BFA banana plugs from Nakamichi......

Barry_NJ · « **Reply #20 on:** 2 Oct 2012, 09:37 pm »

I picked up these from Parts Express and I'm happy with them...

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=091-354

I'd bet they're the same as the Madisound plugs shown above.

Wayner · « **Reply #21 on:** 2 Oct 2012, 09:39 pm »

I'm back from the garage. Sadly, I must report that there is zero copper in these connectors, not even the BFA banana element itself. They are in fact, not gold plated either, but rather acid etched to appear as gold. I now suspect that every inexpensive connector made is neither of copper, nor gold plated.

Very disappointing. However, they are still a good value, it's just that they have lied about the products construction, and unless you took a hack-saw to them, you would never know.

I will post pictures later when I have more time.

Can anyone be trusted anymore???

Wayner

lacro · « **Reply #22 on:** 2 Oct 2012, 09:44 pm »

I looked at Nakamichi's web site: www.nakamichi.com I can't find these banana plugs shown? However, if you go to this site: http://www.nakamichiplug.com/product-0534E.html you will see the banana plugs. To me this reveals that this is two totally unrelated companies.

Also, check out the China industry resource site: http://www.alibaba.com/trade/search?SearchText=nakamichi+plugs&IndexArea=product_en&fsb=y A little searching under different wording and you will find several companies using the name "Nakamichi" (aka "Kleenex") and it's logo offering to supply 100,000 banana plugs per month.

It appears they are all probably counterfeit and have no connection to the electronic manufacturer Nakmachi! As far as what they are made of would depend on which company actually made them.

The ones from Madisound (not Nakamichi): http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/bananas-spades/ are listed as gold plated brass.

I guess for the price, if they all work ok, what does it matter?

Larry

Wayner · « **Reply #23 on:** 2 Oct 2012, 10:22 pm »

Larry,

I guess if the company said they were brass, electro-polished, I would not have any problem with that. But there is obviously down right fibbing going on. I think I may contact Paypal, the BBB and anyone else who gives a shit about companies that make claims that are not true. This is false advertising.

I'll bet that every banana jack in the world has zero copper in it, nor is it "gold plated". Think about the gold plating for a minute. It would have to be about 2 molecules thick, and even that would cost a fortune. Certainly not any gold in a $.75 cent connector.

They used brass cause it's cheap, is a fairly good conductor and they can electro-polish it to look like "gold". There is lots of puppet shows going on in the audio industry.

W

Quiet Earth · « **Reply #24 on:** 2 Oct 2012, 10:49 pm »

I think we all know just how much gold, copper, silver or whatever goes into a connector that only sets us back a dollar. Either not much, or not very pure. I'm not really all that surprised.

Forgive my newbie question Wayner, but can you tell us how you were able to determine the metal content and grade its quality by cutting it with a hack saw? Like I said earlier, I haven't got a clue when it comes to that sort of thing.

I will wait for the pictures and you can explain it then.
Thanks!

etcarroll · « **Reply #25 on:** 2 Oct 2012, 10:55 pm »

Larry -

There are past posts stating Nak never made banana plugs, that's old news.

I have them, liked them, but Wayner is killing me by dissecting them. I may have to switch.

chrisby · « **Reply #26 on:** 2 Oct 2012, 11:00 pm »

and don't forget these guys:

I think it's safe to say that when Wireworld says silver / gold plated copper, they're not lying

in other words, probably more science with these guys than puppet show

Wayner · « **Reply #27 on:** 2 Oct 2012, 11:05 pm »

Quote from: Quiet Earth on 2 Oct 2012, 10:49 pm

I think we all know just how much gold, copper, silver or whatever goes into a connector that only sets us back a dollar. Either not much, or not very pure. I'm not really all that surprised.

Forgive my newbie question Wayner, but can you tell us how you were able to determine the metal content and grade its quality by cutting it with a hack saw? Like I said earlier, I haven't got a clue when it comes to that sort of thing.

I will wait for the pictures and you can explain it then.
Thanks!

I took a hack saw to the banana body. It should have had a copper color where I sawed it. It was the same color on the inside as it was on the outside. Just from visual inspection, I know that the connector is made from a single alloy, no plating, nothing but the base metal.

It is simply a yellow brass derivative.

