[jtwrace]

Alright guys, one last time.

STOP the flaming posts.  Read the guidelines.  http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=37305.0

[cab]

In the case of the nCore, it had strengths that I didn't really care about (bass control, smoothness, macrodynamics, detail), and weaknesses that I do care about (mediocre tonal balance, average musicality and emotional engagement).

I haven't noted those weaknesses in my system. Thanks for sharing your impressions.

[wushuliu]

Alright guys, one last time.

STOP the flaming posts.  Read the guidelines.  http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=37305.0

How do you do that when the 'points of view' you are trying to bypass from the discussion (hence the thread) nevertheless make themselves an active part of it, knowing full well they are only getting in the way of the thread's purpose. They're encouraged to do so clearly. It's top-down. So just kill the thread and be done with it.

[jtwrace]

How do you do that when the 'points of view' you are trying to bypass from the discussion (hence the thread) nevertheless make themselves an active part of it, knowing full well they are only getting in the way of the thread's purpose. They're encouraged to do so clearly. It's top-down. So just kill the thread and be done with it.

No it's the constant bickering and this doesn't help.

[Tyson]

I haven't noted those weaknesses in my system. Thanks for sharing your impressions.

Right, that's sort of my whole point - they don't become obvious right away. 

You stated before that all amps have their strengths and weaknesses.  Could you elucidate what you feel the strengths and weaknesses of the nCore are?

[medium jim]

Jason, the only way to end the constant bickering is to either bin the thread or give some a vacation.

Jim

[wushuliu]

No it's the constant bickering and this doesn't help.

But we all know the simplest answer to the bickering in this thread. It's all down to one person. One voice. If not for that the thread would have trailed off peacefully a long time ago. And it's going to keep happening over and over again.

[cab]

Right, that's sort of my whole point - they don't become obvious right away. 

You stated before that all amps have their strengths and weaknesses.  Could you elucidate what you feel the strengths and weaknesses of the nCore are?

How long you figure it takes to become obvious? I've spent hundreds of hours with the ncore....

Strengths are detail, flat frequency response, lack of coloration, bass control, dynamics

Weaknesses: any weaknesses upstream are unmasked making it hard to add the ncore without making more changes; maybe too accurate- bad recordings sound bad; if you aren't use to an extremely neutral presentation, it can sound a tad dry.

[Tyson]

Well, maybe you should be spending more time enjoying them and less time posting here.  You are happy with your amps.  The vast majority of reviewers are on your side.  A very few people don't agree.  Why can't you let us dissenters alone?  Does EVERYONE have to agree with you?  I've heard the nCore, and nothing you say will ever change my mind about what I've heard.  Just give it a rest already....

[cab]

I made one comment initially in which I simply said that perhaps the issues heard were from upstream, noting that several listeners have found this to be the case. From that, nothing but childish insults and immature name calling. Dissent all you wish, like I also said, I could care less who does or doesn't like the ncore. I have challenged comments by trash talking speculators that haven't a clue about the technology, much less even heard the amp under discussion, and I have asked you to clarify your issues in a respectful manner. If you put your views out there, they are subject to question and challenge. If you or anyone else can't handle that, then don't post them.

[sts9fan]

Everyone here is a fanboy!!! Just deal with it.
Cab and Rclark love NCore
Tyson is 100% bias against SS
Fero loves class A
Sts9fans is pretty much a Pass fanboy, anti tubes and pro class A.
How do you deal with it? Just tune them out. Would I ever put any weight behind a Tyson amp review? Never.
Would I ever listen to RClark without doing my own research? Hells no.
Am I going to try Ncore? Maybe.
Where's the Koolaid?

[jackman]

Guys, the only way to keep this thread alive is to ignore Cab. This guy wants te thread binned and I'd rather not give him the satisfaction.  Let's keep this thread open for some lighthearted discussion and fun.

[Letitroll98]

In the case of the nCore, it had strengths that I didn't really care about (bass control, smoothness, macrodynamics, detail), and weaknesses that I do care about (mediocre tonal balance, average musicality and emotional engagement).  Since I've come across this pattern of strengths and weaknesses before, it was easy to identify that it did things well that I don't care about, and did not do things well that I do care about.  So for me it's an easy pass.

Strengths are detail, flat frequency response, lack of coloration, bass control, dynamics

Weaknesses: any weaknesses upstream are unmasked making it hard to add the ncore without making more changes; maybe too accurate- bad recordings sound bad; if you aren't use to an extremely neutral presentation, it can sound a tad dry.

