[mgalusha]

Or, in order to be 'perfect', should our systems be able to compensate for these colorations somehow?

That's what liquor is for.  JK of course, but I find this whole thread amusing. It's all a big fake, can't believe how much some folks get riled up over it. Pick the trade offs that make you happy and enjoy. Says he who is listening to his imperfect vinyl though an imperfect preamp, amp and speakers.

[Tyson]

"It's all a big fake" - I love it!  Can I quote you in my sig

[*Scotty*]

In my opinion, no. For the purposes of my question I would define a perfect amplifier as a straight wire with gain. No flavoring and no compensation, as both would be a deviation away from the initial condition of the incoming signal.
Scotty

[*Scotty*]

I agree with Mike, that is what I use single malt for.
Lots of flavor and a nice color to boot.
Scotty

[mgalusha]

Single Malt drinking fanboys...

[jackman]

Mike, thanks for providing the quote of the thread!   

It's all a big fake people!!!  Where's my bourbon?

[medium jim]

Scotty,we need the perfect source first, and that is far away from what we are getting.

I use to go to the CES show into the Revox room. Every few minutes they would do a demo to the audio dealers that entered the room. They had a wall placement of their rack system and Revox speakers. As their source, they had a record, CD, and the master tape of the same recording on their 3/4" Studer-Revox machine.

First, they would play the record, next the CD.The sound of the system was very mid-fi with very little imaging and depth. As soon as they hit the button on the master tape, evey mouth in the room fell open. The improvement was totally night and day. The Revox rack system came to life and wowed everyone.

Just to make sure that this was not a joke, every year I would watch at least 3-4 demos. It is real sad on how much the software is lacking compared to the master tape.

This is the same thing Doc Smalle of Bottlehead does....he plays an otherwise high-end system (his stuff) with a mid-fi CD player and then switches to his over the top Nagra Reel to Reel and jaws drop. 

Lucky me, I actually enjoy my CDP....I know I couldn't afford 6 figures for a Nagra Reel to Reel like Doc's! 

Jim

[*Scotty*]

Sources aside, does anyone have an opinion regarding the reception a PERFECT amp would get from the audiophile at large? When the amp is in the system will the audiophile understand what they are listening to is perfect, or will they reach some other conclusion, never seeing the forest for the trees so to speak?
Scotty

[JohnR]

Is a passive preamp "perfect"?

[Tyson]

Laws of physics aside, how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?  And would the average person be able to even count them?

[medium jim]

Sources aside, does anyone have an opinion regarding the reception a PERFECT amp would get from the audiophile at large? When the amp is in the system will the audiophile understand what they are listening to is perfect, or will they reach some other conclusion, never seeing the forest for the trees so to speak?
Scotty

Scotty,  everything we do within the confines of audiophilium is a bunch of small compromises and give & takes. Along the way we may be lucky enough to build in some synergy within our systems.  This and the forgiving nature of the human ear and brain makes it all worthwhile.

I ended up with a 50 year old tube preamp that sounds as good or better than anything else I've encountered.  Same for my choice of amps, reissues of amps made in the early 60's.

My CDP has gone thru a complete redo and with a tube output stage.

Are they perfect? No!  Are they capable of reproducing music that comes close to live?  Absolutely!!!

No two roads will ever be the same for two audiophiles, nor will there be two exactly the same systems.

This thread should be a lesson of tolerance and acceptance of others opinions, regardless of how different they may be to what I or you, or anyone else believes to be the truth.

Jim

[S Clark]

Laws of physics aside, how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?  And would the average person be able to even count them?

Silly boy. Every good Baptist knows angels don't dance!

[Tyson]

They are too busy smiting!  Man, there just isn't enough smiting going on after the Old Testament.

[*Scotty*]

I don't think so.
 It is easier to assume that nothing at present is perfect. We have no good way that I can think of to prove otherwise.
Scotty

[doug s.]

I have another philosophical question instead.  If all recordings are colored, should our systems perfectly reproduce these colored recordings?  Or, in order to be 'perfect', should our systems be able to compensate for these colorations somehow?

"bingo!".  imo, tyson nails it.  but, of course, this is because this has always been my philosophy regarding what is considered "accurate", when it comes to playback of recorded music.   

which is why i disagree w/scotty that the ideal is "straight wire with gain".  i would agree w/scotty *if* the recording side were perfect.  but that is not the case.  therefore, for my ears, anyway, what sounds most like the music itself - not the recording - is what's most accurate.  and, that is why there's disagreement as to what playback system may get you "closer" - folks hear differently, and recordings themselves are different...

ymmv,

doug s.

[*Scotty*]

Certainly, everything about our systems is a compromise. But that doesn't answer the question how one would know if they encountered a component that was perfect and made no compromises. For that matter how do we recognize a component that is a significant step closer to being perfect.
Scotty

[Tyson]

Scotty, I think it comes down to the fact that some components are at a similar level of performance but are different flavors, and which you like best depends on your tastes.  But I also think that a component that is just flat out better is pretty audible.  So taking that to the logical extreme - if there is a perfect amp out there, then yeah, it would be pretty obvious that it just dusts everything else.  I've never heard anything like that in real life, but I sure would love to.

[*Scotty*]

doug you have mis-understood the nature of my question. An "ideal" was never part of the question. Ideals are based on a value judgment which exists in the ear of the beholder. My question involves how one goes about recognizing a component which is perfect, perhaps a straight wire with gain. Because we never knowingly encounter perfection how do we recognize a component that is even significantly better than anything we have encountered before.
Scotty

[*Scotty*]

Tyson, I don't think it would be that simple. With so many variables and deviations from linearity in peoples systems if you put an amplifier in that was a straight wire with gain, it would pass what ever came in on through unaltered, which surely would not be advisable in many cases. Masking and omissions are used all of the time in the course of assembling a system with synergy that delivers what an individual desires to hear. Take out a key piece of flavor,masking or omission and the whole thing may come unraveled.
Scotty

[Tyson]

If a perfect camera came out that took perfect pictures, how would we know it, since no one has ever seen perfect pictures before?

I'm not 100% sure about this, but I think we'd have to look at the pictures and see for ourselves.