[Ericus Rex]

I am no expert on NOS but those look like GE to me.

[kinku]

Thanks Rex It is not NOS.it is the one I got it with amp. No other details on them.Perhaps it is GE

[rollo]

Kinku just got a Cayin tube integrated very recently. You actually made this exact same Marantz suggestion a couple of months ago (before he bought the Cayin), but again haven't provided model numbers or any other useful info. If you know of a Marantz integrated that can truly compete with the Cayin, for around the price Kinku paid, I think anyone watching this board would like to know.

  Good for him, was not following thread. My bad I guess. BTW just FYI I purposely did not mention a model so he would investigate.


charles

[lonewolfny42]

Good for him, was not following thread. My bad I guess.

YEP....please read the thread before typing Charles... (It's not that long... )

[Ericus Rex]

Thanks Rex It is not NOS.it is the one I got it with amp. No other details on them.Perhaps it is GE

It's certainly not current production.  I'd send a PM with a link to your pic to ltr317.  Paul should be able to tell you what it is.

[rollo]

YEP....please read the thread before typing Charles... (It's not that long... )

  Man this is a tough room.  Just trying to be helpful 


charles

[kinku]

Thanks Rex. I appreciate all your help.

[ltr317]

Images of 12AU7 tubes in my cayin. Seems like they are 5814A.Does anyone know what their makes are?

I'm not a 100% sure but they look like GE tubes, based on the stencil and construction.  They certainly are not Raytheon, Tung Sol or RCA.  They could be Sylvania from the construction but the stenciling would be different.  Back in the days when tube equipment was popular, not just for audio but for many applications sometimes a tube manufacturer could not meet its quota and would have to buy from other manufacturers.  If they did, they would relabel another company's tube as their own.  So it could be a GE or a Sylvania but I'm leaning to GE.  Without additional markings or codes I can't be absolutely sure. 

[RDavidson]

The construction looks very similar to a set of GE 5751 black plates I once had.

[kinku]

 This tube make the sound from MA RS6 less bright for sure,compared to clear tops but also takes  away some upper frequencies and make sound a little recessed.Kind of  understanding "there is not a single tube that does it all" 
Again it is hard to say since I am consistently waiting for a period of about 30-60 minutes after turning on the amp before things get settled and clear up.

[Ericus Rex]

I'm not a 100% sure but they look like GE tubes, based on the stencil and construction.  They certainly are not Raytheon, Tung Sol or RCA.  They could be Sylvania from the construction but the stenciling would be different.  Back in the days when tube equipment was popular, not just for audio but for many applications sometimes a tube manufacturer could not meet its quota and would have to buy from other manufacturers.  If they did, they would relabel another company's tube as their own.  So it could be a GE or a Sylvania but I'm leaning to GE.  Without additional markings or codes I can't be absolutely sure.

The rather flat dome on the glass also reminds me of earlier GE tubes.

[RDavidson]

I think there are tubes that exist that can give you everything you want sound wise (or at least their compromises are not obvious) but those tubes also tend to cost quite a bit.
These Create Audio 12ax7's and 12au7's are excellent from everything I've read. They are probably the best new production tubes of their kind available.
http://www.aloaudio.com/?subcats=Y&status=A&pshort=Y&pfull=Y&pname=Y&pkeywords=Y&search_performed=Y&q=Tubes&dispatch=products.search

[ltr317]

This tube make the sound from MA RS6 less bright for sure,compared to clear tops but also takes  away some upper frequencies and make sound a little recessed.Kind of  understanding "there is not a single tube that does it all" 
Again it is hard to say since I am consistently waiting for a period of about 30-60 minutes after turning on the amp before things get settled and clear up.

That is right, so you have to decide in the end which tube strengths are more important and which deficiencies are less important, and only then can you decide on a tube to use.

