JVC RX-F10 (Tripath-based)

zzoli · « **Reply #140 on:** 22 Jul 2004, 08:22 pm »

seen it for sale for 2670.00 which is not bad if

Quote from: Ears

And were might I find some of these opinions on the 9000.
I have it sounds fantastic.

Or should I take the lack of reveiws, personal or professional as an indicator that the 9000 is lacking for the dollar?

http://www.agoraquest.com/viewtopic.php?topic=14674&forum=51

cheers,
zoli

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #141 on:** 22 Jul 2004, 10:01 pm »

My little JVC RX-ES1SL has now been cooking for a month solid and keeps getting better...I am so surprised (as I told Dmason in a PM last night).

This baby keeps opening wider and getting sweeter. Just little bits now...not great gobs. But those little bits are so important to most of us obsessed audiofools...thats' pretty much what we typically pay stupid money for.

I was listening (first time, so I have no comparison to 'before' state) a Jerry Garcia/Dave Grisman CD titled 'Shady Grove'. I am no fan of The Grateful Dead or Jerrys (I got stoned to Pink Floyd mostly in my youth), but damn if that ragged hippie didn't sound great! Guitar, voice, recording space ambience and all the other crap that gets your juices flowing.

Ditto for the 'Two Violin Concerto' by Itzhak Perlman (Prokofiev). This one I HAVE heard previously and it in no way compares to previous listening experiences.

I can't put my finger on exactly why the sound is so enjoyable, but it is...bone stock out of the box and broken in for 1 month or so now. I am in awe and disbelief how good this little guy is for $179.00. Not that the competiton previous to it has been world class or anything, but they were (mostly) carefully assembled audiophile-approved gear for lots more.

And, I must put my plug in again, I LOVE remote volume control. Yippee!

gary · « **Reply #142 on:** 23 Jul 2004, 02:05 am »

I agree completely, I'm liking the RX-F10S more every day. Mods so far are pandafeet underneath and some weight on top, and replacing the cheapo stock power cord with a decent 16ga. one. Both seem to help. Up next is bypassing the flimsy clips and soldering my speaker cables directly to the circuit board. Hopefully I'll get to that this weekend.

Gary

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #143 on:** 23 Jul 2004, 02:11 am »

I'm gonna have to get me a "love boat" too!

Dmason · « **Reply #144 on:** 23 Jul 2004, 04:22 am »

Well tonight I soldered my speaker cables directly to the cheezy contacts, pulling out those "things" with springs like teeth from a barge's mouth. This will help, as a hindering and shameful "component" is eliminated.

The Crilon black has done its usual fine job of curing almost perfectly and this will help it look better, more authentic, -more like an actual barge. I christen her "Jota."

The JotaVC opens up daily, in increments, more air around the instruments, the burnished overtones of well recorded brass, and the sizzle of the leading edges of their flares clearly evident, this shit is the real deal, let there be no doubt, no wishfulness here, only more Cabernet

. Nylon string sounds better than I have heard it...The upgrade PC is a true asset, and essential to the proceedings as per usual.

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #145 on:** 23 Jul 2004, 04:35 am »

Yeah gents, JVC really did this one right

Gary, you got more breakin' in to do....you got yours, what, 2 weeks after mine? Way more treble sweetness and overall refinement to come in the weeks ahead...if your expereince is anything like mine. Clasical music is full and impactful now, where it was undynamic and lacking magic. This little guy is handling even the most demanding passages with aplomb. It's really uncanny.

Some of the rest, Jazz, Reggae, Rock, Blues, Vocal, whatever, was handled reasonably well previously....but Orchestral/Classical was never conveyed convincingly on my previous system components. It is completely senseless to me that the JVC can do this as well as it can. So friggin' puny, light and cheap it is.

I have some LAT International 'pud' feet underneath and I put some weight on top. Both semed to help a bit. The ERS sheets helped a smidge, too, as did the Mapleshade Silver Bearing Grease. I heard no definitive benefit to the Highwire PowerWrap, but who knows

I don't solder, dammit, to try laying in a new PC directly to it or SC directly in, but I'd wager some positive improvements from both.

Rob, the JVC may not be your last ticket on the hi-fi highway, but I think you will be pleased for your hard earned $180 (RX-ES1SL) or $280 (F10).

ooheadsoo · « **Reply #146 on:** 23 Jul 2004, 04:39 am »

Man, you guys are making it so hard to decide between one of these guys and my tube pre+a teac tripath poweramp! Arrgh!

vpolineni · « **Reply #147 on:** 23 Jul 2004, 05:19 am »

sorry to do this guys but after reading all of this, you have me intrigued about this unit. i'd really appreciate it if someone could answer some questions. first, does the unit use a tripath chip? i thought i read in a different thread (tcg's review?) that it uses something else. Second, does this unit have some sort of bi-amping feature like the panny has with "party mode"? I'd like to use 2 sets of binding posts for bi-wiring.. is that possible? Are you guys using the analog inputs primairly? I'm assuming the inputs are rca's, no xlr's. I had my soundcard modded by steve nugent so I use the analog outs on it and would want to use that. Thanks in advance for the input.

