The Beatles On Vinyl Box Set

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dminches

Re: The Beatles On Vinyl Box Set
« Reply #20 on: 21 Sep 2012, 02:57 am »
I have found the stereo 24/44.1 files to be harsh sounding and a bit fatiguing.  I would be surprised if the vinyl didn't sound better.  The question is does it sound better than the MFSL box.

rbbert

Re: The Beatles On Vinyl Box Set
« Reply #21 on: 21 Sep 2012, 03:43 am »
It's more than a little ridiculous that these are being released on vinyl and not digital (and the music industry wonders why it is hurting financially   :scratch:).

I'm pretty sure I remember that the mastering chain for the CD's went something like:  24/192 > D to A > mastering on analog equipment (EQ, etc) > A to D (24/44.1) > CD (16/44.1).  So I wonder what the chain for these LP's is?

abernardi

Re: The Beatles On Vinyl Box Set
« Reply #22 on: 21 Sep 2012, 05:48 am »
It's more than a little ridiculous that these are being released on vinyl and not digital (and the music industry wonders why it is hurting financially   :scratch:).

I'm pretty sure I remember that the mastering chain for the CD's went something like:  24/192 > D to A > mastering on analog equipment (EQ, etc) > A to D (24/44.1) > CD (16/44.1).  So I wonder what the chain for these LP's is?

I think you're thinking about the original releases.  In 2009 they remastered everything and they were released as 24/96 files, and they do sound a little harsh to my ear too.  Actually, McCartney released a few of his albums at 24/96, compressed and uncompressed and they too were unremarkable to my ear.  But I think that's in the original recordings.  I don't think those guys were all that concerned with wowing us with sonics, they were more interested in the whole package.  So some songs were down right dirty and rough, especially the earlier stuff with radio in mind, while others were pristine or lush or whatever.  What I'm trying to say, and not too well, is that I think the sonics were just one tool they used, so sometimes it's stunning and other times it's just meh.

Toni Rambold

Re: The Beatles On Vinyl Box Set
« Reply #23 on: 21 Sep 2012, 09:03 am »
Anybody out there read this 28 years ago:

Quote from: TAS 33, April 1984, page 6

28 years to stroll the English countryside (or the boulevards of Paris ...  :lol:) to find near mint originals.

Guy 13

Re: The Beatles On Vinyl Box Set
« Reply #24 on: 21 Sep 2012, 10:47 am »

Hi all Audio Circle members.

I love the Beatles.

It reminds me of the good old days when I was 16 years old.

Unfortunately, even if I like most of their songs and especialy
the sound of their guitars,
I find that the overall sound is a little thin, not much bass.

If one of you can suggest something available at a resonnable price,
please let me know.

My next listening sestion will be for the Ventures. I have 20+ albums of them.

Guy 13

firedog

Re: The Beatles On Vinyl Box Set
« Reply #25 on: 21 Sep 2012, 11:39 am »
Without going too far out on a limb, I am going to say these are vinyl versions of the recently remastered CD set. I sincerely doubt that these will be analog, but the observation that "my copies are worn out" or "I'm missing this one or that one" are valid for me. Knowing me, I'll probably buy the box but will troll the stevehoffman.tv website for the best price. Surprisingly, one vendor or another will frequently have a much better price, sometimes it's even worthwhile ordering overseas.

Paul

No, the vinyl remasters are made from the 24/192 digital transcription of the original analogue remasters. Not from the CD remasters themselves, although the CD remasters were also downsampled to 24/44.1 from the 192K transcription before remastering. In other words, the vinyl remaster is a remaster for vinyl.

http://www.analogplanet.com/content/beatles-vinyl-remastered-finally-coming-shipping-mid-november

Wayner

Re: The Beatles On Vinyl Box Set
« Reply #26 on: 21 Sep 2012, 11:54 am »
I think you're thinking about the original releases.  In 2009 they remastered everything and they were released as 24/96 files, and they do sound a little harsh to my ear too.  Actually, McCartney released a few of his albums at 24/96, compressed and uncompressed and they too were unremarkable to my ear.  But I think that's in the original recordings.  I don't think those guys were all that concerned with wowing us with sonics, they were more interested in the whole package.  So some songs were down right dirty and rough, especially the earlier stuff with radio in mind, while others were pristine or lush or whatever.  What I'm trying to say, and not too well, is that I think the sonics were just one tool they used, so sometimes it's stunning and other times it's just meh.

You have to remember that these recordings were made a long, long time ago, when even the recording equipment by today's standards was very primitive. Early stuff from many bands where done on 4 tracks or less. Microphones were no where close to the fidelity, distortion (or noise) level as with today's equipment. That is probably one of the problems remastering this stuff. The engineer has to ask himself if the distortion is on the tape, or from another source in the remastering studio. They did make a comment that noise reduction filters were used in several spots, even if it was only 5 minutes worth of music time.

In the end, you can't make a silk purse from a sow's ear......

