[TheChairGuy]

So many years ago I don't wanna' remember it...I had a cheap JVC belt drive JLA-20 table.  On the advice of my then local audio store, he told me of the benfits of Mortite caulking compound. 

I pounded that gummy crap in the table, on the table, and at key points on the tonearm.  It was paired with cheapie ADC cartridge (a good old cartridge) and when I played it I was floored.  It fed back with gobs of detail, fantastic bass, a settled feeling to the music that belied it's modest price tag.  Despite cheap arm, cheap cartridge and overall construction of the table - it was quite revelation to me.

My audio guy, who turned me into the Mortite stuff, heard it and was slack-jawed.  He had never heard bass like that before.

I treated joints with a product called 'Tweek' back then, and in my zeal, put the contact-enhancng goop IN the tonearm collar and not just on the pins.  Well, the stuff created a bond so strong is broke the collar when I tried adding a new Grace F-9e cartridge to it to really hear what it could do and so it was that my first ugly buttling table died.  My audio dealer actually had that table on display for a year in his showroom (I suppose to show folks what nuts he catered to) as he couldn't part with it after he heard what it could do. DOA Audio in Huntington, NY had a fire in 1988 or so, and the (first) mummified JVC of TheChairGuy was offered to the aduio gods above in ritual sacrifice 

Except for a brief interlude with a Townshend Rock table, Helius arm with (cheapie) modded Grado circa 1988, I haven't heard bass that good since.  I figured that cartridges didn't advance much, that I'm spoiled by wider frequncy response of CD in the interim, or that it was just a mirage.

I had a brain fart about that Isolator that Cartridge Man sells for $150.00 now.  Everybody is lauding it as a worthwhile tweek - bass, in particular, is improved. It's just a constrianed layer of materials that converts energy and dissipates it into heat.  Knowledge of it's effect has been around for a long time now...but this is the first time it's been applied to the tonearm/headshell interface commercially it seems.
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?anlgcart&1166180800

Worthwhile as it may be, it's $3 in materials in it. Some tacky foam rubber and stainless steel sheets is all it looks to be.

I had forgotton in subsequent years, even with my mummified JVC ql-a2 experiment recently, that I FORGOT TO ADD DAMPING CLAY TO THE TOP OF THE CARTRIDGE, WHERE IT MEETS THE HEADSHELL.  As I said, I haven't heard bass as good since.

Well, I added a pinch of Plast-i-Clay (much better/easier to work with them old Mortite clay caulk) to the top of my Grado Green headshell and BLAM, there was that bass line again, that settled feeling where everything sounds right.   

So, while it may not be as effective as The Isolator, The Plast-i-Lator will bring you considerable benefit of the same type for near nothing but your time.  Apparenty, damping that interface between cartridge and headshell is an important one for performance.  Your ever-tweekin' ChairGuy found out now twice in his life.  It's a major tweek along the lines of the the Longhorn/internal coil damping mod of Frank van Alstine, filling your table with about as much Plast-i-Clay as it can hold and, for those that have belt drivers, adding Tufoil to the main bearing.  Add The Plast-i-Lator to your list of must-do tweeks for improving vinyl performance.

Tho a pain, vinyl just got a serious further boost in performance with the addition of The Plast-i-Lator 

Stop treating your cartridge, arm and table like anything ore than it is ...an electro-mechanical device for sound reproduction.  A few odd tweeks and it'll be singing the likes of which you hadn't thought possable before.

The Plast-i-Lator - Worldwide Patents and Trademark pending ( kidding  )
 

[BobM]

Let me get this right. You put the clay/Moretite between the cartridge and the headshell and not just around the sides of where the cartridge is clamped to the headshell. Effectively creating a cartridge - clay - headshell sandwich, or a buffer layer of clay between the 2 hard surfaces. Is that right?

I would assume the cartridge sinks into the clay a bit when you tighten it down. Aside from the obvious rebalancing of the arm for the added weight, and the VTA for the added height of the arm at the headshell, I would guess you would need to adjust the azimuth to make sure all is square to the record again.

Are you sure that the added height of the cartridge at the headshell isn't just what's improving the bass? By raising the height there you effectively dropped the rear of the arm downward, which tends to increase bass. Did you hear any change in the top end doind this tweak?