[kinku]

An important update.Finally I got hands on a Toshiba Gigabeat player connected to pre in of Cayin and started with volume turned down to lowest .I tried with EQ off and On .With EQ on and mid and high attenuated I am getting the response I want.Everything that I want is there . Even with every EQ setting neutral (0 attenuation) it is better than Cayin A70- T pre amp engaged (bright and prominent mids though).Now I am in more confusion.It seems the power tubes are in good shape. It seems like I need a separate pre amp with tone controls!!!!
It sounds so good. Friends whats next.....

[RDavidson]

My feeling is you're likely trading some transparency and resolution for the EQ'd sound you like. Nothing wrong with that as long as you understand what is happening. Not really my cup of tea, but everything in the chain is adding or subtracting from the original signal in some way anyway. To each their own.
Since you're looking to go this route, you could just add an EQ between your preout / main in. The preamp section in the Cayin is likely quite nice electronically, so I think adding an entirely separate preamp, just to have tone controls could be more subtractive than additive, not to mention you could run into compatibility issues (impedance mismatching) which is another can of worms.
I don't have any recommendations on EQ units. Just find one that is well made. Maybe an old Pioneer or Marantz unit would work nicely for you (though I know nothing about them), plus the vintage look would kinda go with your Cayin. You'll have to do some research.

[kinku]

Davidson ,I do not understand what is happening honestly. Is it not the cayin pre amp unit is not working well with Bass settings or is it weakness of speaker system. I do not know tone control vs advantage of equalizer.But even with equalizers off  the bass frequencies came out when I bypassed Cayin's inbuilt pre amp.I am really confused now.

[RDavidson]

Tone controls and Equalizers are the same thing. The difference is if you apply it in the analog or digital domain.
When you adjust the tone controls or the volume digitally (boost some frequencies vs attenuating others) this typically impedes resolution of the original signal in the digital domain. Google search digital attenuation for a full explanation.
Applying tone controls or EQ in the analog domain is different. Assuming you're feeding the analog EQ a full resolution (unaltered) signal, then any signal loss or loss of resolution is solely due to the added electronics in the signal path. This is partially why I recommended adding a well built EQ unit between preamp and amp. Going this route, at least you aren't altering the source signal at the source. Not to mention, this will allow you to use your Cayin remote as you will keep the Cayin preamp in the signal chain. I would do this if I were you because the preamp is built for the amp. Using the EQ in between will allow you to make adjustments to suit your needs regardless of the tubes or circuitry used in the preamp. Also, you'll still be able to use all your Cayin's inputs.
There's a lot of discussion on this topic, but in some cases no preamp can provide the best sound. Removing a component, means less circuitry in the signal chain. This is where passive preamps come into play. They are designed to just pass the signal and provide attenuation. Nothing more. No active circuitry is altering the signal prior to reaching the amp, as is the case with active preamps. Implementing a passive preamp isn't all flowers and unicorns either though as not all amps are compatible (ie don't have enough gain) also not all sources output high enough voltage necessary to drive the amp directly.
You're going to have to read up on all this stuff. Active vs passive preamps. tone controls in analog vs Digital domain. I mean, you're REALLY digging into some of the real complexities of audio playback and the advantages and disadvantages of different approaches.

[kinku]

But Is it not I am introducing a source of noise to signal chain by adding active circuits(equilizer)?

[RDavidson]

Yes. You are correct, but at least you aren't altering the original data when going the analog route. When you alter the signal in the digital domain, you literally lose 1's and 0's.
One of the golden rules of home audio : Do no damage.
I hope you aren't listening to MP3's.

If you read back a bit, this is why I say EQ's / Tone Controls aren't my cup of tea, but I can see where for some people this is an acceptable tradeoff. Again, each piece in a system is adding or subtracting something to the signal. In essence a home audio system is just one big tradeoff from hearing the real thing live. The goal of home audio, in my mind, is to try and reproduce the original performance unaltered as much as possible. Unless you're pretty wealthy, this is a tough uphill climb, but that doesn't mean you can't achieve sound that is natural, satisfying, and realistic to you. If you like the EQ or effect of tone controls, go for it.

[kinku]

I know I need to read,but if I decide to go for EQ what all things should I be looking for like how many bands, S/N ratio?