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #148 on:** 23 Jul 2004, 05:42 am »

Quote from: vpolineni

sorry to do this guys but after reading all of this, you have me intrigued about this unit. i'd really appreciate it if someone could answer some questions. first, does the unit use a tripath chip? i thought i read in a different thread (tcg's review?) that it uses something else. Second, does this unit have some sort of bi-amping feature like the panny has with "party mode"? I'd like to use 2 sets of binding posts for bi-wiring.. is that possible? Are you guys using the analog inputs primairly? I'm ...

vp:

In order of your questions:

1. We think the F10 and RX-ES1Sl are unique technology from JVC. It is, as it says, a hybrid...giving you the stellar control over lower registers and tube like mids of digital, and cleaner, more airy highs of well done solid state.

2. It's a 5.1 receiver, so it outputs to 5 channels and mono sub. The surround channels have selectable delay. I do not know if ther eis asetting in which the delay is zero...but I think there might be (if you choose either 'Small' or 'Large;' room setting...it's in the owners manual) room settingI don't know what the Panny does in Party mode, but this is what the JVC does. I use only in 2 channel mode, so I skippe dove rthat part in the manual.

3. I use analog ins - it was superior to the digi in. But not by HUGE margins, interestingly.

It's a really long Topic, I know, but worth reading as you will gain great insight into the JVC and know it is right, or not, for you.

Personally, I cannot believe the level of satisfaction I have in ownerhip of this baby. DMason and Gary/PandaFeet are equally enthralled. No matter what, it ain't gonna' be the worst $180-280 you've spent on audio - I can pretty much promise you that.

vpolineni · « **Reply #149 on:** 23 Jul 2004, 12:20 pm »

thanks chairguy for your response. are your vandies bi-wire speakers? the only problem i see what this receiver is figuring out how i would bi-wire. (i use 2 runs of speaker cable to bi-wire)

gary · « **Reply #150 on:** 23 Jul 2004, 01:39 pm »

Quote from: vpolineni

sorry to do this guys but after reading all of this, you have me intrigued about this unit. i'd really appreciate it if someone could answer some questions. first, does the unit use a tripath chip? i thought i read in a different thread (tcg's review?) that it uses something else. Second, does this unit have some sort of bi-amping feature like the panny has with "party mode"? I'd like to use 2 sets of binding posts for bi-wiring.. is that possible? Are you guys using the analog inputs primairly? I'm ...

I don't know if it has a party mode exactly, I don't think it does. If you can split the analog input you could use front & rear channels in "DVD/Multi" input to do what you want to do, but don't quote me on that. Using DVD/Multi seems to be the only way to bypass the internal DSP, which includes an A->D->A conversion that leaves something to be desired. I haven't found this documented anywhere, but I do know that there is a night-and-day difference when listening to my turntable on DVD/Multi vs. DVD, and the same goes for my P1-A/P3-A. This pretty much tells me what's going on under the hood. The JVC needs a quality analog input, and the better the signal you feed it the better it's going to sound. No doubt about that.

Like most receivers it only has RCA jacks, and the speaker terminals are flimsy clips that you'd expect to see in a $150 HTIB. The power cord leaves a lot to be desired, but luckily it's pretty easy to replace the stock one.

Gary

vpolineni · « **Reply #151 on:** 23 Jul 2004, 02:11 pm »

Gary (or anyone else for that matter), If i buy this, I plan on taking it to a modder to get binding posts put on for 2 channels and an iec inlet installed for my venhaus flavor 4 pc. I have an idea... let me know if this makes sense. The speakers I'm looking to buy are the new gallo reference 3's. The second set of binding posts are for a passive sub, meaning it can't be fed a full range signal. Could I split the subwoofer out signal and feed that to an amp which would power the subwoofer part of the speaker? does the subwoofer crossover at 80 hertz? is it selectable? if so, that makes sense to me.. what do you think?

vpolineni · « **Reply #152 on:** 23 Jul 2004, 02:17 pm »

just to let everyone know.. i found some info on the es1sl.. sorry if this info has already been posted:
http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/default.aspx?edc=645435

brj · « **Reply #153 on:** 23 Jul 2004, 02:56 pm »

Quote from: vpolineni

The speakers I'm looking to buy are the new gallo reference 3's. The second set of binding posts are for a passive sub, meaning it can't be fed a full range signal. Could I split the subwoofer out signal and feed that to an amp which would power the subwoofer part of the speaker? does the subwoofer crossover at 80 hertz? is it selectable? if so, that makes sense to me.. what do you think?

I don't know about the JVC, but the second voice coil on the Gallo Reference III is expecting the use of a 50 Hz low pass filter. If the JVC can cross at that point, you're all set, but if not, you could simply output a full range signal and put an inline filter on the cable to that set of binding posts.

If you find out how low the JVC can cross, please post the info!

RoadTripper · « **Reply #154 on:** 23 Jul 2004, 02:57 pm »

The Chairguy has written the $179 figure so many times, that is the number I expect to see it sold at. But nowhere is it listed at that price. Where can I get it cheap?