Thanks,
Bob

[TheChairGuy]

Hey Bob,

The 'sandwich' of Plast-i-Clay I use is near razor thin...the Grado's have a concave body on top and it fits nicely in there with a little spill over the edges.  I only do the top - where the cartridge body meets the headshell.   I think I may try a larger sandwich in the future to see what positive effect, if any, more Plast-i-Clay buffer has there 

It does sink into the clay...as the clay is holding the cartridge body snug and you don't want it all to oooze out, don't tighten hard.  Tighten only until the cartridge body meets the clay buffer.

Definitely, you need to re-balance, re-azimuth it after you've added your Plast-i-Clay and got the overhang right.

My VTA is non-adjustable on my JVC.  So, to adjust VTA I have different mat types I use under the record: an Audioquest Sorbothane one is best directly in contact with platter surface...it really damps the singing.  But, in contact with the record, it sucks the very life from it.  So, on top of the Audioquest mat, I use one of two thickness types of Griptex/Rubermaid undershelf/rug liner or Herbie's TT mat (with foam).  Which top mat I use is dictated by the VTA.

So, because the sandwich isn't very thick right now, and that I use different mat thicknesses to adjust VTA, the better bass and silence between the notes isn't due to a change in VTA, per se.

As for top end, I'm 43, and while my ears are healthy (no tinnitus, no notable hearing loss), I have the can't turn back the reality of lesser ability to hear higher frequencies. My upper register hearing is probably as good as many/most 43 year olds (I get regular Chiropractic adjustments, have low blood pressure and cholesterol, etc), it is nonetheless not the hearing of when I was 18 and made my first clay 'Isolator'. Unfortunately, that's the ravages of age at work.  So, I'm not sure about better treble performance with this tweek, nor even if the cheapie Grado I'm using as a test bed can provide excellent treble performance anyhow. But, I'm pretty sure I can say it ain't worse than before.

Try it out - let us know your opinion of it. I'd like to know, at least 

The Plast-i-Lator; a better phonograph experience for pennies.

Thx, John /TCG

 

Let me get this right. You put the clay/Moretite between the cartridge and the headshell and not just around the sides of where the cartridge is clamped to the headshell. Effectively creating a cartridge - clay - headshell sandwich, or a buffer layer of clay between the 2 hard surfaces. Is that right?

I would assume the cartridge sinks into the clay a bit when you tighten it down. Aside from the obvious rebalancing of the arm for the added weight, and the VTA for the added height of the arm at the headshell, I would guess you would need to adjust the azimuth to make sure all is square to the record again.

Are you sure that the added height of the cartridge at the headshell isn't just what's improving the bass? By raising the height there you effectively dropped the rear of the arm downward, which tends to increase bass. Did you hear any change in the top end doind this tweak?

Thanks,
Bob

[TheChairGuy]

Hey Bob (et al)....

I had some time this afternoon and thought about the depth of the sandwich as Bob pointed out.

So, I about triped the height of the Plast-i-Clay packed in there, and lo and behold, another nice increase in additional resulution was the result.  The dang thing works, and more is a bit better than less. It was about 2.5-3mm thick to start and probably squished down to more like 2mm after lightly tightening the cartridge body screws.

I don't know where the law of diminishing returns is, or if the Cartridge Man's Isolator is indeed more effective, I just know...

1.  Significant resonance exists at the cartridge / headshell interface that needs to be tamed for better re-production

2.  The Plast-i-Lator really works at diminishing that resonance

3.  A bit more is better than a bit less (assuming your arm can still balance all the exta weight)

4.  Don't be chintzy on the Plast-i-Clay 

I don't think anyone would ever guess this is a $100.00, 26 year old Direct Drive turntable with a $60 Grado Green on it right now.  It's presentation is truly inspiring now...one would naturally assume a $$$megabuck analog front end is handing the music now.

Keep in mind, this is with the cheapest stylus that Grado offers...the same one as on the $40.00 Black model...I think replacement cost is like $30 on it.  $15 of which is dealer mark-up.....so Grado is probably making these styli for less far less than $10 in materials.  A better stylus, like on Cartridge Man's $995.00 (Grado Gold-based) Music Maker III, would really improve matters.

