[dBe]

The RR Pomps and Pipes CD has lots of low frequency if you like pipe organs.

This is Weinberger's Schwanda the bagpiper cut analyzed with Audacity.  Main peak just at 20Hz. 




The large pipe organ in Atlantic City, NJ has a 64 foot stop that has an 8 Hz fundamental.  It is no longer functional, but hope they one day they refurbish it. There is a recording of it.  My understanding is that the organ has a 600HP drive motor.  You just feel that one!

Virgil Fox has a recording on the Wanamaker Organ in Philadelphia. Here is the stop list for that organ:

http://www.wanamakerorgan.com/stoplist.php

Mind blowing!  Check out the pedal stops...

Dave

[HAL]

Dave,
Heard the Wanamaker Organ live in Philly.  It is an amazing instrument!  I WANT BASS! 

[dBe]

Dave,
Heard the Wannermaker Organ live in Philly.  It is an amazing instrument!  I WANT BASS! 

Can you imagine a pedal chord on the 64' stop?  I bet YOU can

Dave

[HAL]

  

[dBe]

Hello???!!!!!!!!

[Rclark]

So it seems like this thread has petered off which tells me: servo subs are not the ultimate, there are several options for bass, whether OB or otherwise. FWIW all you Maggie guys, I have a sealed sub that keeps up great, you are not required to have an OB servo sub mated with your planar...

My take in all this is there is a lot of marketing involved, and perhaps certain companies like Rythmik are overrated. Great product, definitely a top consideration, but not the end all be all. You don't NEED servo for accurate bass. All you need is good engineering.

As has been shown, a well engineered HSU sub is considered just as accurate as a servo Rythmik.

[PDR]

Hmmmm......as all the other posts.....one mans opinion

I know a man with another opinion......

Usually ones formed after hearing whats in question.....some are formed blind.

oh well.....I've never heard Maggies.....theres much better....I've read.....

[Rclark]

PDR Your new Super V build looks amazing. You've never heard planars, well I'll tell you what. After you've finished your build and have had them good and broken in I have no problem trading for a week, I'll send you my Magnestands, you send me your Super V's, and we have a listen.

[stevenkelby]

So it seems like this thread has petered off which tells me: servo subs are not the ultimate, there are several options for bass, whether OB or otherwise. FWIW all you Maggie guys, I have a sealed sub that keeps up great, you are not required to have an OB servo sub mated with your planar...

My take in all this is there is a lot of marketing involved, and perhaps certain companies like Rythmik are overrated. Great product, definitely a top consideration, but not the end all be all. You don't NEED servo for accurate bass. All you need is good engineering.

As has been shown, a well engineered HSU sub is considered just as accurate as a servo Rythmik.

I for one don't see it that way

[jtwrace]

So it seems like this thread has petered off which tells me: servo subs are not the ultimate, there are several options for bass, whether OB or otherwise. FWIW all you Maggie guys, I have a sealed sub that keeps up great, you are not required to have an OB servo sub mated with your planar...

My take in all this is there is a lot of marketing involved, and perhaps certain companies like Rythmik are overrated. Great product, definitely a top consideration, but not the end all be all. You don't NEED servo for accurate bass. All you need is good engineering.

As has been shown, a well engineered HSU sub is considered just as accurate as a servo Rythmik.

Whether it's true or not is irrelevant but how can you make such a statement without ever hearing any servo sub in your system?  And no, servo isn't the only way to roll.   

[HAL]

My take would be that after hearing passive radiator loaded subs, sealed servo subs, transmission line subs and open baffle servo subs in my setup, I would still go for the open baffle servos.   My room is 10' x 16' x 25.2' with four STC83 walls with treatment.  I have lots of room gain for the low end.

The passive radiator style I used with my Maggied IIB's never quite integrated properly.  That was nearly 30 years ago.

Cant say directly that the OB's would do well with the Maggie 2.5's, but they sure sound good in my Super-V's.  Since the servo amp have crossover and PEQ control it should be able to integrate with the 2.5's with some listening and measurements. 

