[Davey]

We can't question/comment if we haven't heard it?  It always boils down to that, doesn't it?

Also, if you're going to "sum up" the thread you should review it and do a better job matching up the quotes with the claims with the statements.  You've picked/choosen your quotes out of context with the appropriate posters questions.  I find that fairly irritating.

Sigh,

Dave.

[Danny Richie]

We can't question/comment if we haven't heard it?  It always boils down to that, doesn't it?

Sigh,

Dave.

I don't mind someone asking questions or asking if I can show some measurements. That's fine.

But what happened was that I was a personally attacked. I was called disingenuous, and accused of marketing BS, and hype. Like I was being some kind of conman or something. Then someone's advanced technology that a patent was awarded for was called a gimmick. And it was insinuated that I was some kind of a snake oil salesman selling gimmicks.   

Really guys?

I don't think I'd be able to build a huge following of happy customers all over the world and win just about every one of this industries highest awards from just about every magazine out there if I were selling gimmicks.

It is just kind of funny to me how the guys throwing rocks are the guys that haven't heard these things and the guys that have heard them are on the other side of the fence.

[jtwrace]

It is just kind of funny to me how the guys throwing rocks are the guys that haven't heard these things and the guys that have heard them are on the other side of the fence.

Yeah but you aren't the only one that's had that happen.  This is audio.   

[AlliumPorrum]

Danny, I think I'm convinced, and GR's is going to get a try from me.

But, what's your opinion; would there be a big difference on 2 per side against 4? Or would 2 x 4 be just overkill?

[Danny Richie]

Danny, I think I'm convinced, and GR's is going to get a try from me.

But, what's your opinion; would there be a big difference on 2 per side against 4? Or would 2 x 4 be just overkill?

Thanks,

It depends on your room size and how much output you are looking for. The impedance of the SW-12-16FR was designed to allow as many as three woofers to be driven with one amp. So it is not much of an additional cost to go from two woofers per side to three woofers per side. You just add another woofer. However, going to four woofers per side means buying two more servo amps. You'd need four amps to power eight total woofers.

I might also add that the sensitivity of the Maggies is not real high. So it may not take too much to keep up with them. 

[dBe]

Yeah but you aren't the only one that's had that happen.  This is audio.   

Yep, think about all of the bashing that Geddes has withstood.  I don't agree with everything he has to say - especially in cabinet construction, but that is just part of the game.  Like you say "This is audio".  It ain't brain science or rocket surgery.  We all have to take our lumps because someone doesn't agree with us.  So what?  We know what we know and we do what we do.  There is always gonna be a guy that throws stones.  It is just a waste of bandwidth to try to address everyone's "issues".  Stuff works or it doesn't, huh, Jason?    And what doesn't work, doesn't stay.

[sfdoddsy]

Actually, I for one haven't changed my opinion of Danny and his marketing practices one whit.

These 'summaries' have reinforced it.

[stevenkelby]

Actually, I for one haven't changed my opinion of Danny and his marketing practices one whit.

These 'summaries' have reinforced it.

X2, Danny has been a gentleman through and through 

[cab]

He has definitely shown a thick skin in the face of some rather insulting remarks....

What kind of output would dual 8" ob servos put out compared to dual 12"?

[dBe]

X2, Danny has been a gentleman through and through 

Actually, I think that you and sfdoddsy are on different sides of that fence, Steve.  I know Danny.  You know Danny.  We know what he says he truly believes and pretty much can back up with numbers.  People have to remember that small businesses exist to serve customers.  In order to do so we small business people have to produce a product that we feel is the best in its' class to be viable.  Nobody wants to buy from someone that says:" I HAVE THE SECOND BEST GIMSWITCH ON EARTH!!!"  When we know that we have a great product, we say so.  This is what drives the audio economy.  Build a better "thing" and sell it to make a living.  I do not and will not publish how my stuff works.  I developed it.  It is my intellectual property and I guard that property very closely. 

