[gary]

Gee I missed this whole adventure!

Will be interesting to read what the final findings are!

Here's my advice... skip the reading and buy one now.
These guys have it for $280 with free shipping, and mine came three days after I placed the order:

http://www.globalsupersale.com

My Cayin is an amazing amp, it betters any tube amp I've heard in the sub-$1.5k range. I'm now about 95% sure that it's going up on audiogon, if that tells you anything.

Gary

[ABEX]

Gary
   I have a Panny45 at the moment and am in the middle of stting up another system, maybe 2.  This is on my list,but I need to look at it and see where  it will fit in.

Chair Guy
    Been through most of the thread. It was a lot of reading,but worth it!

Dr.D
    Like I mentioned you just need to make certain on directionality of the cable and use Hot Glue for the Eichmann\OTA at the end for Strain Relief. Glad it works well for you as it is very synergistic with all the systems I and others have used it in. With the exception of the freq. extreme's it is almost as good as the Ag cable I sell and best of all it's affordable.
    Works great with these chincey(?) Post that come with the Digi Amps.
www.nearsota.com

THX for the thoughts!

[ABEX]

Where is there detailed run down of what this unit has in it for Connections?

Does it have a Phono Stage and Pre Outs?

I found this:
http://www.digitalfotoclub.com/products3/964592795.asp

Thx!

[gary]

Where is there detailed run down of what this unit has in it for Connections?

Does it have a Phono Stage and Pre Outs?

I found this:
http://www.digitalfotoclub.com/products3/964592795.asp

Thx!

I haven't been able to find any detailed info online, JVC doesn't even have it on their website yet. It might have pre outs, I can't remember (I'll check when I get home), but there's definitely no phono stage. It does have a headphone jack, but the sound coming out of it is just awful.

Gary

[ABEX]

Gary:
    The HP amp is no surprise as the Panny's sucks air also!

I would like to find a unit that has a good phono and analog section with it. I have not had my TT working in quite some time,but these things do great for Digital Sources.

[ooheadsoo]

Can someone take a couple nice big pics of the front and back of the unit?  Thanks!

[TheChairGuy]

Where is there detailed run down of what this unit has in it for Connections?

Does it have a Phono Stage and Pre Outs?

I found this:
http://www.digitalfotoclub.com/products3/964592795.asp

Thx!

ABEX,

No phono, but it has tape (VCR) monitor outs to use for this.  It also has obligatory subwoofer out (the .1 in 5.1).  I have the older RX-ES1SL: Gary has the newer F10, which I think is 6.1.

Info is scarce on either model, JVC-Australia had the only explanation of what Hybrid Digital was....US must be too busy selling TV's and camcorders to care. Thery are missing a little nugget in their line.

ooheadsoo, I am on the road now, but I plan to crack the patient open soon and peer inside...maybe I can remember to take some snaps of it.  The online info, most culled from JVC's site, is poor.  I can tell you it has cheap spring clip speaker taps that you can barely ram 14ga copper in, the cheapest rca's made, a captive 18/2 cord.....and it sounds better than anything you could expect for $179-$280.

I didn't try to headphone outs, as I have good headphone outs on my (modded) Sony transport.

Starnge days indeed we live in...

[Ears]

I would look into modding the power supply before anything else whith better quality,low esr caps, then the signal caps,wiring ect.

I think these JVC's have a fairly high distortion rating and could really benifit from better ps caps.

I don't have a turntable to try and hook up, but if you can hook one up, you can probably hear vinyl in neo 6,pro logic 2 or all channel stereo  

You can listen to any analog or digital source I have tried, and still use affects and the eq.
Another note on the f-10 is you can adjust all channel levels individually, which is something I can actually use as opposed to say, sa-cd in neo 6 mode.

[Grayson73]

Has anyone compared this to the Panasonic SA-XR50 for home theater use?

[ooheadsoo]

If this sucker had main ins, I'd just about die and go to heaven.  Except for losing out on the tuner  

[Richard U]

TheChairGuy,

Help !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I just received my ES1SL and it won't let me adjust anything.In trying to set up the speakers, when you hit the setting button the second time and then turn multijog, it does not show the options. It just scrolls thruough the basic items.

