reply #26 on:** 27 Jan 2013, 05:45 pm »

Davidson, Unfortunately I have to stepback from that A50T deal since the seller was not describing the item with full honesty.Now hovering around a A70T. I also came across the review (http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0107/cayin_a70t.htm) and cayin A50T (http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0707/cayin_a_50t.htm).So was thinking loud about A70T .Otherwise I would have gone with A50T .Do you think A70-T will have synchrony issues with MA RS6?

RDavidson · « **Reply #27 on:** 27 Jan 2013, 06:14 pm »

Oh I see. Well that stinks. I thought you were already contemplating other options. I'm sure the A70t is a good amp too, but it uses a different tube complement. EL34's, which the A50t uses, are known for their rich harmonics and tonal qualities. I like them a lot. KT88's also have the tube magic, but tend to sound closer to solid state, if that makes any sense. They're more matter of fact. People like both for different reasons. If I were you (given your speakers) I would stick with an EL34 based amp. I have personal experience. I know the synergy is there. EL34's are generally cheaper too, so if you want to play with tube rolling, you'll be better off. As far as EL34 based integrateds, I just don't know a better (modern) way to dive into the world of tubes than with the A50t. Another amp to keep an eye out for is the Rogue Cronus. I would chose it over the Cayin A70t. There are many reviews available for it. It may not sound quite as lush as the A50t, which I think is partially why it works so well with the RS6s, but it seems to me that it would be a lovely combo nonetheless. It is made in the USA and holds it's value very well too.

kinku · « **Reply #28 on:** 27 Jan 2013, 06:28 pm »

I am stuck there with A70T having KT88 and everywhere it says they are more like a solidstate. I am looking for this A70T with manual biasing. I know the newer A70T version has autobiasing for EL34.But I donot know if I can use EL34 on A70T with manual biasing. Then I may change it to EL34 and use it.But I am reading contradictory opinions everywhere.Some says it does some say you can not.VAS guys are not open today.Does anyone knows better?

RDavidson · « **Reply #29 on:** 27 Jan 2013, 07:01 pm »

I have no idea if you can use EL34's with the KT88 version A70T.

kinku · « **Reply #30 on:** 6 Feb 2013, 03:47 pm »

I tried Cayin A70-T with RS6. Really good mid and highs and just enough bass. I feels like it is too low for my taste. The KT88 tubes are old(5-6years) do not know how many hours on it. Do you think its the old tube that makes bass less punchy.

.
I know RS6 is not a good bass producer and tend to be brighter it seems brighter with A70-T too but I am kind of disappointed with lean bass. I am wondering what MAKE are cayins stock KT88 TUBES?Changing to something like tungsols will make any difference?

RDavidson · « **Reply #31 on:** 6 Feb 2013, 04:19 pm »

Actually the RS6s have the ability to produce quite excellent bass. They just can't reach the lows of a subwoofer as loudly or as cleanly. They are spec'd to produce bass down to about 35-40hz and I find this to be true. That's very respectable and is plenty low for most types of music, not including electronic music. I've never been dissatisfied with their bass capabilities and they have the ability to sound quite full and fleshed out with the right partnering equipment. Perhaps what you're now getting is cleaner, less distorted, more detailed bass. Your new amp is a pretty major upgrade from what you were previously using, right?
Curious, why did you go with the A70t? An EL34 based amp is the direction I've been advising this whole time.
I have no experience with the A70t and can't advise you regarding KT88 tubes. I doubt the amp is your problem, though. Lean bass doesn't just make sense.
What are you using as a source?

kinku · « **Reply #32 on:** 6 Feb 2013, 04:29 pm »

I ended up buying A70T thinking I can change the tubes. EL 34 is known everywhere for midrange and I was looking for something even with bass high and mid . I am using Squeezebox touch with built in DAC as source. My prevoius amp/ receiver was Onkyo TX 8255. There is improved sound for sure especially mids( which is louder too) except for the bass,which is cleaner but lacking the presence. KT88 should be better than EL34 as per many reviews for bass reproduction and midrange is closer to EL34. And when A70-T showed up i bought it for 1300$

Ericus Rex · « **Reply #33 on:** 6 Feb 2013, 05:09 pm »

KT88s should not sound 'bass lean'. It may be time to change them. The Gold Lion reissues are great sounding and not uber-priced like some of the newer and trendier KT88 offerings. Are you sure your tubes are properly biased to 40mA-45mA?

I'd look suspiciously at the Touch being the issue here. Do you have a buddy in your area with a good DAC he/she could bring over to let you try? Or maybe a local shop that would let you try a DAC before buying?

kinku · « **Reply #34 on:** 6 Feb 2013, 07:32 pm »

Thanks Rex, but I was using the Touch with my old receiver without any problem. I tried using my turntable with some change in sound properties ,still bass is not on the fuller side. Can aged tube be a problem?

