[vortrex]

simplex with a better cart or amadeus with a lesser cart?

for reference, I have a vpi classic w/soundsmith zephyr now.

[mick wolfe]

I have a Soundsmith SMMC2 on my Amadeus and no complaints. A sweet combination to my ears. As far as Simplex vs. Amadeus, I can only say it's easier to buy the more expensive table now and upgrade the cart. later than go thru the hassle of having to sell the Simplex to move up to the Amadeus.  For all I know, they might be sonic equals. However, if you buy the Simplex, you will always be wondering if the Amadeus and its 10.5" arm is better. Sorry, that's how the mind works. If you've got the funds now, buy the component you really want. I didn't just make this up, I've learned it the hard way. BTW, what wrong with the VPI Classic? It's been pretty well received.....I thought.

[code4246]

I would keep your VPI combo unless you want to move sideways.

 

[Shakeydeal]

I would keep your VPI combo unless you want to move sideways.

Yeah, that is a funny remark. I'm sure you were only kidding.

I came very close to plopping down 5K for a brand new VPI Aries but opted for the Amadeus instead. I feel like I made the right decision.

Shakey

[jsawyer09]

simplex with a better cart or amadeus with a lesser cart?

for reference, I have a vpi classic w/soundsmith zephyr now.

I think Mick has hit it on the head here. I've no clue if they're sonic equals, either; but the Amadeus is a proven component, so you'd know right away what you're getting (I'll vouch for it as well). Upgrade the cart later (though that Soundsmith is no slouch!), rather than the deck...unless you like the small footprint of the Simplex.

I was in the same position as you a few short months ago, and was seriously about to pull the trigger on the Simplex (new), when a demo Amadeus with only a few hours on it from a dealer fell into my lap. It was like serendipity. Anyway, I'm glad it worked out that way, because it will indeed be my last turntable (at least until Firebaugh comes up with another dandy, I often say to qualify that remark). Carts? Well, those are simpler to replace...

[vortrex]

I have a Soundsmith SMMC2 on my Amadeus and no complaints. A sweet combination to my ears. As far as Simplex vs. Amadeus, I can only say it's easier to buy the more expensive table now and upgrade the cart. later than go thru the hassle of having to sell the Simplex to move up to the Amadeus.  For all I know, they might be sonic equals. However, if you buy the Simplex, you will always be wondering if the Amadeus and its 10.5" arm is better. Sorry, that's how the mind works. If you've got the funds now, buy the component you really want. I didn't just make this up, I've learned it the hard way. BTW, what wrong with the VPI Classic? It's been pretty well received.....I thought.

I'm on my 5th turntable in the last year, I like experimenting as I am somewhat new to all this.  I do need to draw the line at some point though and put a cap on the budget, which is why I offered up the comparison. 

nothing wrong with the classic at all, but after reading a whole lot it sure seems like the WTA is the one single table that is universally recognized as the best there is in that price range (and above).  I looked into them before the classic, but couldn't past the looks and fact there is no cueing arm (I have pretty shaky hands).

I figure I would sell the zephyr and go with something new, something which is known to work well with the WT and the fact there is a fixed mount for the cart.

[vortrex]

I would keep your VPI combo unless you want to move sideways.

 

I like my classic, but it's definitely not reviewed as well as the WT.  in fact, you will see plenty of reviews out there where people do not care for the classic.  I can't find a single negative review or negative remark about the sound of the WT.  I really want to see if it is as magical as it is said to be.  the review at pitch perfect audio says a lot to me.
 

[threadkiller]

You would be the perfect candidate for an Amadeus. After having all those tables, you would certainly be in a position to understand why many are choosing the Amadeus for its musical qualities.
While I've changed my mind on the Simplex and do like it very much now, it is bettered by the Amadeus.  Size does matter.
It's not discussed much, but the Amadeus can be fitted with an optional cueing device from WTL, for those like yourself that must have one.

And agreed, a better table with decent cartridge will always outplay the reverse.
And don't forget a good IC.  Very important.

[vortrex]

It's not discussed much, but the Amadeus can be fitted with an optional cueing device from WTL, for those like yourself that must have one.

And agreed, a better table with decent cartridge will always outplay the reverse.
And don't forget a good IC.  Very important.

any more details on that mechanism?  I've never seen it mentioned anywhere.  I've got the synergistic research tricon analog phono cable now which I think is pretty good.

