[Minn Mark]

Fellow ACers,
I'm looking for a tuner which will take into the next many years....I'm not into internet radio so want a really rugged AM/FM tuner for use in SE MN. I listen mainly to local stations and NPR, and have looked on eBay and Audiogon. Any recommendations are appreciated. Currently using an old Hafler DH-330 tuner. I've looked at vintage units from Sansui (tu-717), Kenwood, Marantz and McIntosh. I'm not sure whether to try a private sale, or go to one of the websites like www.audioclassics.com.

Thanks for helping me out.  Money is flexible depending on what is recommended to me.


Mark

[doug s.]

hi mark,

what's most important - ultimate sonics?  or are you in a difficult reception area that also requires stellar sensitivity and/or selectivity?  there's a slew of tuna that will offer excellent sonics and good reception as well, and you do not have to spend a ton of money.  of course, you can if you want!     and don't forget an antenna - if possible a directional yagi mounted outdoors as high as possible, will offer best performance.  but if you have stations in different geographical locations, this means a rotor, or possibly more than one antenna w/a switchbox.  (some tuna actually have two antenna inputs as well.)  if mounting outside is problematic, you could put one in an attic space.  (if your roof isn't metal.)  then, there's ergonomics and aesthetics.  do you like the old wintage analog dial look?  are you ok with (or perhaps prefer) a modern digital display?  do you want a digital display and an analog display?  do you want presets and/or remote?  and, there's the question of money - how much do you wanna spend?  you can spend a lot, but you don't have to.

another point - if you really want the best performance, it is worth your while to have something properly refurb'd and aligned by a good tech.  and, if you are willing to spend extra money on mods, you can have a tuna that will come close to the wery best awailable at any price, for a somewhat reasonable cost.  amhik...    yes, even something like the sansui tu-717 you mentioned - it's a fine sounding thing, even bone stock, but it can be made into something really special.

me personally, i would awoid a place like audioclassics for a tuna - they charge more than top dollar, imo, and it's simply not worth it.  better, once you have decided on one (or a few?) you want to try, is to keep your eyes peeled on ebay for what you want, use a snipe service to ensure you don't overpay, and then keep at it until you have success.  then, live w/it for a while, see what you think, and send it out for refurb/mods to a qualified tech.  or, if you know it is "the one", arrange to have it sent directly to the tech; save a few dollars on shipping...

if you can give me more of an idea what you want, re: performance/price/ergonomics/aesthetics, i could come up w/at least a dozen suggestions... 

doug s.

[macrojack]

Mark - I have a Kenwood KT-917 that I am willing to sell at a very fair price. It has already been through the complete refurb at Ken Bernacky's shop in Connecticut.

The dial lights have since gone out and the variable output control has been bypassed. Works fine and sounds great. Do some research on it and ask Doug for a price recommendation.

[doug s.]

i have never listened to the kt-917, but it is one of the better-known "hi-end" tunas.  it retailed for $1k back in 1979.  go to http://www.fmtunerinfo.com/kenwood.html for info about it.  (as well as about other kenwoods, and other tuna in general.)

but, i have owned several wintage kenwoods. including highly regarded units like the kt8300 and the l-07tll  my experience w/these are that they are beautiful, have extremely good timbre and detail, but present a 2-d soundstage, with no depth.  but - this is in stock form.  when modded, they are a whole new ballgame!  (which is one reason why i really recommend getting a nice tuna modded if you really want good sound from fm.  even if you think your tuna sounds good, modding will take it to another level.)  i owned a kt7500 which ranked towards the wery bottom of the tic "shootouts". (see: http://www.fmtunerinfo.com/shootouts.html#KT-7500) but, the unit i had was properly modded by bill ammons, and it sounded great.  much better than the stock kt8300 i owned, that got a decent write-up in the tic shootouts - in fact, i would say the shootout description of the kt7500 matched the performance of my kt8300 - i was not at all impressed.  (the l-07tll i owned was modded by a diy'er, and it too was a fantastic sounding tuna.)