Oh, oh, I hear my mind turning again 

[Wayner]

As you may know, I have been playing with this as well (isolating the cartridge). I have to admit that I never thought of the plasticlay idea. It, for now, seems like a good idea, as it stops unwanted vibrations from going up the tone arm, but the material is also rigid enough to keep the cartridge from moving.

I will put some on my Longhorn Grado Gold in the Empire 598 this weekend and report back.

Wayner

[TheChairGuy]

Wayner, having listened last night at length to my TT, now shorn with The Plast-i-Lator, I can come back with some listening thoughts.

The Plast-i-Lator, at about 2.5/3mm thick, is about on par in effectiveness as the Longhorn mod....perhaps greater even if your cartridge started out life as a fabulous tracker.  Grado's may also kick back a lot of energy into the arms...making this tweek further effective.  But, they aren't good trackers, either, so both tweeks seem largely necessary to getting the most our of vinyl listening.

Anyhow, that Cartridge Man is onto something.....but we can all replicate much or all of the betterment for pennies with The Plast-i-Lator 

There is the first official get-together of NORCal this Saturday and I'm bringing over my rig...so it'll be good to have other sonic confirmation of what we have here in good vinyl playback.

As you may know, I have been playing with this as well (isolating the cartridge). I have to admit that I never thought of the plasticlay idea. It, for now, seems like a good idea, as it stops unwanted vibrations from going up the tone arm, but the material is also rigid enough to keep the cartridge from moving.

I will put some on my Longhorn Grado Gold in the Empire 598 this weekend and report back.

Wayner

[BobM]

I have no doubt that any kind of product that reduces vibrational energy or dampens vibrations will work wonderfully on inexpensive products, where this aspect of the design may have been overlooked. But how well would this tweak work for a better arm and cartridge, where dampening HAS been taken into consideration?

I'm tempted to try it on my Dynavector 20XH and Moerch DP6, but the set up alone (and re- setup to undo it if it doesn't work) is holding me back. Arrrrggggghhh. I'm a tweaker at heart and would love to try it, but am waiting for some others to tell me this, or the Music Man product, make a sufficient difference on higher quality products.

I guess I actually have my answer, looking at the Music Man site, where they are using it on expensive stuff.

Enjoy,
Bob

[gooberdude]

very cool tweak chair guy.      

i gotta figure out how to deal with the extra weight the Longhorn has added & now the plasti-lator.  a heavier counterweight from pro-ject plus the needed marigo dots isn't cheap, so i keep sliding the counterweight back & back.   scale reads 1.5 & it balances & sounds great.     I tried adding a penny to the counterweight, sounds terrible though.  


Hey Wayner, have you damped the coils in your Longhorn Gold?


I tried an worthwhile tweak last night  & need some help - removed the anti-skate fish weight
support pole from its mount at the arm base and taped it to the plinth about a cm away from the orig location.  musicians are now shoulder-to-shoulder, duets are scary.  lots of soundstage gaps filled in - a fundamental change for the better.

the design of the pro-ject carbon tonearm has this support pole mounted directly on 1 of the 2 arms base mounts to the plinth - a lot of arms have a similar design.   got lucky that this funky japanese duct tape holds the pole firmly in place & allows me to bend the pole to get the proper dimensions back.   getting the pole to the orig dimensions was crucial too.  


can anyone suggest proper ways to mount that little support pole to the plinth?  my gut sais to glue it & i'm not willing to screw it into the plinth & don't know of a glue that will hold the pole in place while it sets.  the more the pole is isolated from the plinth the better, but the mount has to be pretty solid without disturbing the plinth.      

the tape holds perfect, but i'll take the weight off each night.  its not a perm or semi-perm solution i don't think.      if you could find strong tape that matches the plinth, this'd be stealth.

i recomend the $5 marigo vts dot for any cartr that it will fit on - to anyone.  it plus the longhorn is just ridiculous, finally got to A-B the LH on/off last night too - it is absolutely essential.

Frank Van Alstine responded to a question of mine the other day & said to glue the LH.  that it was important the mount not be flexible.  i really like the elephant snot ball i got going & the ability to remove it.    anyone have an opinion?     i'd glue it with something that could be pulled off - dunno about epoxy or super glue though.  

