[Diamond Dog]

Against my better judgement, I just wanted to say something here FWIW. Regardless of technical prowess, musical education levels, stage presence, or any of the other considerations which have been discussed, one thing that can be said of James Marshall Hendrix is that he is of a very select group of musicians who managed to change the genre of music they played. Irrevocably and forever and indisputably. Listen to what came before and everything that came after. It was different after Hendrix. That is a big deal. Never mind the superfluous notes-per-minute "stupid human tricks" competition or musical literacy or showmanship etc..to me these are sideshows. I think the thing that really sets him apart is that one huge achievement.

Who else can that be said of from the names that have been offered up here? From what I've read in this Bin-bound thread, I see two: a) The Beatles- there can be no successful argument made that the impact they had on their musical genre did not leave it permanently altered: and  b) Chet Atkins. And not as a "picker" but as the head of the dominant country music record label, RCA. Atkins changed the sound of this genre ( and IMHO not for the better ) forever and the repercussions of his decisions still echo today in that genre.

I will now get back in my rowboat and return to Elba and exile. Have fun and try to be nice to each other.

D.D.

[S Clark]

Well thought out post, D.D.  Absolutely, within his genre Hendrix has to be among the top.  There are lots of genres.

[kevin360]

Hey guys, this is getting personal – not a good thing.

I think the passion for Jimi (or whomever/whatever) is all well and good, but passion often murders reason in discussions of this type. Let's not get caught up in a mud slinging contest over a silly label like 'greatest'. Unfortunately, using such a label is practically trolling for an emotional argument (over a reasoned discussion). As Steve noted, this thread did not 'devolve' – it progressed according to its initial structure. I'm not sure why I jumped into it, but here I am (again).

One need only look at the ridiculous treatment words like 'star' and 'chef' have received – in an ever escalating series of superlatives. I think that if we invited either Jimi or Frank into this discussion, both would point the finger elsewhere. True artists are in awe of each other. One of the beautiful features of the guitar is the fact that it is invested with a nearly infinite range of voices and it can be played in so many ways. Let's celebrate them all.

Could I put Jimi on a pedestal above Stanley Jordan? I've seen Stanley play a piano with one hand while fingering the fretboard with his other. I'm sorry, but I have a hard time getting my brain around that bit of acrobatics. I loved S Clark's reference to Franz Lizst, who was the Hendrix of the piano (but certainly not the first show off). I didn't mean that as an assessment of these guys as nothing more than show-offs either (don't read between the lines) - they were/are brilliant musicians.

My only point is that we should refrain from using the absolute superlative of 'greatest', because there's no way to tease that one out of the plenitude. Squabbling over the question of 'greatest' dishonors the artists, and once that label is produced, there can be but one trajectory.

[jackman]

Kevin,
Great post, although I wish someone would post a single link to a Zappa guitar piece on Youtube that would indicate he was in the same universe as Hendrix.  I've tried to listen and although I love the bands he put together over the years (truly amazing musicians) Frank's playing often borders on wankage or nooding.  I strongly dislike the stuff he did with Vai.  It's technically difficult but hard for me to listen to. Maybe I'm listening to the right era.

I've seen Steve Morse play several times and he is very good. He opened for Al Dimeola, Paco Delucia and John McLaughlin when they did the Acoustic tour and Morse was technically excellent as we're l of the guitarists.   Al was my favorite at the time.  I've also seen several legendary guitarists including Christopher Parkening, Clapton, EVH and Gilmour.

I'm not saying these guys weren't great, they just were not Hendrix great.  I've seen SRV in his younger years, before he became really famous. He was special, and at the time, I was convinced I was watching the best guitarist on the planet.  I still vividly recall the first time I saw him play.

Here is a kind of funny clip that talks about how Hendrix was viewed by his contemporaries including Clapton Townshend, etc.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=related&v=eo-lBnTc3So

[jackman]

It's ironic that Hendrix was very shy and uncomfortable with the "best guitarist" title many of his contemporaries and fans tried to put on him.  You guys are right, a thread like this can only go in one direction and its one I no longer care or intend to follow.  Sorry if anyone was insulted my my comments.  It was not my intention.

Here is A clip that illustrates how Jimi felt about the label people tried to put on him.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=related&v=6gwLQAuHJv8

[ctviggen]

Having been a Vintage Guitar Dealer for well over 20 years, I've been afforded the greatest luxury of knowing many great guitarist on a first name basis.  Kevin you are so on point about there being no one greatest and it will the musician who will be the first to tell you that. 

You were even more on point about this getting personal.   I would dare to venture that Jack...doesn't even know of the few that I named. 

To say that Danny Gatton couldn't hang with Jimi:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyjtW-rvWoQ

Or Roy Buchannan:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOptDDU3rOo

Or Tommy Bolin:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRkW3qwXdYI&feature=related


Hendrix was great, just not the greatest....there is no greatest and never will be.....but Jackman knows more about this than all of us so we all need to move on....

Jim

My problem with Roy Buchanan is that his sound is way, way, way too bright for me.  I couldn't listen past the first 30 seconds of his playing on that clip.  I also don't like when Jimi gets into noise.  But I can listen to all his studio albums, whereas I've tossed the only Buchanan I have. 

I think "greatest" ever is very subjective and my greatest ever list changes all the time.  I still love SRV, Jimi, and quite a few others.  Which one is better depends on the day.

[jackman]

Okay, here are a couple clips from the same show.  Cool stuff, mistakes and all,  IMO.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=fvwrel&v=XQN9-w9L2w0

http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=relmfu&v=w9X1uXGW6ro

[JerryM]

So many "greatests".