if you look at the tic shootout rankings, (admittedly only one person's opinion, in a decent system in a wery small room), you will see that the kt-917 ranks well enough, but considering its price, it is an underachiever - in stock form.  and, regarding the shootouts, i have owned quite a few tunas on that list, and while i have a few minor disagreements w/a coupla particular units, on the whole, i think the list is pretty decent.  (for example, i'd rank the kenwood kt8300 down near the bottom, and i'd rank the revox b261 up w/its cousin the b760.)  so for me, based on my kenwood experience, i would not pay the top dollar they command, unless they've been modded - even in stock form, they can sell for >$500.  but, if you could get one that's already been properly refurb'd and modded at a good price, it would be worth considering over something like a similarly priced sansui tu919, tu9900, accuphase t100, t101, philips ah673, revox b760, etc.  these are all tunas whose costs can be similar to the tx-917 when stock.  while i would choose any of them in stock form over a stock kt917 - my personal preference -  modding changes the playing field.  depending on the tech and the service, you could spend $300-$500 to have a tuna properly refurb'd aligned & modded...

so, bottom line for me on macro's kt-917, is it would be an excellent performer that i could easily recommend - if ken bernacky's refurb included the full mod package.  and ken is known to be one of the good techs, so the work can be trusted.

hth,

doug s.

[Mitsuman]

Mitsubishi DA-F20 is tremendous bang for the buck. 

http://www.fmtunerinfo.com/reviewsM-N.html

[doug s.]

Mitsubishi DA-F20 is tremendous bang for the buck. 

http://www.fmtunerinfo.com/reviewsM-N.html

agreed.  i owned one stock/never serviced; i thought it a smidge better than a stock/never serviced sansui tu9900 i owned at the same time.  that's saying a lot, as the tu9900 is one fine tuna.  (the tu9900 however is the most beautiful tuna of all time, imo.)  later, i owned a refurb'd modded da-f20 at the same time i owned a refurb'd modded tu9900; this time the tables were turned - a properly sorted tu9900 outperforms a properly sorted da-f20, but not by a lot. 

the only issue i have w/the da-f20 is that it does not have a hi-blend/noise filter switch.  if you have a slightly noisy station, you must go to mono; you cannot reduce noise in stereo as there's no function for this.

regarding hi-blend switches, imo the hk citation 14/15/18 tunas have the best hi-blend switches of any tunas i have ever tried, doing the least sonic harm.  in fact, they do no harm at all, only slightly reducing the soundstage width.  this is not true w/other tunas.  even my refurb'd/modded/aligned "holy grail" sansui tu-x1 ever so slightly diminishes detail in hi-blend mode...  my modded refurb'd aligned hk 18 is one of my all-time fave tunas.  fabulous sound, good reception, wery nice looking, if a bit unusual.  ergonomically a bit off the pace, tho, w/its "marantz-style" tuning knob.  it's slow to go from one end of the dial to the other...

doug s.

[bluemike]

I just picked up a Sony st 5150 Is this tuner worth getting an alignment
and replacing the electrolytics

How does it rate in terms of overall sound ?

[Mitsuman]

I just picked up a Sony st 5150 Is this tuner worth getting an alignment
and replacing the electrolytics

How does it rate in terms of overall sound ?

http://www.fmtunerinfo.com/sony.html

Best source out there IMHO. 

[doug s.]

I just picked up a Sony st 5150 Is this tuner worth getting an alignment
and replacing the electrolytics

How does it rate in terms of overall sound ?

i have never heard this tuna; here's a report from the tic:

"Sony ST-5150 (1974, $280, front, back) search eBay
The little brother of the ST-5130 is a surprisingly solid performer. The ST-5150 has 4 gangs and two green Taiyo ceramic filters that apparently have a very wide bandwidth, as one might expect in a tuner manufactured when the FM band was much less crowded. In stock form, adjacent channel selectivity is lousy, but the ST-5150 springs to life with 2 narrower filters installed. It has excellent sensitivity and a full, rich sound with particularly natural-sounding bass. The ST-5150 has multipath output jacks for connecting an oscilloscope, separate right and left channel level knobs for the variable output jacks, and a 75-ohm antenna input - unusual for an early-'70s tuner. There's a nice page on the ST-5150 at The Vintage Knob. The ST-5150 is much more common than the ST-5130, and usually sells for $35-80 on eBay (with a low of $8.50 in 11/04 and a high of $255 for a mint one in 4/05). [EF]"