[TheChairGuy]

BobM
I think you got your answer, but didn't like it.  Happens all the time to everyone, of course; it's up to you.  If you do, tho, I think you will find a great advance in your listening pleasure. 

gooberdude
I don't have an answer for a few of your questions, but I'm surprised you found the penny to sound 'ugly'.  I didn't notice any difference on my old JVC table strapping one on.

I like using my bituminous goo/elephant snot on the cartridge body to hold the Longhorn.  It's more flexible (temporal) if I ever need to take it off, and I figure it damps the cartridge body right in-elegantly 

I do have to add some constrained layer damping dots....good reminder  .   

[gooberdude]

I was real careful to make the penny tweak work, it just didn't for me.  took a pea size ball of
snot & attached the penny to the bottom 1/2 of the counterweight at & below the tonearm hole - in the middle...kinda emulating Rega 300 arm aftermarket counterweights (weight down low).  When mounted, the penny did not actually touch the tonearm.  with the marigo VTS dot system in place anything extra touching the tonearm affects sonics bigtime - didn't want the penny vibing against  the counterweight & tonearm.

it had the effect that so many bad tweaks have had before...an elated 5 minute honeymoon upon 'seeing further' into a tune.  soon thereafter though its apparent the bass was jacked up, not there & not pretty -telltale sign for me.

the extra counterweight is necessary, the plasti-lator will be the straw that broke the camels back.  i think mine is rated to 6gms, i have it set to act as over 7 right now...10 grams will be tough.   if anyone tapes the penny, try the snot though.

what photo sites have free services to remotely post pics? 

 

[TheChairGuy]

You can post pics in your own gallery at AudioCircle and have them show on your post.

Just upload them to your gallery, then click on them, then right click to get their location....and inert the .jpg or .tif file between the insert image icon (above when you post, 2nd line, next to last on the left)

See....



  TCG

[Wayner]

Gooberdude,

Yes, I have done my Longhorn with the Dow Corning 1000 centistoke damping on the coils. When I was over to Franks, he gave me a little of the stuff. I have also dismantled the anti-skating on the Empire, deciding that it no longer works as the turntable is 37 years old. I used the fishing line, fishing lure wire eyelet (taped to the post on the arm assembly and have also included the bullet weight. I also used  a short piece of guitar wire (.009) E sting up from the bottom, through the hole in the weight to keep it from swinging. The fishing wire is tied to the front top anti-skate adjustment post above the tone arm on the pivot assembly. It, goes around to the back of the assembly, through the eyelet and then is fed through the weight. I tied a small nylon washer to the end of the fishing line so that the height of the weigh never touches the plinth of the turntable, or the eyelet. The E string was cut about 2 inches long leaving the brass barrel on the end (as a weight) and that end simply rests on the plinth. the wire then goes through the bullet weight from the bottom side. I keep this E string about 5 degrees off of vertical and it keeps the weight from swinging. It works very well.

This weekend I'm going to do The Chair Guys Plast-i-lator between the Longhorn and the cartridge mounting plate, but I also thought I may have to put some between the Empire cartridge mounting plate and the tone arm head. Empire had a secondary plate that the cartridge mounted to be used as a quick changeout for cartridges. All that was needed was more plates. It's held on with the thumb screw at the top of the tone arm head.

Here is a fairly good close-up of the mod.

[gooberdude]

thanks Wayner & TCG.

Wayner, you're table is sweet!!!!!     

attaching the weight from the top & bottm is the genius, reminds me of the punching bag at a gym that simulates body movement, very trick.  those are held in place by bungie cords from the ceiling & floor.

i'm happy as a pig in s&^% with the fish weight support pole taped to the deck.
at some point i'm going to try a dab of silicon RTV to hold it in place, then be done with it.

its just a bad idea to send the weight vibes back into the arm....

GD

[BobM]

Well I tried the Plast-i-lator last night, but I used a small amount of Moretite. In hindsight I probably should have used a small piece of EAR Isodamp (I have a small bit lying around). Maybe next time for that.