Here's one. The greatest guitarist ever, for her age group. Ever.

The guy she's emulating was no chump, either.

It's all about the music. 

(She's Desiree Basset.)

[Rclark]

For the record I don't say best, as in most skilled, best noodler, but greatest, as in had the biggest impact and legacy. There simply is no other guitarist with the cache that Jimi has and everyone knows who he is. That's called fame.

[Andre2]

 I do not like Hendrix's style of music.  Would you call it the blues, for the most part?  Must be it, blues are boring.  Always the same boring scale and similar tunes.   

[srb]

Must be it, blues are boring.  Always the same boring scale and similar tunes.

Depends on who's playing it.  Most rock and blues musicians play the blues based on a standard I - IV - V progression of major, minor and seventh chords.
 
Jazz musicians that play blues usually use a more complex structure of altered chords and turnarounds which provides the harmonic framework for a lot of cool melodic variations and possibilties far beyond a standard boring "blues scale".
 
Steve

[Davey]

I'm not qualified to judge technical ability, but Vince plays the guitar in a more enjoyable way (listening wise) than anyone I've ever heard.  I could listen to him play the guitar all day......but not Jimi Hendrix. 

A sample:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3SavqJdVjk

Dave.

[Andre2]

Steve, I appreciate that suggestion.  Because, I gave it a try recently and got Stevie Ray Vaughan "Blues at Sunrise" about a month ago to see if I could change my mind.  Right now I am listening to "Dirty Pool"... okay, fine, the fellow is a good musician, but I still don't like the album overall.  Would you have any suggestions for me to get a more jazzist blues' album? 
Regards, Andre.

[See fellows?  Is it really so difficult being polite to one another?  Really?]

[OzarkTom]

Hendrix gets my vote, although there are many, many great guitarists that are still alive today and dead.

One of them is the short blonde guy that palys for Styx. Tommy Shaw. He can eat a guitar up very easily.

[SlushPuppy]

Six pages of this (now) quarantined thread and not a single post about Todd Rundgren. Well, here's the first (and probably the last).

Enjoy your music guys. Who cares what anybody else thinks 

[OzarkTom]

I wonder if Hendrix could play a 12 string guitar like Tommy Shaw can?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZsZhM7cm98

[doug s.]

So so songwriter? Lol  Sure. If you think songs about ham sandwiches and lawnmowers in outer space are good songwriting then I can understand the Zappa thing. 

 We might as well include Wierd Al and JP Patches 


 hendrix's music transcends all that technical bs, transcends all the debates (like this one).

if you think "songs about ham sandwiches and lawnmowers in outer space" is what frank is about, and if you can compare frank to weird al & jp patches, then i can now understand your opinion (or lack thereof) about frank - you are obviously totally clueless about frank and his music.  that's ok.  a lot of folks talk about stuff when they have no idea what they're talking about.   

frank was a consummate musician and songwriter, not just one of the greatest guitar players that ever lived.  and, by "songwriter", i mean music, not simply lyrics.  but, frank also happened to be one of the greatest guitar players that ever lived, as well.  (like others have said, i don't believe you can say there is one "the greatest" guitar player.)  you are right there is no debate here - much as i like jimi's guitar playing - and i do - i like frank's better.  you cannot debate this, as it is my opinion.   my opinion transcends whatever you think my opinion should be.    the only bs is that anyone would unequivocally state there is one "the greatest".

kinda like basketball.  (or anything else, for that matter.)  some folks say michael jordan was "the greatest".  but, if i could pick only one player for my "dream team", michael wouldn't be my first pick.  probably not even the second.

here's a small fz sampling, from the web.  not the best sound quality, it is what it is...
(for guitar only, go to 1:46):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TIVAMehnxM&feature=related

(for guitar only, go to 4:36, but there's a nice sax & piano solo before - the band here is incredible, jean luc ponty, ian uderwood, george duke, among others):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dp6LT2MdaPI&feature=related

mellow tuneful guitar, brilliant nonetheless:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9DqykUsqRY&feature=related

now something/someone completely different; also one of the greatest, imo.  and easily at least as talented as jimi, imo:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gukFvG8VbK4

different horses for different courses.

doug s.

[Rclark]

You're still basing this entire in noodling ability, and I've seen several Zappa docs, anyway they say Beefheart was much more vituousic than him. 

...in that genre about ham sandwiches and lawn mowers in outer space set to virtuosic guitar  .

I know he wrote more "normal" music too.

But you get my point. This is like talking about the greatest astronaut in the world. The greatest will always be the one who uttered "...for mankind". The best astronaut will probably end up being a robot.

Ask any kid who Jimi is, they know. Zappa?  Also, I doubt we got the full spectrum of Jimi's talent in that short career. 

[Rclark]

 For the record Doug, I like Frank too, never said I didn't. 

[doug s.]

But you get my point. This is like talking about the greatest astronaut in the world. The greatest will always be the one who uttered "...for mankind". The best astronaut will probably end up being a robot.

some people think john glenn was the "world's greatest astronaut".  what about the first astronaut that steps foot on mars?  i guess les paul is the greatest guitarist in the world, because he invented the electric guitar?   

fz's career was also cut way too short...

i don't really care about what kids think, whose exposure to different types of music is wery limited - i care about who i think is the greatest guitar player.  i have a hard time w/that question, but if i have to choose, it ain't gonna be jimi.

but you get my point.  fz was a better guitar player than jimi.  i am basing this on his ability to play the guitar, nothing more, nothing less.  you do understand, i don't believe this to be a fact, this is simply my opinion.  lemme guess - in your opinion, you think jimi is the best guitar player ever?   

doug s.