[mgalusha]

I have been helping my friend Jerry assemble his pair of GR Alphas and we completed the first one today. He purchased a set of cabinets from Danny that Mark Schifter is supplying. The pictures don't do them justice IMO, they are absolutely gorgeous.

As can been seen in the photo's here, the factory did not include braces in the lower half of the speaker. We added two additional window braces (split and assembled inside the cabinet) and some hardwood dowels. These cabinets appear mighty dead at this point.

We elected to use outboard crossovers to allow for easier bass tuning and to provide some additional spacing between the inductors. I assembled the XO's on 1/4" plywood, mounting all the coils on 7/8" diameter hardwood dowels. The bottom of the plywood is covered with a sheet of damping material similar to Dynamat but without an aluminum face. The cases are fabricated from 3/4" particle board and everything is fastened with brass screws. The XO board has 3/16" thick nylon spacers to raise it above the bottom of the case.





Sadly we were only able to complete one speaker today as one of the drivers was bad. It appears the factory was over zealous with the adhesive and the cone does not move at all. I suspect by now Jerry has already arranged for a replacement from Danny.

Even though only one speaker was complete we had to give it a listen if for no other reason than to assure correct functionality. Keeping fingers crossed I powered up the amp and slowly raised the volume. Happily I was greeted by music and all drivers seemed to working correctly.

Obviously one can't form much of an opinion given only one speaker that is brand new, but of course it's nearly impossible not to have some opinion on how it sounds. We were both very pleased with how it sounded. We played a variety of music (in glorious mono ) for about an hour and overall were very pleased with the results. One thing that surprised both of us was the bass. I have gotten the impression that some folks were not getting enough punch or low bass from the Alpha. That is certainly not the case here, at least in his room. I didn't have any kind of test discs with me or measuring equipment but they seemed to play pretty low without effort. We put in the Naxos CD of Kim Hok-Man - Master of Chinese Percussion and experienced deep, clean bass. I can't wait to hear how the pair sounds, especially after some break in and bass tuning.

The rest of the system consists of an Exemplar Audio modded Denon 2900, deHavilland UltraVerve and Parasound JC-1's. IC's were Bolder Nitro and speaker cable was Alpha Core "Python". As for what speakers the Alphas are replacing (or not depending on the final results) the picture below says it all.



Hopefully Jerry will chime in with his thoughts as well.

mike g.

[bubba966]

Well Mike, I'd heard that you were going to be building a pair of these and was wondering today about asking you how they're coming.

Guess I don't need to ask you about it now...  

[azryan]

Looking forward to both of your impressions in actual stereo.
Sorry to hear about that bad woofer. That’s gotta suck to have only one brand new speaker.

As for lack of bass from Alphas you mentioned... it was a simple x-over mistake I believe that was worked out quickly and the owner’s  impression of the Alpha's lack of bass changed to (to paraphrase) 'scratch that lack of bass comment'.

WOW those bases are HUGE. Bigger than mine it looks like (which were per Danny's plans), and I'd been advocating people consider making even smaller bases as these things are not at all 'tippy' even with no base (which is I guess more like the 40's in the picture).

Maybe something to consider if the owner feels they’re too big. Does make a Large footprint.


I've got one track from that Chinese Drum CD off the Burmeister Ref. CD III and have compared it to RMX's with 1000WPC.

I've got ~100WPC from my Pannie and it's astoundingly clean and loud using only ~10 Watts max from it. Louder than I played it on the X’s too.

Something that stands out on that track for me is the impression of the height of those massive stand up drums vs. coming from what sounded like two floor loaded subwoofers (though of outstanding quality) in the X's.

The Alphas just seem like the actual ‘real’ drums and played all the transient vibrations of them too. The X’s seemed overdamped to me (but the owner disagreed -to be fair).

Great track to put on repeat and leave the house to break in all those woofers too.

Check out the diff. in excursion.