Anyway, I wound up with about a 1/16" piece between the cartridge and headshell after it was tightened up, aligned and the azimuth checked. I was able to clear away any that squeezed out the sides or front with a utility knife. Big note here - even after making things reasonable snug I found that it took very little effort to pivot the cartridge front and back and move it off its square alignment. I will check this again this weekend and see if it shifted by itself. I think this is probably due to the suppleness of the Moretite. Perhaps the EAR Isodamp will go in this weekend, as a result.

Anyway, yes, it works. The bass was tighter and the top end seemed to be a bit more clear (probably partly due to the bottom end clearing up). Not an eye opening difference, but noticeable to me.

Good tweak on the cheap. Just a bit of a pain to readjust, but then again anything affeting a TT and cartridge is a pain to readjust, especially with that expensive and fragile little cantilever just hanging out there in space.

Enjoy,
Bob

[TheChairGuy]

Bob,

I used, at first, about 1/32" (1 mm) to start and found some benefit....then I tripled it up to about 2.5/3mm and found the benefits to be greater.  Bass improved, noise seemed to diminish and the whole she-bang was more settled, and easier to listen thru the music.  It just sounds more refined that a $60 cartridge ought to now 

More seems to be better in this case - all things the same.  Where that benefit drops off, or goes the other way, is unknown.

I don't think Mortite or Plast-i-Clay will be much different than one another.  The EAR ISodamp, on the other hand, may be very different (better or relatively worse  )

Try a little more on there - and/or try the EAR Isodamp.  That's about the best stuff you can buy I've heard; it's got to better mimic Cartridge Man's little 'wad' than Mortite or Plast-i-Clay. 

[BobM]

it's got to better mimic Cartridge Man's little 'wad' than Mortite or Plast-i-Clay. 

huh, huh, huh, chuckle, snort ... he said "wad"

(Sorry, a little punchy today. 1st day in production with a new application. All's well so far.)

I will try the Isodamp this weekend. The ease of losing the alignment in the lateral plane bothers me.

Bob

[Wayner]

Da wife is going to use a rolling pin and roll me out some nice 1/16" think layer of Plast-i-lator and then I will cut out a shape that is close to the footprint of the Grado gold.

Because of Bob's noteworthy concerns about movement, I think I'm going to use 2 small nylon washers in between the cartridge top and the mounting plate with the Plast-i-clay in the same layer. The theroy is that the washers will snug the cartridge up better than just sitting on the plast-i-clay and yet the plast-i-clay is there to do the wonderful vibration damping. Hopefully, the washers won't transfer enough energy to cancel the effects of the plast-i-lator.

I'm going to start now.

W

[TheChairGuy]

As above. I found 3/32 (or 2.5/3mm to be more effective then 1/16" or 2/32" (or about 1mm) - food for thought while you got yer wife's pie and pasta pin out 

Looking forward to hearing about how your 'wad' ( ) fares, Bob.  Professionally speaking, of course 

Da wife is going to use a rolling pin and roll me out some nice 1/16" think layer of Plast-i-lator and then I will cut out a shape that is close to the footprint of the Grado gold.

Because of Bob's noteworthy concerns about movement, I think I'm going to use 2 small nylon washers in between the cartridge top and the mounting plate with the Plast-i-clay in the same layer. The theroy is that the washers will snug the cartridge up better than just sitting on the plast-i-clay and yet the plast-i-clay is there to do the wonderful vibration damping. Hopefully, the washers won't transfer enough energy to cancel the effects of the plast-i-lator.

I'm going to start now.

W

[Wayner]

OK, OK it's 3/32" then. That's .09375" decimal equivelant for all of you nonmachinists.

Where would we be without our guiding light, John, TCG?

Now to work.....where is da wife, anyway?

[Wayner]

Plast-i-lator is in!

1st comment is that the tone arm head is heavier, but I had enough back travel on the counterweight to balance the tone arm at 1.5 grams. I had to adjust the VTA to match the additional height as well.

As far as the bass goes...it's about the same. John, you may be hearing more base because your VTA is non-adjustable and with the head now higher, that is a cause/effect relationship.

I will say that after only one side of The Cars, Door to Door, the tacking seems to be very improved. This is going to require at least 12 drink me, drink mees and the rest of the evening for a complete evaluation, So this is off-the -record.

I'm no Jedi, yet!