I am about ready to install 6 - 8" servo subs from GR-Research into the speakers I am working on.   Waiting on the new servo amps.  This should be fun! 

Good luck with the decision. 

[Early B.]

My take would be that after hearing passive radiator loaded subs, sealed servo subs, transmission line subs and open baffle servo subs in my setup, I would still go for the open baffle servos.

Yeah, I agree. No other sub I've tried comes close. IMO, the take away from this whole thread demonstrates to me the extent to which people will debate with experts over their designs, and invariably they are the ones who have never heard it. It's like a blind man asking a man with sight what a rose looks like, but the blind man rejects the response and questions what he can't see. I'm astonished that the experts spent so much of their time responding to the questions, many of which were blatantly incendiary.   

[ebag4]

Yeah, I agree. No other sub I've tried comes close. IMO, the take away from this whole thread demonstrates to me the extent to which people will debate with experts over their designs, and invariably they are the ones who have never heard it. It's like a blind man asking a man with sight what a rose looks like, but the blind man rejects the response and questions what he can't see. I'm astonished that the experts spent so much of their time responding to the questions, many of which were blatantly incendiary.   

x2
Well said.

Best,
Ed

[JohnR]

Uh... the "experts" have discovered, in the course of this thread, that they have made several mistakes. I guess the peanut gallery missed all those.

[jtwrace]

I guess the peanut gallery missed all those.

Not this peanut.   

And no, servo isn't the only way to roll.   

[Davey]

It's like a blind man asking a man with sight what a rose looks like, but the blind man rejects the response and questions what he can't see. I'm astonished that the experts spent so much of their time responding to the questions, many of which were blatantly incendiary.   

One of the silliest statements I've seen in this thread.

And who's being incendiary now?  Insulting your fellow AC members for asking questions of/to the "experts" for objective data to back up claims?

Dave.

[PDR]

Rclarck......I've heard planers.....I keep up with the new offerings from Magnepan at my local
Audio shop. Thank God for him, up where I live were lucky to have a dealer that has everything from the the Utopias to the Stradivari and everything in between. I also have a couple of arrays that use small planers or ribbons, although those are a different game.
Just making a point of judging before hearing is all.....the Maggies are nice, and I have the room for them.....just not my cuppa tea.....

No matter what claims are/were made as a point of this discussion, each side seems to think
they have made their argument.....so kind of a stalemate. This as an observation from the gallery...... .......right or wrong.

Really the proof is in the listening, and in satisfied customers. I'd venture most here that own servo set-ups didnt buy them as first time sub purchases.....if like me, more like their umpteenth. For me in my set-up, my room, with a couple of sealed subs in the rear of the room, Its the best I've experienced.  I DIY my first set, happy enough to DIY my second set,
hours upon hours of labour.....that kind of speaks for itself.

[jparkhur]

Rclarck......I've heard planers.....I keep up with the new offerings from Magnepan at my local
Audio shop. Thank God for him, up where I live were lucky to have a dealer that has everything from the the Utopias to the Stradivari and everything in between. I also have a couple of arrays that use small planers or ribbons, although those are a different game.
Just making a point of judging before hearing is all.....the Maggies are nice, and I have the room for them.....just not my cuppa tea.....

No matter what claims are/were made as a point of this discussion, each side seems to think
they have made their argument.....so kind of a stalemate. This as an observation from the gallery...... .......right or wrong.

Really the proof is in the listening, and in satisfied customers. I'd venture most here that own servo set-ups didnt buy them as first time sub purchases.....if like me, more like their umpteenth. For me in my set-up, my room, with a couple of sealed subs in the rear of the room, Its the best I've experienced.  I DIY my first set, happy enough to DIY my second set,
hours upon hours of labour.....that kind of speaks for itself.

PDR.. Thank You.. .   I also like Mexican Food and Americanized Chinese food... 

[Early B.]

One of the silliest statements I've seen in this thread.