[roscoeiii]

Don't know anything about the cueing mechanism, but there is a fingerlift that is optional. I did not use it on mine. Just a finger underneath the arm is enough. Due to the silicon, the arm drops quite slowly onto the record. Always a gentle landing.

[threadkiller]

There is indeed an optional cueing device, not just the fingerlift.
Most users go without either.
Votrex, for you it might be a confidence issue. Once you started cueing in naked fashion and gotten used to it, you'd probably never think about it again.
However, you do get the option. And it's perfectly fine if feel you need it.
Because once you had an Amadeus you'll be wanting to play all your records!

[Erocka2000]

Don't know anything about the cueing mechanism, but there is a fingerlift that is optional. I did not use it on mine. Just a finger underneath the arm is enough. Due to the silicon, the arm drops quite slowly onto the record. Always a gentle landing.

How submerged in the fluid is your golf ball?  I find that too much makes the sound very closed in.  Mine is barely in the goop and has a nice open sound with more air in the soundstage.  But being that I have it so little in the goop, the arm definitely does not drop slowly. 

[roscoeiii]

I went with about 1/3 submerged, which seems to be the most commonly recommended.

[Erocka2000]

Have you tried submerging less to see if the sound opens up a bit or are you happy where you are?  I'm wondering if I submerge mine more, but then change the load on my cartridge, will it give me the same opened up sound.  Right now I'm loading my EMT at 243ohms.  I can't really find any recommendations for what the EMTs normally are loaded at.  If anyone knows, I'd love to hear. 

[roscoeiii]

Nope, I haven't tinkered with the depth. Put it at approx 1/3 and left it.

In a more OCD moment, I started a thread suggesting that WTA owners measure silicon depth, column height etc and post that info to share. I didn't do this because I am a set-up novice and did the set-up without the aid of a dealer and thus was not necessarily confident that I had a set-up that was optimal. Enjoyable, yes. But I just lacked the turntable experience to zero in on what might be missing or possible.

[mick wolfe]

I went with about 1/3 submerged, which seems to be the most commonly recommended.

]That seems to be a good baseline. (1/3 submerged ) When I started, I had the golf ball a tad over half submerged. Realized it was impossible to set the tracking force on my Soundsmith which only tracks at 1.3 g in the first place. The silicon fluid was too dominate and the arm was not moving fluidly. I'd start out at 1.3g and after an hour I'd be at 0.4g or believe or not, 2.1g. At that point I knew the diving bell was too deep. Up to around 1/3 submerged and all was cured. May try 1/4 down the road.

[mick wolfe]

any more details on that mechanism?  I've never seen it mentioned anywhere.  I've got the synergistic research tricon analog phono cable now which I think is pretty good.

I was curious about the an arm lift mechanism as well. It's only a $75 option if you think it necessary. I passed on it when I ordered the Amadeus and now I'm very comfortable cueing by hand. The guys here told me as much about a month ago. The dynamic of the silicon fluid makes manual cueing much easier than a conventional arm. As far as the phono cable is concerned, I'd stick with what you have. I tried 4 different IC's with the Amadeus and they all let the magic of this table shine through. It would probably sound good with a coat hanger.....shielded of course.

[threadkiller]

Interesting logic, to be sure..
I only mentioned the cueing option for vortex. Just didn't want him denying himself the pleasures of nicely retrieved analog grooves.

[jsawyer09]

This is turning out to be a great thread. I, too, have mine submerged about a third (I think it was purely by accident...but it sounds excellent).

I agree with threadkiller here; I do believe this would be your last 'table, as I believe it will be for many (like I said, me included). If you can get past the looks (which I'd have to disagree with you there; I think it is a very beautiful piece of engineering...it looks better in person), and find a cueing mechanism, it is the way to go. This is assuming it sounds better than the Simplex.

I've owned seven or so turntables in the past three years (still own two of them; two were different levels/upgrades of a Linn LP12), and all were considered very good and well respected. The Amadeus more or less trounces them top-to-bottom, and it is the easiest to set up as well; about as set-it-and-forget-it as you can get. 

[vortrex]

If you can get past the looks (which I'd have to disagree with you there; I think it is a very beautiful piece of engineering...it looks better in person), and find a cueing mechanism, it is the way to go. This is assuming it sounds better than the Simplex.

sounds like with the fluid I will be OK lowering it down.  I just kind of have a thing against all black tables.  the versalex sure looks nice but I don't think I could spend that much extra just for the look of it.  I'm definitely interested in trying out one of these tables.