Richard

[TheChairGuy]

TheChairGuy,

Help !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I just received my ES1SL and it won't let me adjust anything.In trying to set up the speakers, when you hit the setting button the second time and then turn multijog, it does not show the options. It just scrolls thruough the basic items.

Richard

Hey,

What are you trying to set up?  It's not exactly intuitive set-up with the ES1, I still refer to the manual to do it.

You hookin gup 2 channel, 3 channel, 5 channel, a subwoofer....it is all configured on teh front faceplate (not remote).  Let me know and I can probably walk you thru it if you are having probelms with it, here or on PM.

First off, if this helps, to just play a CD or DVD thru the JVC, you just turn the Multi-Jog (without pressing the setting button) till it reaches either DVD or DVD Multi (multi channel setup).  The other choices are AM, FM, VCR and TV on the dial.

THEN, for speaker setting and subwoofer set-up (if you need to), Then you gotta' get put 'Setting' button into play a bit and it gets tricky.  Mostly tricky because unless you spin the MultiJog it reverts back to the basic menu...you gotta' act fairly quick to set up and fine tune the little bugger.

Any help...or did you already figure this stuff out once you realized that the JVC is a bit of an ergonomic disaster and not your fault?  

[TheChairGuy]

After a week of break in on my new Exodus amp, with the little JVC crankin' out FM to the rig, I thought I'd re-evaluate the JVC relative to earlier impressions and the Exodus/IRD Purist set-up.

First off, I was a little off at 225 hours last week...it is not fully broken in.  It is certainly mostly broken in, but not fully.  It was a lot more cohesive overall this week than last.

It simply did nothing terribly wrong...particularly considering it was $179.00. It didn't have quite the impact, raw dynamics of the many times more powerful (and pricier) Exodus/IRD, but it had a pleasant midrange presence  and no particularly objectionable quirks on high hats, cymbols, etc.  The bass was digitally excellent..it just kept digging out the grooves; be they Diana Krall or Peter Tosh. It did get 'confused' sounding in dynamic/dramatic passages, but not as much as a $179 receiver should have...and except for that confused sound, it never sounded strident or hard to listen to.

Damn is that remote volume control handy, too.  Flick it and it mutes whenver the phone rings or doorbell rings. Damn, that's nice and handy  

I get chills up my spine with tinny treble (mentioned as a major failing on unmodified Panny's), the JVC (bone stock) suffers from none of the same affliction.  It really is a hybrid design and an acceptable cross of digital and solid state technologies.  JVC is definitely on to something here.

This thing might just be a killer platform for further upgrades to it....I am really pleased to know from Dmason that it improves so dramatically with simple soldering of a nice Belden cord and plug. What more performance could be wrought from this guy with better speaker and RCA outs, revised, higher quality wiring, and some stiffer power supply caps.

Neat stuff to ponder.

[Ears]

There is no.....and I mean absolutely not any tinney treble whith a bone stock Pany 45 in my set up.
Any gear can be made to  sound better whith mods, and that is why people are modding the Panny, not because it has tinney treble and has to be done.
Play any well done recording on a Pany, and then tell me it sounds tinney.

I guess I should mention that the 45 is used whith a VH flavor 4 pc and AP oval 9 speaker cables on the main channels, and that neither of these can be used to help the F-10 out in stock form.
Both receivers are used whith VH's new digital ic or Acoustic Zen MC=2 coaxials, and both are being run through a modified Powervar conditioner.

Colored gear like the JVC's hide or color a lot of nasties in so so recordings,and this can be a good thing, but the Pany puts out exactly what it is fed.

There has never been any bargain gear that was accurate  before the Pany imo, so this accurate sound is new to a lot of people who try one of the Panys.
But tinney...
this could not be any farther from the truth as what there hearing is either there source or recording being heard for what they are....good or bad.
What we are reporting as tubey is actually very high im distortion which produces this tubey sound whith the JVC's.