I really don't understand the argument.  I see these two statements as complimentary rather opposing viewpoints.  Taken together they exactly describe my impression of the Ncore amps.  I can easily see how the Ncore's might become tiresome for me with a clinical front end, but how that setup would be the cat's meow for detail and control freaks (that word used in a good way).  And I can imagine, from the two opinions above, how a carefully chosen front end would make the Ncore's very enjoyable to me, but might never satisfy a tube freak's needs.  So the two viewpoints exactly describe what I heard and what I might imagine the sound to be in different setups.  Gee thanks guys, you gave me a great perspective.  You can go back to fighting if you want to, but I don't see the point.   

[barrows]

I like the thread, as long as we can stay on topic.  As mentioned, the fault I found (in my brief time with the amps) was a lack of fully developed high frequency content.  Especially obvious in the decay of cymbals, bells, and chimes.  The strike is very, very clear, and the shimmer is present, but the ringing decay seems to be truncated, along with the tone which goes along with it.  This missing quality cannot be caused by a lack of distortion, as the sounds I am listening for are present in real cymbal, bell, or chime.  I hear them in my system with the Pass, so clearly the source is resolving them, but with the nCore they went missing.
So what I am (not) hearing from the nCore is not due to its tonality (or lack thereof, neutrality, perhaps) it is missing sonic information.  I do find the nCore to be quite lean, but that may just be neutrality-in any case slight tonal shifts can be adjusted for in the system.

[Tyson]

Everyone here is a fanboy!!! Just deal with it.
Cab and Rclark love NCore
Tyson is 100% bias against SS
Fero loves class A
Sts9fans is pretty much a Pass fanboy, anti tubes and pro class A.
How do you deal with it? Just tune them out. Would I ever put any weight behind a Tyson amp review? Never.
Would I ever listen to RClark without doing my own research? Hells no.
Am I going to try Ncore? Maybe.
Where's the Koolaid?

I resent that!!!  I'm only like 85% biased against SS amps

[Tyson]

I agree Jackman, I can only post so many reasonable replies to cab's assertions, based on my actual experience with the nCore's.  In the past I would have taken the opportunity to really sink to his level and go at it, but I must be mellowing out in my old age.  Ignore it is, from now on.

[OzarkTom]

I agree Jackman, I can only post so many reasonable replies to cab's assertions, based on my actual experience with the nCore's.  In the past I would have taken the opportunity to really sink to his level and go at it, but I must be mellowing out in my old age.  Ignore it is, from now on.

+1

[*Scotty*]

This is a semi-philosophical what if question based on the reaction I have observed to the introduction of the Ncore 400 to the audiophile DIY community.
 How would the audiophile community react to the introduction of the perfect amplifier? One readily available to the average audiophile for a modest price and a fews hours of work over a weekend. Would the reaction be any different from what we have seen so far to the introduction of the Ncore 400. Would we even be able to recognize a PERFECT amplifier if we could hear it within the context our own systems.
 I like to think I would know good if I heard it, but I am probably deceiving myself. Nothing else in my system is perfect, all of its components are made from real world materials by fallible human beings.
With that many variables in play there is probably no way to ever know if any particular component is perfect.
 It's fairly obvious to me that even the advent of a pretty good amplifier Ncore, will be met in a way that is similar to the reception of the hypothetical PERFECT amplifier. So far a fair number of people like how it performs within the context their systems and some people define their experience of listening to the amplifier in terms of what it doesn't do or the sins of omission it appears to commit.
 Remember I am just people watching here, I am on the outside looking in, in as much as I have not heard the Ncore yet and don't have any valid opinion of it based on how its sounds to me.
Does anyone here think the reaction to a PERFECT amplifier would be any different from what we have seen so far with the Ncore?
Scotty

[OzarkTom]

Scotty,we need the perfect source first, and that is far away from what we are getting.

I use to go to the CES show into the Revox room. Every few minutes they would do a demo to the audio dealers that entered the room. They had a wall placement of their rack system and Revox speakers. As their source, they had a record, CD, and the master tape of the same recording on their 3/4" Studer-Revox machine.

First, they would play the record, next the CD.The sound of the system was very mid-fi with very little imaging and depth. As soon as they hit the button on the master tape, evey mouth in the room fell open. The improvement was totally night and day. The Revox rack system came to life and wowed everyone.

Just to make sure that this was not a joke, every year I would watch at least 3-4 demos. It is real sad on how much the software is lacking compared to the master tape.

[Tyson]

I have another philosophical question instead.  If all recordings are colored, should our systems perfectly reproduce these colored recordings?  Or, in order to be 'perfect', should our systems be able to compensate for these colorations somehow?