I think you’ll find the 6" Alpha cones don’t hardly visibly move at all while at the same volume I think you’ll find the 40's woofers to be chugging heavily (which is not an insult or anything) just I think shows the lack of work each Alpha woofer does while covering both the full bass and midrange vs. dual 10" highly praised subwoofers and PR covering only the bass.

Looking forward to a full shootout since few people will ever get to hear both speakers much less both in the same room and same electronics which REALLY boils down the diff. to JUST the speakers themselves.

Could you guys comment on the ‘impact’ of the Alpha’s woofer midrange vs. RM-40's planar midrange?
I found there to be a clear lack of impact in the 40's but only had limited time with them and not totally sure if  it could get any better with the assorted adjustments there are on that speaker or if it’s just a matter of the planar not pushing air play that midrange?

Another opinion would be great.

[Maggie Guy]

Congrats,
Wait til you get both working, then you can really start enjoying them.
I am curious as well to see how the Alpha's compare to the RM40's.

[Snegrah]

Lack of bass????? Who said that????? Yeah, that was me.  Last nite I was listening to....hell I forgot...but, there was this deep base coming from somewhere I never heard before on this disc.  I am finding more information revealing itself on CD's I've played a thousand times.  The bass is definetly not a problem anymore.  It took a short while to break-in where you can "feel" it and as time goes on you can "listen and feel" it.

When I snuck (past tense of sneek) the bases on while my wife was at the store....it took her two days to say, "When did those huge things go on?"  I tried to tell her they were always there but she just shot me a look.  I may try and trim them down....someday.

Will outboard Xovers better the quality of sound in any way?

I think the Alphas are a far better looking speaker than the RM40.  Obviously, it is just my OPINION.  Having heard the 40's and having had the model above it, FF1, the Alphas sound better...IN MY OPINION AND IN MY ROOM.  

AZRYAN, you asked me about tonality.  All I can contribute to that is they sound "right".  Not having heard the original artist or the instrument I do not know how to compare.  Vocals are there...no canny-ness - my pet peeve.  They are large and I can sometimes hear the lip-smaking presentation of the word.  Chorals are revealing enough that I can almost count how many people are in there (good recording dependent).  Actually, some bad recordings now have a "good tonality".  There were some CD's I would not listen to that I can tolerate now.  Piano, sounds full and percussiony (new word)!  You can feel the strike of the felt(?) on the string.

I have not yet listened to a classical cut.  Most speakers do not work with classical in my room.  I have turned off to classical because most of it sounds like it is coming from a large barrel.  The Orions did not do this.  When I feel the speakers are broken in enough, I'll give classical a try.
I will start with single string instruments like the cello, viola, violin, bass and work my way into a full blown symphony..if I like the direction it's going.

Yikity-yak-yikity- yak, anyway, I'm having fun getting acquainted with these things.
Tom

[Turk]

Mike, you did a hell of a job on the crossovers! You also wired the speaker right, no sparks, no smoke, you da man.  Danny is sending a new driver and some extra wire, no charge.  Love the service.  Mike's impressions are very close to mine.  Plenty of bass, azryan is correct that the early post on bass must have been a simple error.  Woke my wife up two stories up with one speaker easily being driven to 98+ db peaks of the percussionist's art. Also the Alpha showed a high degree of transparency.

The room is W-15'X23'X7'4" and does have a few low frequency problems unrelated to a speaker's capabilities.   This will be an interesting comparison
between the two speakers.  The RM40's like Wayne's Nito Bybee speaker cables a bunch (ask Tyson) and Danny likes the Goertz,  so when we do the comparison we will try to tune the room to accomodate the speakers and feed them the wire they like, otherwise electronics will stay the same.

[brj]

I'm looking forward to hear your impressions of both sets of speakers.  For the sake of comparison, do you have the kit and fully assembled list prices for each pair of speakers as configured (i.e. including any options)?

I know that the RM40, at least, has several options that can significantly affect the price and sound quality.