These receivers are two tottally different flavors so to speak whith the Pany being accurate and the JVC being colored big time, whith rolled off highs and a tubey sounding midrange, caused by very high im distortion.

I happen to like things about both of these digital cheapo wonders, but I also know the difference between accurate and colored sound.

[gary]

Colored gear like the JVC's hide or color a lot of nasties in so so recordings, but the Pany puts out exactly what it is fed.

Out of curiosity, have you heard the JVC RX-F10S?

Gary

[Ears]

Colored gear like the JVC's hide or color a lot of nasties in so so recordings, but the Pany puts out exactly what it is fed.

Out of curiosity, have you heard the JVC RX-F10S?

Gary

I have been listening to it for the past 5 days, and will keep listening until it has 250-300 hours before deciding if I want to keep it.
I did edit my post as to mention the Pany can easily be used whith a better pc and larger gauge main speaker cable.... just to keep my comparison honest.

I also have a Kenwood 7100 ordered as it is also getting raves over at the avsforum.

Greg

[gary]

I have been listening to it for the past 5 days, and will keep listening until it has 250-300 hours before deciding if I want to keep it.
I did edit my post as to mention the Pany can easily be used whith a better pc and larger gauge main speaker cable.... just to keep my comp ...

Oops... forgot about all the other posts you'd made in this thread

I'm not sure what to think of the coloration of the JVC, but I'm inclined to think it's a big part of what I like about it. The highs of my previous Class D amp, the Sony 70ES, sounded pretty amazing but when it came down to it, that is, listening to music I know and love in the dark, the Sony just didn't do it for me. The "magic" wasn't there, it just sounded sterile and analytic and completely un-envolving.

Since then I've switched to tubes - the Cayin TA-30 (which I like a lot) so the "tubey" midrange of the JVC, along with tighter, more controlled bass, more detail on the high end, and the ability to play louder as compared to the Cayin all suit me perfectly. So, I know what I prefer in terms of sound, and I know the JVC is giving that to me, but I'm fully aware of the fact that the way it's doing it may come at the expense of absolute accuracy.

Gary

[Dmason]

This is good reading; A worthwhile debate on the relative merits of some $300 stuff that does such a great job overall. My old Panny 45 powers a pair of Maggie 1.6 and is an excellent match. What it does, it does very well. All those complaints of 45 sounding etched, strident highs are the result of a fresh machine, or one whose PC has NOT been upgraded. Minor but essential.

I guess the reason I prefer the JVC-Tripath-Thermionic sonic is because of the coloration, IMD, even order harmonics and all. What I liked about "The Tempress," that chrome-and-gold shrine to music, my gone but not forgotten extragavance, the Art Audio Jota SET. Color. Now I am using something which required 5% the investment of the Jota, and I actually PREFER it in some ways. Better bass. Highs now going out to the moon. Does it have that almost hallucinogenic lit-from-within vibe about it? No. But it does other things better. I went away for three days, and came back to a new machine, better and more coherent in every way.

I wish the Panny XR70 would come out soon so we can really tear and compare.

[BenF]

Agreed, dmason, an excellent reading thread. And Ears, I very much like my XR45 (HD14G powercord; HD14G speaker cords; Polk RTi28 speakers, unmodded; Sony SCD555ES, firesale acquisition). Not everyone wants exactly what is in the recording to come out. But with the live recordings I have done, I want exactly that and this low cost little rig does pretty well. I do not hear the high end harshness that some complain of, and I can hear the 19K carrier tone on the FM, so my hearing does go high (have to filter it out on recordings off the radio).

I think the sound of a component is based on what a person likes, and sometimes, while people say they want to recreate live sound, they really don't. It is nice to see in this thread that people admit that and don't see it as a negative. Recreated music on a recording does not have to be the same as live. But, that being said, live music is fatiguing after a while. For example, some combinations of instruments on certain notes can be very irritating or the sound is not well integrated or the XX player or section stood out in a disturbing way. This is part of the experience of any live music concert - it is not uniformly smooth and listenable and it is different everytime and with every venue. The variety is incredible. This is good!

