Vinyl, not bummed any more.

Letitroll98 · « **Reply #20 on:** 3 Feb 2013, 07:09 pm »

I agree with trying a new cartridge or a new stylus on that cartridge as the first step, but that may not be enough. I was given a similar table by a friend cleaning out his mom's attic, a Pioneer PL-200, with the only caveat that I don't sell it. I have to keep it and make it run or throw it away. I've had a devil of a time making it sound good. I put a very nice Grado Gold cartridge with a aftermarket line contact stylus that sounds wonderful on my VPI, but is vague and indistinct on the Pioneer. I'm still playing with it intermittently, but don't have any real hope it will ever sound as good as even a cheap Pro-ject table I have. It's not your fault.

WireNut · « **Reply #21 on:** 3 Feb 2013, 07:16 pm »

Quote from: trackball02 on 3 Feb 2013, 06:57 pm

Wirenut, I posted my experience in getting a cheapo Technics DD turntable under "Free Craigslist Find". I'm happy with it's sound but it did take a bit to improve it. First, check the RCA cables, mine were frayed and intermittently cut out or were full of static. You need to replace them. Second, pack the plinth with plastic clay. Third, lubricate the motor.

Mine came with a new Shure M44-7 cartridge, so that was not an issue. I agree with the comments about installing a new cartridge. As, I recall, you have a vintage receiver with a phono preamp. Does your current turntable also sound bad when plugged into the receiver? As far as getting a phono preamp, it makes a huge difference. I am using a Nova Phonomena (overkill in this case) but makes a huge difference in sound quality compared to my older $200 phono preamp.

Hi trackball02,

As a matter of fact I was enjoying it when I had it hooked up to the receiver. I was only disappointed when I hooked the TT and
DJpre2 phono stage up to my Sonic Frontiers, Audio Research system. The Vinyl setup seems to be SCREAMING for me to install a graphic equalizer (UGH) with the controls in a "V" configuration.

Hopefully the Shure cart I have will be replaced this week with something better.

JackD · « **Reply #22 on:** 3 Feb 2013, 07:39 pm »

Wirenut

A couple of free things to try. Take the stylus out and re-seat it and put the capacitance switch on the ART of the 200pf setting. All Shure cartridges from that era like to see 400-500 pf or they can be bright and forward in some set-ups. I had an ART in house for a short time that I gave to my son and I don't remember it being bright or bass shy. Maybe you just got a bad one. If you got it from Amazon you can just send it back.

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #23 on:** 3 Feb 2013, 08:07 pm »

Persevere, WireNut....we all here worship at the vinyl altar for some reason I can assure you

I had that M95HE cartridge.....it's more like 30 years old. I liked it better the much more expensive Shure V15VxMR tried 20 years later, personally (tho it's always a crap shoot on quality for cartridges of that age - whether they've been used or not)

John

wushuliu · « **Reply #24 on:** 3 Feb 2013, 08:08 pm »

Still no mention of which table. Technics made great ones, good ones, and not so good. It would help to know what table.

JackD · « **Reply #25 on:** 3 Feb 2013, 08:19 pm »

From ealier post I think it is an SL-D3

WireNut · « **Reply #26 on:** 3 Feb 2013, 08:29 pm »

Quote from: wushuliu on 3 Feb 2013, 08:08 pm

Still no mention of which table. Technics made great ones, good ones, and not so good. It would help to know what table.

It's a Technics SL-D3 which is in great shape for it's age. Everything on the TT works perfectly so far.

If I download a alinement protractor from vinyl engine as Elizabeth suggested which one would I get?
Is it based on a specific cartridge or the turntable or both?

jimdgoulding · « **Reply #27 on:** 3 Feb 2013, 08:37 pm »

Might outta try shimming your cartridge as suggested. Questions?

JackD · « **Reply #28 on:** 3 Feb 2013, 08:40 pm »

Most of the Japanese tables from that era use Stevenson alignment and like Jim said the VTA is tail up that would explain the brightness along with a lack of capacitance

WireNut · « **Reply #29 on:** 3 Feb 2013, 09:00 pm »

Quote from: jimdgoulding on 3 Feb 2013, 08:37 pm

Might outta try shimming your cartridge as suggested. Questions?

