am I doing something wrong with my Ultra DAC

rcag_ils · « **on:** 13 Nov 2009, 01:29 am »

I am not starting a debate of vinyl vs. CD, I don't even want to talk about them.

Help me out here....

I have the most expensive AVA DAC--the Ultra. I don't have time to listen to my system on a daily basis.

But every time I switch from listening to CDs to vinyl, vinyl ALWAYS sound better. The sound of the CDs coming through the DAC like has no soul.

Am I doing something wrong with my DAC, or is there something wrong with the CD recording?

S Clark · « **Reply #1 on:** 13 Nov 2009, 03:06 am »

It's very hard to beat the quality of decent vinyl. The newest, latest, magical dac is still trying to approximate analogue.

WGH · « **Reply #2 on:** 13 Nov 2009, 03:08 am »

What is your source?

ecramer · « **Reply #3 on:** 13 Nov 2009, 03:14 am »

Quote from: WGH on 13 Nov 2009, 03:08 am

What is your source?

That's an other can of worms computer or cdp and does the transport matter or analog way to many ways to start a fight with that. in any case i was wondering the same thing about his source.

rajacat · « **Reply #4 on:** 13 Nov 2009, 03:48 am »

Perhaps you're listening to poorly mastered and/or highly compressed disks.

boycephoto · « **Reply #5 on:** 13 Nov 2009, 04:18 am »

OK... no can of worms, this is just my experience. I listen to digital 90% of the time, the turntable the other 10%. I have about 400 records from sadly worn to as new condition but the artists and performers I like to listen to "today" have very limited source material availabile on vinyl, it's all on CD. I have always thought my table sounded beter than a CD or SACD, I just can not find the vinyl sources for the entertainment I like.

I have occasionally thought about selling the table, new vinyl seems to be getting more expensive, it is a hassle to use and costly to maintain, there is lots of source noise, inconvenience, and is an outright pain

(yes, its a Linn) compaired to a CD player. But I am not ready to part with it yet, because it sounds too good.

Happy Holidays,
Dave

rcag_ils · « **Reply #6 on:** 13 Nov 2009, 04:37 am »

My sources are as follow.....CDs, Kind of Blue, Dire Straits. Neil Young Harvest Moon, Lps Dire Straits, Dire Straits (Brother in arm), Roberta Fleck (Killing me softly)

Digital----Cambridge Audio player used as transport for the Ultra DAC

Analog---today I used Systemdek XII, with a Grado Black cartridge. Sometimes I used other turntables. I won't list them here, since I am trying to find out if there's anything wrong with my digital set up. I already tried another CD player as transport with no difference in result.

As far as the CDs that I listen to, yes, I can tell some digital recordings are more superior than the others. But once I play a record on the turntable, I don't want to go back to CD. The only factor that motivate me to play the CDs is convenience, and easy to operate.

I wouldn't say CD sucks, I just think I should have gotten more out of the Ultra DAC.

S Clark · « **Reply #7 on:** 13 Nov 2009, 04:44 am »

Cambridge makes a pretty decent cd player at each level in its product line. It shouldn't make a good cd sound like $#1T. How does the Cambridge sound with just its internal dac? Which one is it, the 540,640,...?

srb · « **Reply #8 on:** 13 Nov 2009, 05:01 am »

Are you using the coaxial digital output vs the optical?

Edit:
Question retracted, I just realized the AVA DACs do not have optical inputs.

Are you using a digital coaxial cable versus an analog type interconnect?

Steve

WGH · « **Reply #9 on:** 13 Nov 2009, 05:39 am »

I have a theory: The CD's you mention were mastered for vinyl so it stands to reason a record will sound better.

Theory #2: Have you tried different cables? As an example I have a couple old pair of Straight Wire LSI - Linear Series Impedance Interconnect cables that must have high impedance or something because it robs the soul out of any source I plug them into, Radio Shack cables are better the these.

I have an Insight DAC and with a great recording the sound quality is equal to vinyl. The NYAR CD's that Lonewolf graciously gave away at the last RMAF has some real interesting music and all the cuts sound excellent. PM me your address and I'll send you copies of the 4 disks. Once you listen I think you will be more than happy with the Ultra.