Wayner

firedog

Re: The Beatles On Vinyl Box Set
« Reply #27 on: 21 Sep 2012, 01:07 pm »
You have to remember that these recordings were made a long, long time ago, when even the recording equipment by today's standards was very primitive. Early stuff from many bands where done on 4 tracks or less. Microphones were no where close to the fidelity, distortion (or noise) level as with today's equipment. That is probably one of the problems remastering this stuff. The engineer has to ask himself if the distortion is on the tape, or from another source in the remastering studio. They did make a comment that noise reduction filters were used in several spots, even if it was only 5 minutes worth of music time.

In the end, you can't make a silk purse from a sow's ear......

Wayner

The equipment was primitive by today's standards, yet a lot of it was still very good. Microphones from back then are still in use. I have lots of recordings from the 50's and 60's that are among the best sounding ones I own, in spite of the primitive equipment. How is this possible? Because  a lot of recording back then was done by producers and engineers who were true music fans and audiophiles. They cared deeply about the quality of their recordings.

So did they have simple equipment? Yes. Could they make very good sounding recordings with that equipment? Yes. Because then and now, recording isn't really about the equipment. It's about knowing how to place microphones and how to use the equipment you have to get the best sound you can. Listen, for example to some of the Blue Note recordings from 50-60 years ago. Many sound fantastic even today. Okay, so they may not have an extreme frequency range - but it doesn't matter. Often simple 2 track recordings, but they can sound more like the "real thing" than lots of more modern recordings.


And  lots of the early Beatles recordings are also actually very good recordings. I bet you will be pleasantly surprised by the SQ of the vinyl, and also by the hi-res digital versions if they are eventually released and not adulterated too much before mastering.

rbbert

Re: The Beatles On Vinyl Box Set
« Reply #28 on: 21 Sep 2012, 06:59 pm »
I think you're thinking about the original releases.  In 2009 they remastered everything and they were released as 24/96 files, and they do sound a little harsh to my ear too.  Actually, McCartney released a few of his albums at 24/96, compressed and uncompressed and they too were unremarkable to my ear.  But I think that's in the original recordings.  I don't think those guys were all that concerned with wowing us with sonics, they were more interested in the whole package.  So some songs were down right dirty and rough, especially the earlier stuff with radio in mind, while others were pristine or lush or whatever.  What I'm trying to say, and not too well, is that I think the sonics were just one tool they used, so sometimes it's stunning and other times it's just meh.

Nope, you are wrong.  The Beatles have never been released as 24/96, and the only "approved" digital masterings since 1987 were the 2009 24/44.1 versions which were different from the 24/192 partially mastered versions.  It is very unclear from any information yet made public if there are "new" 24/192 masters which are "approved" by the four principals (Paul, Ringo, Yoko and George's wife Olivia), or if these LP's really just use the 24/44.1 "approved" masters (which seems stupid, but no stupider than releasing new 24/192 masters only on LP without also a 24/192 digital release)

/mp

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 259
Re: The Beatles On Vinyl Box Set
« Reply #29 on: 21 Sep 2012, 08:10 pm »
"de-noising technology was applied in only a few necessary spots and on a sum total of less than five of the entire 525 minutes...."

But not necessarily one 5 minute passage. The process may have entailed hundreds or even thousands of edits each only a few seconds or even a fraction of a second in duration.


decal

Re: The Beatles On Vinyl Box Set
« Reply #30 on: 21 Sep 2012, 09:49 pm »
I got this email from Elusive Disc today.....


Dear Elusive Disc Customer,

Thank you for your preorder with us for the Beatles LPs.  EMI has informed us that these titles were mistakenly prematurely announced.

These titles are not supposed to be available for preorder until October 1st.  We have removed these items from OUR website until that date.

 

Your preorder will remain active and NO further action is needed on your part.  We wanted to proactively notify all of our customers about this situation.

 

 

Thanks,

 

James Bantz
Elusive Disc, Inc


abernardi

Re: The Beatles On Vinyl Box Set
« Reply #31 on: 22 Sep 2012, 05:35 am »
Nope, you are wrong.  The Beatles have never been released as 24/96, and the only "approved" digital masterings since 1987 were the 2009 24/44.1 versions which were different from the 24/192 partially mastered versions. 

Ah, yes, just checked and you are correct sir. 

orthobiz

Re: The Beatles On Vinyl Box Set
« Reply #32 on: 23 Sep 2012, 11:57 pm »
Anybody out there read this 28 years ago:

28 years to stroll the English countryside (or the boulevards of Paris ...  :lol:) to find near mint originals.

I never read it but it sure makes you wonder about the validity of the things you read. And I thought the Internet was bad!
As far as the Parisian boulevards, I never did make it to Les Puces de Saint-Ouen...

Paul

firedog

Re: The Beatles On Vinyl Box Set
« Reply #33 on: 24 Sep 2012, 08:00 pm »
Online discussion indicated the new vinyl may merely be a vinyl pressing of the 24.44.1 remaster for the USB and (downsampled to 16 bit ) for the stereo CD's in 2009. Speculation that it was assumed impossible by EMI  to get the 2 Beatles and 2 Beatle widows to agree on  the sound of a new remaster. But others think the new vinyl will be cut from masters based on the original 24/192 digital transcriptions of the original analogue master tapes, which were only very lightly altered (some basic editing, fixing errors); the real remastering in 2009 was done on the 24.44.1 downsample of that hi-res transcription.