(and it's "big" brother):
"Sony ST-5130 (1973, $370, front1, front2, inside, back) search eBay
The ST-5130 is a 5-gang, 8-filter tuner that was a favorite of DXers in the '70s and '80s. It has multipath output jacks for an oscilloscope, a headphone amp with built-in volume control (which allows Mike Bugaj to bring his modified 5130 for DXing on trips), and some other nice features that we'll write about shortly, thanks to an anonymous benefactor who donated a mostly functioning ST-5130 to TIC for evaluation. Our contributor Thrassyvoulos says, "My 5130 is a truly amazing reception machine. Even with a T-shaped wire it is one of my very best, comparable to my Yamaha T-85 and Sansui TU-9900! Now having said that, it is not the best-sounding tuner, as it has an overly warm, rounded sound in my system." Sale prices"

seems to me, from a cost perspective, it might not be worth it, but it will definitely make it perform better.  and it seems it's supposed to sound pretty nice as-is.  if you can do the work yourself, it is definitely worth it.

the sony's i am familiar with are the xdr-f1hd - killer reception, so-so/ok sonics; improved w/a tube buffer stage.  st-s730es - digitally synthesized (not hd), excellent reception, excellent sonics - not quite as good as the best, but not too far off.  st-a6b - i bought two from ebay.de; neither worked properly; i traded one to a competent tech in exchange for complete refurb/alignment/mods of the 2nd.  the result is one of the best sounding tunas i have; excellent reception, as well.

everything you ever wanted to know about sony tuna:

http://www.fmtunerinfo.com/sony.html

doug s.

[bhakti]

totally agree with all the above

[doug s.]

http://www.fmtunerinfo.com/sony.html

Best source out there IMHO. 

ya beat me to it - so much for me writing a book...   

doug s.

[doug s.]

Fellow ACers,
I'm looking for a tuner which will take into the next many years....I'm not into internet radio so want a really rugged AM/FM tuner for use in SE MN. I listen mainly to local stations and NPR, and have looked on eBay and Audiogon. Any recommendations are appreciated. Currently using an old Hafler DH-330 tuner. I've looked at vintage units from Sansui (tu-717), Kenwood, Marantz and McIntosh. I'm not sure whether to try a private sale, or go to one of the websites like www.audioclassics.com.

Thanks for helping me out.  Money is flexible depending on what is recommended to me.


Mark

oh, a coupla things i did not mention - i would awoid the mcintosh tunas.  the mr74 & mr77 are acknowledged to be the best sounding s/s macs (the mr78 being the reception king); i owned both a 77, which i had completely refurb'd/aligned, and a mint stock 74.  both rank towards the bottom of the many tuna i have ever had in my system.  and they are in a wery small group of tuna that i would refuse to own if i could only have one, simply because the sonics were so mediocre.  (some folks say the mr80 is the best sounding mac s/s; i have never heard one, but i have no desire to buy one to try either, unless i can "steal" it.)

regarding the mac tubed tunas, these are in fact really nice sounding tunas, imo.  i owned a completely refurb'd/aligned/modded-to-the-gills mr65b, and it was wery nice indeed.  but, i still would not recommend it, because a properly working sherwood tubed tuna will sound better, imo, w/reception at least as good.  and, you can buy 3 or four for the price of a nice mac.  or 2 or three, if you want them refurb'd.     even a mono sherwood, w/a modern solid-state mpx stereo decoder will outperform the tubed macs, imo.  i have two mono sherwoods - s3000lll fm and s2100ll am/fm, never serviced (we're talking ~50 years old), and one completely refurb'd stereo s3000v - all sound as good as anything i have ever heard.

for marantz, the modern st-17 sounds great; i did not like the fact that it did not have a signal meter.  the best sounding wintage marantz units, according to many, are the 20 and 20b.  yes, many prefer them even to the ubiquitous 10b.  some folks are partial to the 125 & 150, and some like the 2130 - a real beast.  all of these, except the 125 will cost a pretty penny, if in good condition.  (the 125 is exactly like the 150, but w/o an oscilloscope).  careful shopping may get you a decent 125 for ~$200...

you can find the marantz 20 hidden inside a marantz 18 receiver; these can also be expensive, but patience will find you a decent one for less than the cost of a 20 itself.  i had two, one refurb'd; i still have the unserwiced unit.  it is a wery nice sounding tuna, w/only so-so reception.  the receiver itself is prized by many for the sound of its amp & preamp, but i have never tried it that way...  the 20b is inside the 19 receiver; these are generally quite expensive and also well-regarded...

doug s.

[bluemike]

Thanks I read fm tuner and know alot about my unit
Small problem I discovered by 75ohm connection my antenna connection does not fit snugly as there is something in the way of it making contact
is there different 75 ohm connections ?

I'm plugging in a powered antenna and the connections is loose and the sound is lousy ..not good

[doug s.]