Wayner

Wayner · « **Reply #28 on:** 2 Oct 2012, 11:06 pm »

Quote from: chrisby on 2 Oct 2012, 11:00 pm

and don't forget these guys:

I think it's safe to say that when Wireworld says silver / gold plated copper, they're not lying

in other words, probably more science with these guys than puppet show

Unfortunately, these fall out of the "cheap and cheerful" category.

Quiet Earth · « **Reply #29 on:** 3 Oct 2012, 12:00 am »

Quote from: Wayner on 2 Oct 2012, 11:05 pm

I took a hack saw to the banana body. It should have had a copper color where I sawed it. It was the same color on the inside as it was on the outside. Just from visual inspection, I know that the connector is made from a single alloy, no plating, nothing but the base metal.

It is simply a yellow brass derivative.

Wayner

Oh......... Ok, I see. I think you guys must have had high hopes by the creative advertising on the package. You thought you were buying pure copper, as in solid copper connectors. You should have guessed by the picture and by the price that you were not. I understand your disappointment now.

I don't remember why, but I was already under the assumption that these were supposed to be "pure" copper content brass connectors - not pure copper connectors that were gold plated. I figured if there was a little better quality copper in the brass, or if someone even considered the copper content for the brass connector then they would be worth having at that price.

When you pulled them out of the package, didn't you think to yourself, "Hey, these are nice brass connectors. I hope there is some decent copper in there." Try them anyway and see if you like them.

There is a lesson to be relearned in all of this. You usually get what you pay for.

Letitroll98 · « **Reply #30 on:** 3 Oct 2012, 01:23 am »

Quote from: Quiet Earth on 3 Oct 2012, 12:00 am

There is a lesson to be relearned in all of this. You usually get what you pay for.

So that's why that darn mule won't gee or haw.

Wayner · « **Reply #31 on:** 4 Oct 2012, 12:01 pm »

Quote from: Quiet Earth on 3 Oct 2012, 12:00 am

Oh......... Ok, I see. I think you guys must have had high hopes by the creative advertising on the package. You thought you were buying pure copper, as in solid copper connectors. You should have guessed by the picture and by the price that you were not. I understand your disappointment now.

I don't remember why, but I was already under the assumption that these were supposed to be "pure" copper content brass connectors - not pure copper connectors that were gold plated. I figured if there was a little better quality copper in the brass, or if someone even considered the copper content for the brass connector then they would be worth having at that price.

When you pulled them out of the package, didn't you think to yourself, "Hey, these are nice brass connectors. I hope there is some decent copper in there." Try them anyway and see if you like them.

There is a lesson to be relearned in all of this. You usually get what you pay for.

Considering that most brass alloys have anywhere from 60% to 85% copper in the first place, really makes making the product as it was described, not that much more expensive then it is now. So now charge a $1.35 instead of $1.13. The machining process is the same, and the electro-polishing vs plating are a wash.

Or, the company could have come clean and just said it was made of brass, and I would have cared less. The whole point of my disappointment was that it wasn't what they said it was.

Now, beyond that, I still do like the connectors and last night, had a little more time to listen to some music using the new connectors. Spinning was Genesis, Wind and Wurthering, and even the wife made comments of a deeper soundstage, with more air, more detailed.

I attribute this all to a better contact from the speaker wire to the speaker terminal. The connectors (IMHO) do not have "sound", they merely pass a signal. If the mechanical connection is poor, the signal passing is poor, especially when the device you are passing the signal to is vibrating (because it's a speaker).

Wayner

Wayner · « **Reply #32 on:** 4 Oct 2012, 04:22 pm »

BTW, the plugs from www.Nakamichiplug.com in China (Model 534E) are vastly superior to the ones I got off eBay. The wall thickness of the barrel is thicker and longer, the setscrews are slotted (which in this case, seems to be better then the philips heads from the ones on ebay).

The slow boat from China will be worth the wait. Free shipping, too.

Wayner

lacro · « **Reply #33 on:** 4 Oct 2012, 09:34 pm »

Quote from: Wayner on 4 Oct 2012, 04:22 pm

BTW, the plugs from www.Nakamichiplug.com in China (Model 534E) are vastly superior to the ones I got off eBay. The wall thickness of the barrel is thicker and longer, the setscrews are slotted (which in this case, seems to be better then the philips heads from the ones on ebay).

The slow boat from China will be worth the wait. Free shipping, too.