OK, thanks. I'm looking into that now.
Is it possible to measure the capacitance at the end of the RCA's with a DMM to find out want I have? Just wondering.
I made my interconnects based on John Risch's belden recipe.

roscoeiii · « **Reply #30 on:** 3 Feb 2013, 09:03 pm »

Unless it is a universal protractor, protractors are based on the TONEARM.

roscoeiii · « **Reply #31 on:** 3 Feb 2013, 09:04 pm »

Which I learned the hard way after trying to set up my Moerch tonearm with a protractor for arms with a Rega geometry.

WireNut · « **Reply #32 on:** 4 Feb 2013, 12:23 am »

Thank you all for opening up my brain and pouring your knowledge in and making me realize how important VTA is on my turntable. Since I can’t adjust VTA on my tone arm the only way I could accomplish it was to rise the album or shim the cartridge. I ended up raising the album 3/16” by adding a second rubber platter and a 12” round piece of kitchen foam shelf liner.
The end result is substantial. It is obvious to me that the stylus was leaning backwards.
Detail, treble and sound stage increased big time, better bass definition, all around probably a 30% increase in sound quality.
I’m on my way now. Next step is a better cartridge to suit my taste.
I knew you all could help me. Thank you so much.

Steve

JackD · « **Reply #33 on:** 4 Feb 2013, 01:05 am »

Next step with what you have before buying anything is to toggle the capacitance switch on the ART and see if you hear any difference. If not then the stylus is probably shot and NOS styli for that cartridge are hard to find and expensive, so you would be better served by buying a new cartridge. The Shure M97xe is slightly rolled off on top unless you keep the total capacitance below 250pf and preferably way below. The Ortofon OM's are neutral and the AT's slightly forward as are the Ortofon 2m's. So you have the main contenders in the under $100 market.

WireNut · « **Reply #34 on:** 4 Feb 2013, 01:17 am »

Quote from: JackD on 4 Feb 2013, 01:05 am

Next step with what you have before buying anything is to toggle the capacitance switch on the ART and see if you hear any difference. If not then the stylus is probably shot and NOS styli for that cartridge are hard to find and expensive, so you would be better served by buying a new cartridge. The Shure M97xe is slightly rolled off on top unless you keep the total capacitance below 250pf and preferably way below. The Ortofon OM's are neutral and the AT's slightly forward as are the Ortofon 2m's. So you have the main contenders in the under $100 market.

I have a lead on a Audio Technica 440MLa the guy say's is "almost new" for $125.00 plus ship.
But I can get a brand new one from LPgear for $167.00 plus ship.
Being so new to vinyl, I'm Leary of buying used cartridge's.

*Scotty* · « **Reply #35 on:** 4 Feb 2013, 01:38 am »

If you aren't cash strapped I would recommend you get a new one.
Scotty

JackD · « **Reply #36 on:** 4 Feb 2013, 02:06 am »

If you are determined to buy a AT-440mla and understand that they are forward in there presentation, then I agree with Scotty buy the new one. Like most current AT's they work best with a resistance loading below 47k IMO, but YMMV.

WireNut · « **Reply #37 on:** 4 Feb 2013, 02:23 am »

Forward won't work for me so maybe the 440MLa isn't the way to go. I like a detailed high end, definitely not forward, but with a punchy bottom end, not sloppy, flabby or bomb-ie. Very tight and punchy.
My other alternative is the Audio-Technica OC9 MKII. A co-worker of mine has me stuck on Audio Technica. I have NO experience with them.

JackD · « **Reply #38 on:** 4 Feb 2013, 02:52 am »

Then try the Denon Dl-110 instead. It is detailed, but not forward and and has bottom end punch and detail. To me it is a little lean in the mid's but it starts to round out after 50 hours or so. It should be less than the 440mla even at places like LP Gear or Needle Doctor. Needle Doctor has free shipping on orders over $99 and the Denon is $139

bentconvert · « **Reply #39 on:** 4 Feb 2013, 02:57 am »

Quote from: WireNut on 3 Feb 2013, 08:29 pm

If I download a alinement protractor from vinyl engine as Elizabeth suggested which one would I get?
Is it based on a specific cartridge or the turntable or both?

I found the Conrad Hoffman custom arc template generator worked very well for me. You should be able to find required data for your table on Vinyl Engine or out on the web somewhere.

Steve