On a related matter, what is the expected price for the Panny XR70, does anybody know?

Thanks

vpolineni · « **Reply #155 on:** 23 Jul 2004, 03:02 pm »

seminarian, here you go:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=39786&item=3096389114&rd=1&ssPageName=WD1V

brj, does the voice coil have to be set at 50 hertz? gallo's own amp has the ability to change the setting.. i believe up to 80 hertz. I think I read somewhere that the JVC is adjustable.. hopefully someone who owns the unit will answer.

brj · « **Reply #156 on:** 23 Jul 2004, 03:23 pm »

Quote from: vpolineni

brj, does the voice coil have to be set at 50 hertz?

That was the number my local dealer mentioned (as well as someone else in another thread), but I don't see why it couldn't be played with a bit. I will admit that my local dealer is new to the Ref III's and does not have a B.A.M (they aren't available yet), so perhaps the information was incomplete.

Quote from: vpolineni

gallo's own amp has the ability to change the setting.. i believe up to 80 hertz. I think I read somewhere that the JVC is adjustable.. hopefully someone who owns the unit will answer.

The Gallo MPS powered subwoofer can adjust the crossover between 40Hz and 160Hz, but I haven't seen specs for the Gallo B.A.M. yet.

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #157 on:** 23 Jul 2004, 03:58 pm »

Quote from: vpolineni

thanks chairguy for your response. are your vandies bi-wire speakers? the only problem i see what this receiver is figuring out how i would bi-wire. (i use 2 runs of speaker cable to bi-wire)

vp;

I, and Dmason, have the Vandy 1c's. They are not biampable as they only have a pair of banana inputs only for each speaker. The more expensive modes in Vandy's line give you that option.

There are outputs selectable at 80, 10, 120, 150 and 200 Hz for surround speakers, but I see no such selection available for sub outputs. I guess JVC assumes everybody has an active sub with selectable crossover in it or passive with fixed. If you need an effective crossover, try an Fmod:

http://www.hlabs.com/technical/crossovers/

I think that is what 6moons used in evaluation of the Gallo's...they are about $25 each from Harrison Labs direct, or a few other places (including Parts Express). The auto guys seem to be lot hipper to the FMods that home based guys, but they are simple and straightforward in concept.

Your passive sub has no internal crossover? I use a passive sub in conjunction with the JVC(sometimes) by connecting the mono subwoofer out rca to an amp (via single IC) and on into the sub (which has a 80Hz crossover built-in). I use a AudioSource AMp3 now, but the JVC is so good, I might relegate a better amp to sub duties shortly. I hear how slow and bloated the AudioSource is now, whereas I had not previously.

The ' Party Mode' is just a marketing term from Panny, I think. I think it would mean all speakers are driven without delay

If that is what Party Mode is, then the JVC has it...just not labeled that way. If you register your set-up under 'Large Room' mode on the JVC, it will not delay the signal to the center or surround outpouts.

'Small Room' creates a delay of 1 microsecond to the Center; 3 microseconds to the surrounds and 'Medium Room' 1 msec to center; 2 msec to surrounds in the DVD Multi settings.

I only use it in 2 channel config under 'DVD' setting, so I am strictly working from owners manual text, not experience, on this.

The CDW info was the most comrehensive I've seen on the JVC to date, seems someone there might have actually used or at least opened one from the box. Every other website, sadly, used JVC's pathetically scant info from their website.

vpolineni · « **Reply #158 on:** 23 Jul 2004, 04:37 pm »

tcg,
here's a post from wayne explaining the party mode feature:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=10361.msg87922#87922

It looks like the JVC doesn't have a feature like this... although it appears that it has a more tube-like midrange whereas the panny is very detailed and accurate.

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #159 on:** 23 Jul 2004, 07:03 pm »

vp,

That was helpful, but I think the JVC does do this..it's just not labelled as Party Mode.

If you choose 'large' setting for all speakers, the signal sent to all speakers is the same. Only if you choose 'small' or 'medium', does the JVC ask you to select selectable crossover points(in the JVC's case, 80-200Hz)

If you choose 'large', the crossover does not kick in, nor any delay, thus, up to 5 non-time delayed, full range signals are pumped out.

P. 18 of the RX-ES1sl manual if anyone wants to check out my deduction or research.

Incidentally, using more time consuming manual mode rather than Large,Medium or Small, you can create delays 0-5 seconds to the center channel and 0-15 seconds to the surrounds. FYI - for you very tweeky, multi-channel video guys.

Quote

Wayne's explanation:

The Panasonic SA-XR45 can be used in "Party" mode where the same signal is sent to front and rear surround channels. If you set them both to large, there will be no crossover engaged. If either is set to small, then the 100-200 Hz crossover comes into play. If you turn the sub to on, then the 100 hz crossover will filter out the highs from the sub outlput. It will still allow all the other channels to play full range. When in "Party" mode, the rear channels are reversed, L becomes R etc. Take this into account when wiring up your speakers.