Wayner

Ok ... The bottom line: These connectors (www.Nakamichiplug.com) have no actual connection to the Nakamichi Co. Are made of unknown materials, probably brass plated with "gold" or something that looks like it.

They are pretty well made, performance is acceptable, and are priced cheaply. They will be shipped via a slow boat from China, on their nickel

When they finally arrive, I will be pleased by their quality and performance... "Cheap & Cheerful"

Wayner, From your experience, is that an accurate summation?

I originally became concerned when it was suggested they contained ferrous metals, in the other thread.

I am about ready to place my order, any more comments pro or con??

BTW/ what cable did you pair with these "Cheap & Cheerful" plugs?

Larry

Quiet Earth · « **Reply #34 on:** 4 Oct 2012, 10:09 pm »

Hey lacro,

I will let Wayner answer for himself of course, but if you are looking for a consensus I will confirm that my plugs from Nakamichi.com :

Seem very well made
Are made of brass, or look just like brass
Are easy to use, and stay put where you plug them in
Do not stick to a magnet
Take at least 3 weeks to arrive
Work just fine and last a long time
Are cheap and cheerful
Are nice to have around the house for projects and ideas
Are not as good as the best plug ever made, nor a giant killer if the ultimate connector is what you seek

Hope that is OK to say. Good luck with your decision.

Addendum : I used two strands of solid core wire per plug with mine,,,, I think either 20 or 18 guage because that's what I had around the house.

Wayner · « **Reply #35 on:** 4 Oct 2012, 10:52 pm »

Well, I just listened to 3 hours of vinyl. There is no other explanation for higher order audio then the quality of the contact made by these plugs. Probably the biggest tweak I have experienced in some time. The only requirement of the wire is that I think it should be 14 gauge to fit the plug with a double wrap as I have shown before. Several LPs tonight easily demonstrated that there is an immediate and positive benefit from the contact pressure from these connectors.

The first LP I listened to today was by Genesis, The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway. I heard a bass component to one selection that actually made the room vibrate from my very small Focal 706v speakers. That was very impressive and never heard before, tho I am very familiar with the LP. The second LP, Dead Can Dance-SpiritChaser (MOFI Silver Label) had no real audible change, because it's already a spectacular recording. The third LP-Fleetfoxes, Helplessness blues, probably sounded better then it did in their studio (at least in my mind).

How's that?

Wayner

Quiet Earth · « **Reply #36 on:** 4 Oct 2012, 10:56 pm »

Glad you like them Wayner. I like mine too.

Which connectors were you using before trying these? Just curious what you are comparing them to.

usp1 · « **Reply #37 on:** 5 Oct 2012, 12:28 am »

Wayner,

Would it not sound even better if you just used bare wire to connect to the speaker binding posts?

JohnR · « **Reply #38 on:** 5 Oct 2012, 01:06 am »

Quote from: Wayner on 4 Oct 2012, 04:22 pm

BTW, the plugs from www.Nakamichiplug.com in China (Model 534E) are vastly superior to the ones I got off eBay. The wall thickness of the barrel is thicker and longer, the setscrews are slotted (which in this case, seems to be better then the philips heads from the ones on ebay).

That's interesting to know. I bought mine direct.

There's nothing really wrong with them, considering the price, they work fine. I'd like to find something similar that is designed to be soldered.

srb · « **Reply #39 on:** 5 Oct 2012, 01:50 am »

Quote from: JohnR on 5 Oct 2012, 01:06 am

I'd like to find something similar that is designed to be soldered.

I still prefer the low-mass (.56 gram) Swiss-made Multi-Contact LS4 (~ $4.50/pair) which are designed to be soldered. The extra mass of fancier plugs don't add anything to sound quality, and many believe the lower the mass the better. http://www.takefiveaudio.com/mall/shopexd.asp?id=834

There is a source on eBay that sells similar-looking ones for $13.58/set of 12, but I can't vouch for their quality or origin of manufacture. http://www.ebay.com/itm/12-BFA-4mm-BANANA-PLUGS-Z-type-Speaker-Cable-Connectors-/230860383185?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Audio_Cable_Terminations&hash=item35c059e3d1

I like the Multi-Contact LS4 just as much as my more expensive German-made ViaBlue TS2 (~ $6.00/pair), which are 81% copper/19% brass and use a gold-plated 100% copper crimp sleeve that is secured to the plug by two 1.5mm hex screws.

Steve