[Rclark]

Meanwhile... I just got back from filling up the propane tank for my Weber a buddy of mine just dropped off a few days ago. Pretty nice gift! Time to go find something to grill and beer up.

[medium jim]

TJHUB:

Absolutely, subs take some trial & error to get right.  I borrowed a test tone cd to test and retest my setup.  It surprised me a bit at first that I had originally set my subs with too much gain.  As they are now, they transition into the mains very flat.  I do have a 5 to 6db roll off @ 20hz, which is acceptable as my subs are small and are rated down to 27hz.

The 2.5's stay relatively flat throughout the tonal spectrum.  All measurements taken from the listening position with a Radio Shack Digital SPL meter with the target db output being 85db.

Jim

[TJHUB]

TJHUB:

Absolutely, subs take some trial & error to get right.  I borrowed a test tone cd to test and retest my setup.  It surprised me a bit at first that I had originally set my subs with too much gain.  As they are now, they transition into the mains very flat.  I do have a 5 to 6db roll off @ 20hz, which is acceptable as my subs are small and are rated down to 27hz.

The 2.5's stay relatively flat throughout the tonal spectrum.  All measurements taken from the listening position with a Radio Shack Digital SPL meter with the target db output being 85db.

Jim

Jim:

It is my humble opinion that anyone using subs for music get a decent room measuring setup like Room EQ Wizard.  I was never successful with test tones and a Rat Shack SPL meter.  You just can't see enough resolution, it takes WAY too much time to tweak and remeasure, and most of all, you can't see what's going on around the x-over point. 

Those of you with speakers that roll off nicely near a desirable x-over point are lucky.  Trying to filter out <60 to 80 Hz from very bass capable speakers is not easy or cheap.

[medium jim]

Jim:

It is my humble opinion that anyone using subs for music get a decent room measuring setup like Room EQ Wizard.  I was never successful with test tones and a Rat Shack SPL meter.  You just can't see enough resolution, it takes WAY too much time to tweak and remeasure, and most of all, you can't see what's going on around the x-over point. 

Those of you with speakers that roll off nicely near a desirable x-over point are lucky.  Trying to filter out <60 to 80 Hz from very bass capable speakers is not easy or cheap.

I agree, it was a lot of back and forth to dial the gain in on the subs to get them right.  I'm lucky I guess or maybe it is the nature of the Magnepan's in general that allows you to high pass out the 60-80hz range....I was able via a pair of Maggie Mates that I guy in Fresno, CA makes expressly for Magnepan's.   They're cheap and work, even if Davey thinks they're a bit crude.  All that matters is the end result. 

Jim

[Rclark]

.. I was looking at the omnimic but the slightly more expensive XTZ pro II seems better for rooms. Think that's the one I want. Acoustic Frontiers, that Nyal Mellor fellow sells em and offers advice. Makes prettier graphs too.

[medium jim]

.. I was looking at the omnimic but the slightly more expensive XTZ pro II seems better for rooms. Think that's the one I want. Acoustic Frontiers, that Nyal Mellor fellow sells em and offers advice. Makes prettier graphs too.

So after you do a measurement on your setup, how would you go about getting it flat? 

Jim

[Rclark]

DIY traps and diffusers. Should be fun.

[TJHUB]

DIY traps and diffusers. Should be fun.

Those are not going to work for anything in the subwoofer region...

[Rclark]

Floor to ceiling corner traps and 4' by 2' by 4" 8lb mineral wool traps no good?


+ 3 to 4 subs?

Should be awesome.

[TJHUB]

Floor to ceiling corner traps and 4' by 2' by 4" 8lb mineral wool traps no good?

In the subwoofer region, those traps will likely have a minimal affect at best.  Of course you won't know what you need until you actually measure your response.

[medium jim]

DIY traps and diffusers. Should be fun.

Traps & Diffusers will not change bumps & dips.  TJHUB is dead on point, you will need to be able to cure the problem at the x/o's...i was lucky that the high pass filters were doing their job, otherwise I would have needed active x/o's to tame the beast.

Room treatment is important, and in some cases can cure some bumps and dips, but it takes an acoustic engineer to plot your room to do correctly.  Traps and diffusers will cure other things though like 1st wave reflections, room nodes and so on.

Jim

[Rclark]

In the subwoofer region, those traps will likely have a minimal affect at best.  Of course you won't know what you need until you actually measure your response.

Noted. See you one day in the accoustics forum.

[SteveFord]

Since we finally got a flat screen for the wife to watch the MMG/SVS sub combo is getting a lot of use.
It's surprising just how often the subwoofer comes into play with television shows and commercials and the way they mix in the bass makes it very pronounced.
With music the bass is blended in but with television they really crank it up.  Buy this stupid thing, WHAM!
I can see how adding a second sub with the MMGs would make a lot of sense to give it some balance. 
I dunno about two big SVS subs but perhaps something a bit more unobtrusive would be the ticket.
Either that or leave the sub turned off so it's not so annoying.

[Rclark]

 Yeah, bass in movies and tv is often a replacement for content 

[josh358]

@everyone else, yeah it's tough having loud neighbors. When I get a house, I'm heading to the country. The hell with it, I'll commute. One day I want a full balls to the wall room so I can listen at reference level with no shame.

I had a friend who chose his apartment with precisely that in mind. The prewar fireproof masonry buildings in New York were remarkably soundproof.

[SteveFord]

The houses built right after WWII are pretty good in that regard as well. 
Mine is 1948, I believe, and unless the doors are open the neighbors are deprived of Frank Zappa on Sunday mornings.
They may have some Mothers going on in their own houses but I kind of doubt it.

[poseidonsvoice]

In the subwoofer region, those traps will likely have a minimal affect at best.  Of course you won't know what you need until you actually measure your response.

http://www.hifizine.com/2011/09/bass-integration-guide-part-2/

Best,

Anand.

[TJHUB]

http://www.hifizine.com/2011/09/bass-integration-guide-part-2/

Best,

Anand.

Good luck...

[josh358]

Floor to ceiling corner traps and 4' by 2' by 4" 8lb mineral wool traps no good?


+ 3 to 4 subs?

Should be awesome.

I third what TJhub said, both about the need for EQ and a measurement setup. (Although if you get a DSPeaker, it will automatically take care of the measurement business -- it's gotten enthusiastic reviews, don't know anyone who's used one personally.) The Behringer EQ is popular. For measurements, you can get a calibrated Behringer mic, boom stand, and preamp for about $150. (A bit more will buy you an Earthworks, which is a real measurement mic, e.g., will produce useful results without a cal file. But, really, for what you're doing, I don't think it's necessary.)

Digital bass EQ makes a big difference and IMO is necessary in any state-of-the-art setup. Its main disadvantage vis-a-vis acoustical treatment is that it's good mostly for one listening position.

I wouldn't bother with corner traps for bass, as I think Jim said you need real bass traps for that and in the home environment, they aren't terrible practical in the bottom octaves.

[Rclark]

 I'm in the middle of this one:


http://www.harman.com/EN-US/OurCompany/Innovation/Documents/White%20Papers/multsubs.pdf


 - on my porch, laptop, slow cooking some teriyaki pork.. IPA in hand.