Apparently, you haven't read this entire thread. 

[Danny Richie]

Let's if I can sum this up then. And I'll throw in some good quotes that appeared.

I said that at RMAF the Super-V's were hitting 105db peaks in the bottom end and would hit those levels at 20Hz. And I said that they played flat to 20Hz and were -3db down in the teens.

Then I got blah, blah, blah,.... no they can't..... I was accused of being "disingenuous". And "while his GR subs can probably hit 105db, and can also probably play flat to 20Hz, they can't do both at the same time." I was accused of "constant hyping of everything". And let's not forget "servos for OB are basically a gimmick". Then there was "Claims of flat to 20Hz followed by max spl numbers have to be taken with a grain of salt from Danny." And "Post some facts instead of conjecture and marketing BS." Some even tried to find dirt to throw from other forums. And my favorite line is when this one pops up, "Laws of physics..."

We then confirm the claim of 105db peaks in the 20's (in the room at RMAF) with two different high quality measuring systems at the show and have numerous eye witnesses hearing the power of the deep, plus seeing the walls in the hall way nearly coming apart.

Then I get "Should be easy for you to demonstrate with measurements then, right? Let's see them."

So I post measured responses showing that our servo subs do play flat to 20Hz. And by request, I also show measured responses of our new 8" servo subs showing that they will play to 20Hz.

Then I get "Danny, you simply can't break the laws of physics.  A driver "X" has physical limits that no amount of servo control can overcome.  Getting "as much low end extension as you want" is simply equalization.  Nothing more."  And then "If so, the proof is once again simple. Stick a mic at the listening position and play a 20hz tone, or even easier a slow 20-200 sweep at 100db."

Brian tries to explain with technical data, shows Klipple measurements, charts and graphs and it just goes over the heads of most...

And again "Still not a single shred of technical data to demonstrate the claims made about use of servo for OB."

So I set up my Clio measuring system and prove once again that the servo system does exactly what I said it would do and show peaks in music playback hitting 112db and 113db at 26Hz. And not in a small room.

I then measure a continuous sine wave at 20Hz hitting 105db without over driving them. And leaving the levels the same it hits 110db at 25Hz and 105db at 30Hz and 100db at 35Hz, and I could have turned it up even further at the higher frequencies. The room is again not small. 17 by 23 with 9 foot ceilings and open on the back end to the rest of the house. Again they do exactly what I said they would do.

Then the nay sayers try to figure it out by the numbers again as the measured proof is still not enough. Debate, debate...

However they begin to agree with the numbers. "So I would not really dispute the 20 Hz claim but I certainly would support the 30 Hz claim for 100 dB SPL given what I stated above for distance and ear height." And "When I plug the SW-12-16 numbers into a different spreadsheet I get (essentially) the same numbers as Erling." So the numbers for some reason (all of a sudden) support the measured responses. And it is still not believed. "I got 112 dB for four drivers... I better check that." Someone else agrees and says "I will recheck mine also."

Still unbelief and now I get..." And by the way, "graphs" wise, I'm not seeing anything other drivers can't do."   

Then a couple of guys decide they are now going to measure theirs to see what they get. " I'm going to run a similar set of measurements on my OB woofers tonight."  And they weren't even close. "Well, there is definitely some magic in those GR Research drivers. They sure stomped my poor Acoustic Elegance ones. I wimped out for the sake of my drivers at around 85db. Poor babies were having a conniption." And "I'm not sure that I'm game to push the drivers any harder," And "I get some 92 to 93 dB at 20 Hz while cone movement seems to be just about on borders of linear movement which is declared +/- 9 mm for these drivers. All of these are completely eyesight estimates from looking at the back of the cone from the side. "

And finally now the divide is that the guys that have never heard them are still dismissive and still trying to knock them, all while the guys that HAVE heard them are singing a different tune.

I don't think that you guys that have never heard these are really going to get it until you have heard them. Until then you can keep knocking them, but you still haven't heard them.