[turkey]

Frank said: "I guess I gotta admit this too, sometimes, with certain records, when the alignment of moon and stars are correct, I find musicality in my record collection that is hard to equal with the best production DACs we build.  Unfortunately, I do not have CD copies of hardly any of my favorite old LPs so its impossible to make a direct a-b comparison.

If you look at the mechanics of reading information from a record groove with the stylus and all its associated hardware, it  is much like trying to read Braille with a sledgehammer.  It is a wonder that the system works at all."


That's hardly saying LP is superior.

[turkey]

With a really good recording, LP is ok. With a really good recording, CD is superb.

I have enough superb CDs to play that I no longer really bother with LPs. They're a PITA, and the surface noise isn't something I can ignore. I also don't really like the added distortions that are simply a given with phonographs. Call them euphonic or musical, call then what you want, but I don't like them. There's kind of a "phasey" sound to even the best LPs that bothers me. I also don't like the way dynamic sounds break up at their peaks with records.

[rcag_ils]

If memory serves me well, in the past, Frank said something like his DAC is better than spending thousands of dollars on a analog set up. That means, if we are willing to spend that much money on a analog set up, the result could still go either way.

Frank said this during the early days when he was promoting the then new Ultra DAC, not just recently, I should have pointed that out.

[Wayner]

Turkey,

I know you and I agree on many topics, but I'm going to have to throw this out there. I certainly love Frank's DACs. My new Insight+ DAC has taken that realm to a new level, one that I have not yet fully discovered.

There is a quality on vinyl, that many have learned to identify, that sometimes is elusive on a CD. It's hard to explain, but you must have a very revealing LP playback system to appreciate it. While CD's have the dynamic range, sudden impact, bass and and a low noise floor, the turntable with the right cartridge and one of Frank's Insight+ phono boards is very musical. The only way I can describe it is that the edges of the music are different. Perhaps it's the decay of the natural reverb with in the recording, or the more natural roundness of analog distortion, as opposed to the horrible in the red digital overload (the recording engineer's fault), or just the overall sound field in general. The are some evenings with me as well, when the music on vinyl becomes magical. It can bring out emotions that are unexplainable. Suddenly, your tearing up listening to some Roy Orbison song. Why? You become so involved with the music, you forgot about the source, didn't care. I have had this happen less often with CDs too, but I blame that on the other system I have with the only AVA component being the DAC.

The real truth of the matter is that both worlds have their own plus and minus aspects to them. I believe Frank has taken the CD world to a new level of excitement with his newest advances to his DAC line-up. But he has also been working on phono boards. The Insight+ phono board is absolutely killer.

Now here we go, but I think I have better vinyl playback at my house, then anything I heard at RMAF. Some systems where many, many thousands of dollars and they sounded like fingernails on a chalk board. But then that is just my opinion, and I didn't have gobs of time to listen in the other rooms.

When Frank was powering Jim Salk's new HT-4s or whatever the name is now, The new DAC was killer. I heard lots of songs over and over and was always impressed.

I guess I have strattled the fence on this one again.

Wayner

[turkey]

There is a quality on vinyl, that many have learned to identify, that sometimes is elusive on a CD.

Yes, it's something that phonographs add to the sound, and it's because of the limitations of the medium.

It is not there on the master tapes, and it is not there on CD.

I call it distortion, but you're welcome to call it musicality if you like.

the turntable with the right cartridge and one of Frank's Insight+ phono boards is very musical.

I have a Longhorn Grado and an Insight+ phono section with 10K ohm input load. I used an old setup protractor that is similar in concept to what you came up with. My turntable setup seems to be better than is required, given the limitations of the medium.

The only way I can describe it is that the edges of the music are different. Perhaps it's the decay of the natural reverb with in the recording, or the more natural roundness of analog distortion, as opposed to the horrible in the red digital overload (the recording engineer's fault), or just the overall sound field in general.

The edges of the music are different... yes, that probably describes what I hear on dynamic peaks with LPs.

The decay of the natural reverb in the recording will be more faithfully reproduced by CD. I suppose not everyone will like that.

More natural roundness of analog distortion? Can you provide some proof this is true?

What about when a digital master is used to make an LP? Does this LP then sound better to you than a CD made from the same master?

The are some evenings with me as well, when the music on vinyl becomes magical. It can bring out emotions that are unexplainable. Suddenly, your tearing up listening to some Roy Orbison song. Why? You become so involved with the music, you forgot about the source, didn't care. I have had this happen less often with CDs too, but I blame that on the other system I have with the only AVA component being the DAC.

I don't see that those emotions are unexplainable. I find that listening to, recording, or making music is very emotional.

A good recording and performance on LP can be very emotional. I just feel that the same recording and performance on CD will be even better.

advances to his DAC line-up. But he has also been working on phono boards. The Insight+ phono board is absolutely killer.

It does a very nice job with a necessarily limited medium.

I do agree that there are some old records out there that are very good, and there may not be anything to equal them on CD. But it's because of the recording and/or performance, not because they're on LP.