I'm one of those guys that always has to divide a product's "performance" by its price tag... I couldn't even begin to list the number of speakers that provide stunning sound, but exceed my budget!

[Danny Richie]

Great thread. I'll just throw in a little pertinent info.

Will outboard Xovers better the quality of sound in any way?

No, but it does offer a little flexibility in tweaking the bass management system without having to pull the lower woofer.

Then again you undo just as many screws on the lid of the outboard crossover box.

Woke my wife up two stories up with one speaker easily being driven to 98+ db peaks of the percussionist's art.

That is funny, but keep in mind that the resistor values that you are playing with in the bass management system are only 10 watt resistors.  

Use them to decide which value is best for your application.

Then call and order a bundle of Mills resistors to use in there. That will increase the power handling of that system.

No biggy if you blow up the one you're using. If it blows then it will simply not by-pass additional bottom end back to the amp.

The resistor does not see full power through the bottom end as most of it is passed on to the woofers, (path of least resistance) but still, the 10 watt resistor can only take so much long term power because it is passing low frequency wavelengths.

If you for instance decide that you like the 20 ohm value then I can send you a bundle of five 100 ohm Mills resistors for you to use.

A fifty watt resistor value there will last you from now on, and your ears will blow out before they do.  

Hey, I bet Gary Dodd has had his pair of Alphas cleanly hit at least 120db levels in his room once in a while, and just for fun.  

[mgalusha]

Danny,

Right now I put the 27Ω resistors in to start with. Knowing how Jerry likes to crank the system I figured the higher value would see less current as he breaks in the speakers. Once the woofers have broken in a bit we'll spend some time trying different values to see which ones sound the best in his system.

I'm really looking forward to hearing these once they get some time on them (and I get the second one assembled).


brj,

His RM-40's have the TRT caps, FST tweeters and the soundcoat. I also coated the PR's per BC.

I think the Alphas come pretty much loaded and that there are not a lot of options. I believe the cabinets were right at 2K as were the kits.

[Danny Richie]

Right now I put the 27Ω resistors in to start with. Knowing how Jerry likes to crank the system I figured the higher value would see less current as he breaks in the speakers. Once the woofers have broken in a bit we'll spend some time trying different values to see which ones sound the best in his system.

Sounds like a perfect plan.

[Marbles]

If the 40's don't measure up, it won't be because they weren't tweaked to the max!

Looks like the battle of the Value TITANS to me.

Have fun you guys.....

[mgalusha]

Rob,

Good call, I think both speakers offer a lot of value for the money. Likely the "winner" will come down to personal taste. It's nearly a sure bet some will like the Alphas more while others would prefer the RM40's. I'm just happy I get to hear both of them in the same room on the same electronics. Should prove most interesting.  

[Marbles]

Rob,

Good call, I think both speakers offer a lot of value for the money. Likely the "winner" will come down to personal taste. It's nearly a sure bet some will like the Alphas more while others would prefer the RM40's. I'm just happy I get to hear both of them in the same room on the same electronics. Should prove most interesting.  

I'm envious...hell, I'd love to here the Alphas in any room...

[Jon L]

Right now I put the 27Ω resistors in to start with. Knowing how Jerry likes to crank the system I figured the higher value would see less current as he breaks in the speakers. Once the woofers have broken in a bit we'll spend some time trying different values to see which ones sound the best in his system.

Sounds like a perfect plan.

Danny, the picture of x-over appears not that complex (is it the whole x-over?).  Is there any reason one could not use an active x-over with variable slopes, x-over points, etc?  Is there some designer "trick" such as notch filter, time alignment, etc, that has to be in the x-over?

[mlschifter]

Greetings from Hong Kong...

Simply stunning... I'm very proud and excited to be a small part of this stuff...

I'm heading back to China in a few days to clean up some stuff and get new products and production rolling for Danny and his clients... I've got nothing but good news to report... so stay tuned... ANYTHING that Danny wants --- I'm in 10,000%...