Questions are essential.  Experience is a teacher.  When the two come together we have science.  Some just don't believe that we don't know all there is to know.  I sure as hell don't.  I prove it every day.  This short missive is proof of that. 

Dave

[stevenkelby]

I know Dave, I was just showing that his statement could be taken either way.

No worries though, it's hard to admit you're wrong when you invest so much into being right. If people want to continue believing false things about OB subs, servo subs, GR Research, or anything else, that's their business and fine with me.

And if other people want to call them out on it, that's ok too

[JohnR]

Danny, judging from the graphs below, this peak in your room at 25 Hz is at least 15 dB high. I say this from eyeballing the graph for 25 Hz vs 40 Hz.  Is that correct?

Here is 35Hz and 40Hz. They are starting to drop off and level out now. Again this is typical for my room. The 25Hz or so peak for my room can be seen. Not a bad place for room gain.    Even allowing for that you can easily see levels over 100db below 30Hz even at 20Hz.

[JohnR]

We know what he says he truly believes and pretty much can back up with numbers.

I'm still interested in seeing numbers for "stopping power." And in particular, how or why that is relevant when combined with dipole filtering and a lowpass crossover. Gee, some numbers or graphs would be nice.

[JohnR]

No worries though, it's hard to admit you're wrong when you invest so much into being right.

Another statement that can be taken in more than one way, Steve...

[Danny Richie]

Danny, judging from the graphs below, this peak in your room at 25 Hz is at least 15 dB high. I say this from eyeballing the graph for 25 Hz vs 40 Hz.  Is that correct?

I usually get about a 3 to 4db peak in my room at around 25Hz. I see this when measuring single speakers (full range speakers) in my room and it can vary from side to side (left or right) by a db or so depending on exact mic placement. Everything else is pretty flat.

As I measure above 30Hz or so the wavelengths get shorter and some cancellation can start to occur when sending two sources a mono signal. So above 30 or 35Hz each speaker really needs to be measured independently to avoid additional comb filtering issues from multiple sources.

I bet I could move the mic around and find a spot where I got a pretty flat response in up to 40Hz, but I didn't see a point in doing that. The point was to show what kind of levels these can hit way down low. 

[Danny Richie]

I'm still interested in seeing numbers for "stopping power." And in particular, how or why that is relevant when combined with dipole filtering and a lowpass crossover. Gee, some numbers or graphs would be nice.

That would be pretty cool. If I had a 56 foot long anechoic chamber then I might could pull that measurement off for you. And near field measurements do no allow the drivers to be put in motion enough to see any real stored energy. So that doesn't work.

I'll try to see if Brian has an idea of how to show you by the numbers. Right now I don't have the tools to do it.

To bad you aren't here. A listening comparative shows those differences REALLY well.

[jtwrace]

That would be pretty cool. If I had a 56 foot long anechoic chamber then I might could pull that measurement off for you.

You live in the largest flat state in the USA.  Do it outside.   

[lowtech]

Let's if I can sum this up then. And I'll throw in some good quotes that appeared...

<b.s. snip>

And finally now the divide is that the guys that have never heard them are still dismissive and still trying to knock them, all while the guys that HAVE heard them are singing a different tune.

I don't think that you guys that have never heard these are really going to get it until you have heard them. Until then you can keep knocking them, but you still haven't heard them.

Well, I've already offered to take a pair off your hands.  Perhaps taking me up on my offer would convert me from a naysayer to a yaysayer?   

Actually, I for one haven't changed my opinion of Danny and his marketing practices one whit.

These 'summaries' have reinforced it.

+1

[Danny Richie]

Well, I've already offered to take a pair off your hands.  Perhaps taking me up on my offer would convert me from a naysayer to a yaysayer?   

Sure, go ahead and order a set.

[lowtech]

Sure, go ahead and order a set.

That was not my offer.