Sometimes real is too real for everyday listening. But I like the "accuracy" I think the XR45 brings. I would love to get it modded, but the $$ aren't available. I would really love to be in a low cost receiver comparison between all the flavors. It is like wine tasting .

Best regards, Ben

[TheChairGuy]

Ears,

I've not heard the Panny's myself, I am just citing an oft repeated criticism of bone stock ones...and many digital amps in general.  Bass; great.  Midrange; strong and tubey. Highs; etched, and difficult to listen to long term.  

The JVC suffers from some of these characteristics, too, but it seems a bit muted..possible due to use of digital and solid state technologies.

A 'sterile' sound (as Gary mentioned) is something mentioned widely about digital amps; that it lacks some 'magic' that solid state (and of course, tubes) still has.  JVC's integration of the two technologies seems a cost effective approach to achieving most of the good things about digital and the 'life' than good SS seems to have.

Klaus at Odyssey has mentioned this in his posts regarding development of digital amplification...and I sure listen when he speaks as he has earned his 'value' stripes over time there. He is introducing digital amplification soon, but recognizes some limitations, or at least sound differences, with all-solid state designs.

Let me quote something Klaus wrote on April 13 in a post marked 'Digital Amps':

This is becoming the new tube vs. solid state discussion, which is ultimately pointless.

A few of my thoughts:

1. Synergy, synergy, synergy. A $ 300. receiver can sound better than a $ 3,000 amp in the right circumstance. One should know about that by now.

2. As for Anton, I know him and his background, and active musicianship in classic music. ACTIVE, and as far as he's concerned, I trust him blindly, and if the 201's or other switching digital amps weren't as satisfying to him as our Stratos, then I believe that's what he heard and liked. And of course I like his judgement, hehehe.

3. Accidentally, I agree with Anton. This to me the biggest challenge by coming out with our digital amps in that I still prefer the Stratos and some tube amps over the digital amps.

4. Looking at our digital amp, and soon putting it into perspective with much more expensive digital designs, a lot of people will be stunned, hehehe.

5. As for the lovers of digital amps, and the reason why I get into this arena, yes, you're correct. Tons of information, and super clean power. And we can do that superbly soon for less $$$.

6. There's also more to music than these traits that are embedded in the realism of musical texture, emotions etc., and that's where I hands down prefer good analog amps. But hey, if you like the cleanliness and efficiency and the detail that digital amps deliver then you're a top candidate for our new units.

7. Do they sound different ? Absolutely, because that's what the new digital amps do. They have traits that have never been heard before, but they also have shortcomings. Bottom line, are you a truck or sedan person, do you like Coke or Pepsi ??? Get it ???

8. To call the Stratos cheap is an outright insult no matter how you slice it. News flash here: a Stratos is more expensive to manufacture than a 201 !!!! Also, the Stratos is really a $ 3,500 Symphonic Line amp, that just happened to be offered in all its glory for a bit over 1 K. However, that's not a news flash. It has incredible pedigree and guess at this point it's well established. Do I say that it should be your choice ? Of course not because it gets back to synergistic system matches, personal listening preferences, and also ultimately teh audiophile ego.
Instead of calling the Stratos cheap, how about congratulating the Stratos owners of having good sense of not paying overpriced hyped equipment ???


Lastly, regarding any equipment, be it the Stratos, the 201's, other digital amps, $ 300. receivers, or $ 60,000 monos with $ 20,000 worth of cables: if you're happy with your choice then I'll be happy for you and that's how this hobby should be.
As for you guys: as far as digital amps go, teh 201's are a fine choic in my opinion and heads and shoulder above some other units I've heard.

Late,

Klaus

No doubt, both Panny's and JVC (and all others) could benefit from a low inductance power cord...something more difficult to integrate into the JVC.

Does your Panny have a normal IEC outlet, or one of theose two prong mini-outlets that you use an adapator with to use a power cord?  If that 's the case, just hook up the Panny with the origial 18/2 wire and A/B against the JVC to see for yourself....and let us know