RDavidson · « **Reply #35 on:** 6 Feb 2013, 07:59 pm »

My guess would be that the SB Touch may have been the culprit, but you're running vinyl as well, which should provide excellent sound all around......no loss of bass anyway.
EL 34's aren't known for their bass qualities, you're correct, however blanket statements regarding them (or anything for that matter) can be very misleading. Amp design / architecture plays more of a role in the sound than the tubes alone.
I would go with Rex's advice. Check the bias on all the tubes. If they're holding proper bias after a few days of steady use, then they should be fine.
Assuming you have 8ohm and 4ohm output taps, try switching your speaker cable position. This can make a noticeable difference. Your gut may tell you to use the 4 ohm taps, but remember the speakers are VERY easy to drive. The 8 ohm taps will have no problem providing enough power to the RS6's.
I have found the preamp tubes to make just as much of a difference in sound as the output tubes. If your output tubes are still strong, I'd look at rolling some driver tubes first, personally.

kinku · « **Reply #36 on:** 6 Feb 2013, 08:39 pm »

Thanks guys.I was told by Steve from VAS to set the bias at 0.4V ,I was keeping it at 0.398

.I increased to .42V and yes,I can hear the bass now

.But still I am missing that body.. I do not know whether to bias set up should be done with Touch connected and not running any music or totally disconnected from A70-T? I can hear more dynamics and warmth with new bias setting. The previous bias setting was giving me a headache too. Can going up on bias will do any better?
I am connected to 8Ohm terminal and biwired.What is your setting Davidson?

RDavidson · « **Reply #37 on:** 6 Feb 2013, 10:10 pm »

Upping the bias too far beyond the recommended spec will shorten tube life, but many will attest that it can provide better sound. Your setting should be fine. I just wouldn't tweak it too much more. I'm a little surprised you can hear that much difference between .398 and .42. I'm really beginning to wonder if your tubes are indeed ready for replacement. I would keep checking the bias every 2-3 of days. If you have to keep adjusting it (turning bias up) then it is probably tube replacement time.

When I had my A50T, I was running off the 4ohm taps. I never even tried the 8 ohm taps because I was content with the initial choice. I always biased the tubes to factory spec without any sources playing. Never needed to goose them beyond spec. I don't think having a source playing while adjusting will hurt anything, but I would defer to an expert on the matter. I never had anything playing while biasing.

I'm still at a loss as to why you're getting lean sound. Make sure your binding posts are clamped down on your cables nice and tight. My A50T didn't have the most amazing bass, but it certainly didn't lack fullness. If anything, it was just a tad loose and slightly recessed in comparison to the mids. Highs were also slightly recessed in equal measure, but this balanced out well with the RS6's excessive treble energy in excellent fashion. I could easily listen for hours with zero sense of fatigue. Just a very natural sounding setup. It did well with about all types of music. Vocals and small ensembles were spooky realistic. I would think the A70T would provide a very similar experience, but with more solidity (though perhaps with a little less velvety smoothness) due to the KT88's.

RDavidson · « **Reply #38 on:** 6 Feb 2013, 10:11 pm »

Quote from: RDavidson on 6 Feb 2013, 10:10 pm

Upping the bias too far beyond the recommended spec will shorten tube life, but many will attest that it can provide better sound. Your setting should be fine. I just wouldn't tweak it too much more. I'm a little surprised you can hear that much difference between .398 and .42. I'm really beginning to wonder if your tubes are indeed ready for replacement. I would keep checking the bias every 2-3 of days. If you have to keep adjusting it (turning bias up) then it is probably tube replacement time.

When I had my A50T, I was running off the 4ohm taps. I never even tried the 8 ohm taps because I was content with the initial choice. Definitely try the 4ohm taps. I always biased the tubes to factory spec without any sources playing. Never needed to goose them beyond spec. I don't think having a source playing while adjusting will hurt anything, but I would defer to an expert on the matter. I never had anything playing while biasing.

I'm still at a loss as to why you're getting lean sound. Make sure your binding posts are clamped down on your cables nice and tight. My A50T didn't have the most amazing bass, but it certainly didn't lack fullness. If anything, it was just a tad loose and slightly recessed in comparison to the mids. Highs were also slightly recessed in equal measure, but this balanced out well with the RS6's excessive treble energy in excellent fashion. I could easily listen for hours with zero sense of fatigue. Just a very natural sounding setup. It did well with about all types of music. Vocals and small ensembles were spooky realistic. I would think the A70T would provide a very similar experience, but with more solidity (though perhaps with a little less velvety smoothness) due to the KT88's.

kinku · « **Reply #39 on:** 7 Feb 2013, 02:05 am »

Thank you. I tried hooking up to 4 there is some change, for better. Still will not say a significant change. The sound has more balanced out now. How much change in bias voltage you will consider as a sign of impending doom?
Mine was holding constant for few hour interval when I checked today. Do not know what make Cayin tubes are . Any idea?