Thanks I read fm tuner and know alot about my unit
Small problem I discovered by 75ohm connection my antenna connection does not fit snugly as there is something in the way of it making contact
is there different 75 ohm connections ?

I'm plugging in a powered antenna and the connections is loose and the sound is lousy ..not good

there are a coupla different 75 ohm connectors, but usually found on european tunas.  if yours looks like the one in this pic from the tic, it's standard:



but, if it's loose, it is possible its innards are shot, and a replacement would be in order.  a quick fix would be to stick a small piece of wire in the connector's hole so it makes a better contact w/the center wire of the coax...

doug s.

[Speedskater]

Now I listen mostly to the "HD" (Hybrid Digital) sub-channels so my big old tuners are on the shelf.  I have a Sony XDR-F1HD and some JVC automobile 12 Volt tuners that I made power supplies for.  But both the Sony and JVC models are now dis-continued.

[michaelhigh]

Now I listen mostly to the "HD" (Hybrid Digital) sub-channels so my big old tuners are on the shelf.  I have a Sony XDR-F1HD and some JVC automobile 12 Volt tuners that I made power supplies for.  But both the Sony and JVC models are now dis-continued.

I got lucky and purchased the Sony XDRF1-HD tuner before they discontinued it, and thankfully so. I really get a lot of use out of it, every single day, with an excellently-programmed classic rock station and the blowtorch KMOX 1120 AM St.Louis simulcasting on KEZK 102.5 FM St. Louis. They are the flagship station for St. Louis Cardinals baseball and Blues hockey as well, both of which (listening to radio vs. watching on TV) to me are better than watching (and paying) for the cable channels just to hear crappy announcers. The radio folks in our market are superior in every way, true veterans in their field, and make listening to the games a real treat.

[doug s.]

i got lucky and sold my 2nd nib xdr-f1hd for $544.     these tunas are, w/o doubt the best tunas awailable at any price, for pulling difficult to receive stations out of the ether.  but there are far better sounding tunas out there, even cheaper than the original $99 selling price of the xdr.  a tube buffer between the xdr and your preamp is a relatively cheap and worthwhile "mod", but it still won't bring it up to the level of a quality wintage tuna - it yust allows serious listening for longer than 20 minutes w/o getting listening fatigue...  now that i finally installed a decent yagi antenna up in my attic, my xdr "back-up", that was used 1-2 times/week for one particularly difficult station, hasn't been switched on once.

here's a pic of two modded refurb'd tunas, that are in the group of the best sounding tunas i have ever heard.  with the yagi, even the wintage tubed sherwood has no problems w/my once difficult station.

and, that rotel rht-10, after refurb/mods, is now the best receiving tuna i own, next to the xdr - w/the old antenna, use of the xdr went from 1-2 times per week to about once a month, when the rotel was put in the rig.  before refurb, it was no better than my other good tunas, even some that have been refurb'd.

doug s.

[bluemike]

there are a coupla different 75 ohm connectors, but usually found on european tunas.  if yours looks like the one in this pic from the tic, it's standard:



but, if it's loose, it is possible its innards are shot, and a replacement would be in order.  a quick fix would be to stick a small piece of wire in the connector's hole so it makes a better contact w/the center wire of the coax...

doug s.

Thanks for the pic after looking at this a bit more carefully the black piece at the bottom in the pic gets in the way when i'm trying to connect my 75 ohm connector on my powered antenna
I can try to do what you're suggesting but the connector falls off if I nudge the line ever so carefully left alone it keeps a bit of contact but it is in no way latched on

[doug s.]

Thanks for the pic after looking at this a bit more carefully the black piece at the bottom in the pic gets in the way when i'm trying to connect my 75 ohm connector on my powered antenna
I can try to do what you're suggesting but the connector falls off if I nudge the line ever so carefully left alone it keeps a bit of contact but it is in no way latched on

that black bar - the am antenna - looks like it can swivel down.  and the 75 ohm connector looks to be a threaded connector.  (i assume your antenna has a push-on connector?)  perhaps getting a 3' long threaded 75 ohm coax wire to screw to the tuna, and an adapter on the other end, to attach the antenna would help...

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=090-414


http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=180-100


or, remove the antenna's connector (push-on, i suspect?) and replace it w/this:
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062632


doug s.

[bluemike]

Thanks so much for your help
Great suggestions
 last questions
Does it make sense to replace electrolytics based solely on the age the tuner sonics withstanding (the tuner works and sounds good)

What is the difference between fixed and variable setting which should I be plugging into