Congratulations... and all the best...

mls

[brj]

His RM-40's have the TRT caps, FST tweeters and the so ...His RM-40's have the TRT caps, FST tweeters and the soundcoat. I also coated the PR's per BC.

I think the Alphas come pretty much loaded and that there are not a lot of options. I believe the cabinets were right at 2K as were the kits.

Ok, so if these were both fully assembled speakers purchased at list prices:

    - VMPS RM40 (FST Tweeter & Soundcoat) + TRT = $4,599 + $1200 = $5799
    - GR Research Alphas ("Rosewood or Walnut, lined with Blackhole 5, and using heavy SCI binding posts") = $5,890

I didn't realize that the pricing would be that close.  Of course, this assumes that I caught all of the options for both speakers and excludes shipping costs and dealer discounts.  Any chance your RM40 has the new MLS cabinet?  

If the $2k estimate for the cabinet is right, it appears that the kit version of the Alphas comes out to about $4000.  The RM40/FST kit with cabinet is apparently $3800.  Either way, the results should be interesting, although I suspect that mgalusha is correct in that personal preferance will drive a person's selection of a "winner" between these two highly regarded speakers.

Have fun!

Edit: Added RM40 kit price and modified RM40 fully assembled price to reflect the fact that Soundcoat is included in the base price

[azryan]

brj,

Danny's Alphas have been mainly sold as/intended as a kit and what I'd call a 'kit' -meaning the intention is to solder your own x-overs, wire in the drivers AND build your own cabinets.

He sends you the plans for the cabinets (simple right angle cuts) and wiring diagram (which has a LOT of wires, but really just a matter of reading the 'connect the dots' carefully) and very simple x-over (can be wired point to point w/ no wire between each piece).

This came out to ~$2,600 for my own pair total.

I'm pretty much a novice builder and I think it was not that hard to build them (though Danny does not consider this a beginer kit).
Mainly it was a matter of spending the time to work on them.

I had all the pieces cut for both cabinets in one day though just using a hand circular saw and clamps/straight edge. IMO, you don't need a shop and decked out with costly tools to make these (though that's gotta be nice!).

An impression I think people might have.

The finish on those MLS cabinets is fantastic though so if you're looking at getting those and factoring in costs between these two speakers I think it'd be most fair to include or exclude those MLS cabinets from both.

I believe they're a higher cost premium 'option' than the U.S. made 40 cabinets and the only ones 'fully wrapped' on all sides.

People might say 'who cares about the back?' but I think it's just nicer to have it on all sides and I'm sure most (all?) Alpha owners will agree the Alphas look killer from the back too with those 4 flared ports on nice veneer.

[azryan]

Is 'Turk' Jerry who's the owner of these Alphas/40's? Just wanted that straight if I got it wrong? thanks

[mgalusha]

Is 'Turk' Jerry who's the owner of these Alphas/40's? Just wanted that straight if I got it wrong? thanks

You have it right, he just doesn't post much.

mike

[mgalusha]

I finished assmebling the second Alpha last night and have to say that they are sounding pretty nice for brand new speakers. One thing I found interesting is how sensitive they are to placement.

After listening to just one speaker I and finding it very nice tonally I was shocked when we fired up the pair and found them very forward, overly bright and in your face. I was thinking "sure hope some break in will tame this" and was quite disappointed after being favorably impressed after hearing the single speaker. It appeared one speaker was closer than the other (we had just muscled them into an approximate position) and sure enough the measuring tape showed the right channel about 5" closer than the left (we were about 11 or 12 feet back). Jerry started moving the right channel back until they measured the same from the back wall and the change was astounding. The sound went from being forward and bright to having much more depth and a very even tonal balance.

Obviously positioning is critical with any speaker but the difference of moving only one of the Alpha's was startling. The change in perspecitve was not unexpected but the change in tonality was.

Anyway, they will be playing 24/7 for the next few weeks and once the woofers have loosened up we'll do some bass tuning and the it's time for some serious listening. Really looking forward to that.

mike g.