I guess we will know soon.

marknoir

Re: The Beatles On Vinyl Box Set
« Reply #34 on: 25 Sep 2012, 03:24 am »
Here is the link: http://www.musicdirect.com/p-100303-the-beatles-the-beatles-stereo-box-set-limited-edition-16lp-box-set-43-book.aspx

My couple of questions is 1) who did the pressing and 2) are these titles available as individuals as well?
I certainly don't want to hear 'I wanna hold your hand" ever again, but would be interested in Abbey Road, Let it Be, Sgt. Pepper, Yellow Sub, Revolver and the White LP. The rest I'm not interested in at all, and at $400 bucks, yikes.

Wayner

I certainly don't expect nuch from these, except nice packaging. Will be for sure sourced from the 2009 digital re-masters, which I din't like. I'll stick to my Blue Boxes (UK and Japanese Odeon... But since these Blue Boxes have risen in price on Ebay to about $400 for a used set, for somebody who wants a clean copy these may be the only altrnative.

marknoir

Re: The Beatles On Vinyl Box Set
« Reply #35 on: 25 Sep 2012, 03:25 am »
I have the MoFi Collection in the black box and the British blue box of Parlophone and Apple pressings (both stereo) plus original U.S. pressings in mono (not clean copies since they had to survive college and law school). I can't imagine these being better, but only a listen will tell one for sure. I am likely to pass and hope that they do a vinyl remastering of the Mono mixes. If they use the CD mono box set it should be pretty good.

Laura

You are right

marknoir

Re: The Beatles On Vinyl Box Set
« Reply #36 on: 25 Sep 2012, 03:39 am »
Laura,

what is your general listening preference between the Blue Box and the MFSL LPs?

there is a ton if information on comparisons of these on SteveHoffman. I had two MFSL boxes, and sold them both. Even though they give you very natural sounding voices, and generally uncompressed sound, I found them to be very bright, cold, with typical MFSL "smiling face" EQ... I also found, that some of the individual MFSL Beatles pressings sounded very good, but it was a gamble looking for a good one (same opinion was expressed on BeatleDrops). So I have kept the two UK Blue Boxes, which also vary in quality, and a Japanese Odeon Blue Box, which to my ears sounds the best. It has some annoying problems, but that is a separate topic. I also kept some seriously good sounding pressings, like German Apple MMT, and German analog DMM "White Album". and early UK Red Album... Since I found the 2009 digital re-masters very fatiguing, I don't expect much from these new vinyls, except packaging. This is really a commercial call, answering the demand in vinyl renessance... To me, these digitally sourced LPs make no sense whatsoever... Why not buy the CDs or the Apple USB and be done with it? Since cutting LPs from a digital master involves one more conversion step - correct me if I'm wrong - DA to the cutting head, wouldn't this automatically degrade the sound? 

Toni Rambold

Re: The Beatles On Vinyl Box Set
« Reply #37 on: 25 Sep 2012, 09:16 am »
Quote from: orthobiz
I never read it but it sure makes you wonder about the validity of the things you read.

In general I read on atomic and molecular physics - and I read the old TAS ...  :)


Quote from: orthobiz
As far as the Parisian boulevards, I never did make it to Les Puces de Saint-Ouen...

I wasn't thinking of the flea market but the record shops in the side streets of the Boulevard Saint-Michel in the 80's.


Regards Toni

firedog

Re: The Beatles On Vinyl Box Set
« Reply #38 on: 1 Oct 2012, 08:27 am »
online links at some retailers back up:


THE BEATLES THE BEATLES STEREO BOX SET (LIMITED EDITION 16LP BOX SET + BOOK) at Music Direct

http://www.amazon.com/The-Beatles-Stereo-Vinyl-Box/dp/B0041KVW2K/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1349079766&sr=8-1&keywords=beatles+vinyl+2012

interesting bit from page:

Quote
In cutting the digital masters to vinyl, stringent safeguards and procedures were employed. After cutting to lacquer, determined to be warmer and consistent than cutting to DMM, the next step was to use the Neumann VMS80 cutting lathe at Abbey Road. Following thorough mechanical and electrical tests to ensure it was operating in peak condition, engineer Sean Magee cut the LPs in chronological release order. He used the original 24-bit remasters rather than the 16-bit versions that were required for CD production. It was also decided to use the remasters that had not undergone ‘limiting,' a procedure to increase the sound level.

So, the idea that they are using a copy of the digital master without added compression is encouraging; but it still isn't clear whether they are using the 24/192 "master transcripts" or the 24/44.1, but from before the added compression was done.

rbbert

Re: The Beatles On Vinyl Box Set
« Reply #39 on: 1 Oct 2012, 02:16 pm »
Supposedly new 24/96 masters, but probably with the same EQ and limiting as the 2009 releases.  Only time will tell.