Wayne

charmerci · « **Reply #10 on:** 13 Nov 2009, 10:02 am »

Well, you could always invite Frank over for a weekend. Or maybe it's a bad/dying tube.

But maybe you just like vinyl better than digital. Nothing wrong with that.

turkey · « **Reply #11 on:** 13 Nov 2009, 11:11 am »

Vinyl has inherent distortions, including phase distortion, that may sound euphonic to some people.

In addition, some CDs just show off how bad the original recording was. I feel vinyl tends to hide this kind of thing.

turkey · « **Reply #12 on:** 13 Nov 2009, 11:13 am »

Quote from: charmerci on 13 Nov 2009, 10:02 am

But maybe you just like vinyl better than digital. Nothing wrong with that.

Ok, but it means you like increased levels of distortion. I guess that isn't wrong, but it sure isn't something I would choose to pursue.

Big Red Machine · « **Reply #13 on:** 13 Nov 2009, 11:13 am »

Quote from: charmerci on 13 Nov 2009, 10:02 am

Well, you could always invite Frank over for a weekend. Or maybe it's a bad/dying tube.

But maybe you just like vinyl better than digital. Nothing wrong with that.

Kinda like when I woke from my coma to discover I like tube amps more than SS.

Have you tried a Squeezebox instead of a transport?

And we'd like to know the cables you have in the stream.

charmerci · « **Reply #14 on:** 13 Nov 2009, 11:27 am »

Quote from: turkey on 13 Nov 2009, 11:13 am

Quote from: charmerci on 13 Nov 2009, 10:02 am
But maybe you just like vinyl better than digital. Nothing wrong with that.

Ok, but it means you like increased levels of distortion. I guess that isn't wrong, but it sure isn't something I would choose to pursue.

Actually, my thinking is that most of us grew up on hi-fi vinyl. There's a characteristic sound (and maybe even the scratchiness of the needle in the groove) that gives us pleasant "memories" and good feelings about the sound which makes some of us favor the vinyl sound.

Btw, I don't have a tt and don't miss it.

Wayner · « **Reply #15 on:** 13 Nov 2009, 12:30 pm »

Just because it's a digital recording doesn't mean it's super-duper. I have good and bad examples of CDs. What preamp are you using?

Wayner

martyo · « **Reply #16 on:** 13 Nov 2009, 12:51 pm »

Quote

And we'd like to know the cables you have in the stream.

Yeah, what Big Red and Steve asked.

avahifi · « **Reply #17 on:** 13 Nov 2009, 03:28 pm »

I guess I gotta admit this too, sometimes, with certain records, when the alignment of moon and stars are correct, I find musicality in my record collection that is hard to equal with the best production DACs we build. Unfortunately, I do not have CD copies of hardly any of my favorite old LPs so its impossible to make a direct a-b comparison.

If you look at the mechanics of reading information from a record groove with the stylus and all its associated hardware, it is much like trying to read Braille with a sledgehammer. It is a wonder that the system works at all.

I do know that Wayner's turntable is definitely quieter than my old upgraded HK T30 (external big 12V DC power supply and bearings floating in liquid silicon). It is not a matter of rumble or noise that you can actually hear or that gets in the way of the music, but just a sense of the background going to a black velvet stage. Nice.

Best regards,

Frank

Dan Kolton · « **Reply #18 on:** 13 Nov 2009, 04:44 pm »

What Frank said! I do have several CDs of material I have on vinyl. My preference varies depending on which pair I compare. I think most of the time, the Ultra pre and DAC sound slightly more like the vinyl than the comparable Insight gear. Not saying which I prefer, because, as mentioned, that depends on what material I'm comparing. Before you ask, it's a Technics SL1200 with KAB damping trough, Grado Statement Sonata, and dbSystems head amp at 47k load.

bummrush · « **Reply #19 on:** 13 Nov 2009, 04:51 pm »

How many cd's do you have? If you dont have many ,you're not going to find out how good the dac is in the first place,but any cd system that doesnt show off the differences between discs isnt doing a good job in the first place