OB SUBS FINALLY WITH SPATIAL M3

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dallaire1

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Re: OB SUBS FINALLY WITH SPATIAL M3
« Reply #140 on: 12 Oct 2022, 10:44 pm »
Just playing around with data results from some previous shots of the system. I think the decay of these subs are quite evident in the graph. I just selected the t-20 decay for both the two OB subs and my previous Sealed sub. I is pretty amazing the quick decay for sure. I cant wait till I get the time to really play with them.

The bit more smoothness in the midrange is due to the 706 mounted panels behind my listening space. The measurement's were months apart. Just thought this very impressive.





dallaire1

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Re: OB SUBS FINALLY WITH SPATIAL M3
« Reply #141 on: 12 Oct 2022, 11:00 pm »
this is with crossover set wide open on sub amp.

dallaire1

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Re: OB SUBS FINALLY WITH SPATIAL M3
« Reply #142 on: 13 Oct 2022, 02:35 pm »
Was able to find about 5 hours later today to dedicate to shooting measurements, will post results today or tomorrow. Looking forward to it!

dallaire1

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Re: OB SUBS FINALLY WITH SPATIAL M3
« Reply #143 on: 14 Oct 2022, 07:18 pm »
Well went to shoot measurements with REW. Updated REW and ran into all sorts of problems with REW producing corrupt sweeps, noise, hesitations,clicks pops... Got that corrected after 4 hours, then had to put things away for another time. Will get this done and dialed in very soon!😔

dallaire1

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Re: OB SUBS FINALLY WITH SPATIAL M3
« Reply #144 on: 16 Oct 2022, 10:48 pm »
I think I have decided to sell, if anyone is interested shoot me a PM.
Vince

dallaire1

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Re: OB SUBS FINALLY WITH SPATIAL M3
« Reply #145 on: 19 Oct 2022, 11:26 am »
These are now listed for sale under the "trading post" (speakers and stands) circle.

Hobbsmeerkat

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Re: OB SUBS FINALLY WITH SPATIAL M3
« Reply #146 on: 20 Oct 2022, 03:53 pm »
Im not sure why I hadn't thought to ask this yet.
Assuming you still have the original boxes that the plate amps came in, was there an O written on the top the inner boxes?
The outer shipping box should also have something like "A370 PEQ-OB12" written on both of the ends of the box.

If by some reason they don't, that means the amps were never configured for OB use, and are the ones configured for sealed/ported use only. The outer box should say "A370 PEQ-S3" on the sealed amps.

Here's what each version looks like:


hawkeyejw

Re: OB SUBS FINALLY WITH SPATIAL M3
« Reply #147 on: 22 Oct 2022, 11:54 am »
Just read through the whole thread and was surprised nobody asked about the fact Vince is saying he needs to go to 80% master volume to get to 80 db peaks? Aren’t the Spatial speakers high sensitivity? Am I the only one that thinks that sounds odd? Perhaps I am misunderstanding but could be another thing to look at Vince if I am following correctly. Are the Spatials playing to acceptable volume levels by themselves without cranking the MV up way past 50%?

77SunsetStrip

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Re: OB SUBS FINALLY WITH SPATIAL M3
« Reply #148 on: 22 Oct 2022, 02:10 pm »
Just read through the whole thread and was surprised nobody asked about the fact Vince is saying he needs to go to 80% master volume to get to 80 db peaks? Aren’t the Spatial speakers high sensitivity? Am I the only one that thinks that sounds odd? Perhaps I am misunderstanding but could be another thing to look at Vince if I am following correctly. Are the Spatials playing to acceptable volume levels by themselves without cranking the MV up way past 50%?

Yes, that is a good question.  With a Main Amp claimed to have over 400 watts, pushing Main Volume setting to 80% should make your ears bleed.  Although, there were enough replies essentially saying "this does not make sense".  I pointed out if one of the blinking LEDs on the Sub amp indicated over driving the input, that is a problem.  Never saw a response indicating that issue was explored and/or solved.  Hobbs reply about Sub Amp configuration is worth investigation.

We have all been there assuming everything has been checked multiple times and every possibility explored.  Step away for a while and completely start over with a calm mind - forehead slap and voila.

hawkeyejw

Re: OB SUBS FINALLY WITH SPATIAL M3
« Reply #149 on: 22 Oct 2022, 02:24 pm »
Yes, that is a good question.  With a Main Amp claimed to have over 400 watts, pushing Main Volume setting to 80% should make your ears bleed.  Although, there were enough replies essentially saying "this does not make sense".  I pointed out if one of the blinking LEDs on the Sub amp indicated over driving the input, that is a problem.  Never saw a response indicating that issue was explored and/or solved.  Hobbs reply about Sub Amp configuration is worth investigation.

We have all been there assuming everything has been checked multiple times and every possibility explored.  Step away for a while and completely start over with a calm mind - forehead slap and voila.

Yeah, I am unsure if the 80 db was full range or subs only but if full range something is definitely off upstream!

Tyson

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Re: OB SUBS FINALLY WITH SPATIAL M3
« Reply #150 on: 22 Oct 2022, 02:51 pm »
If the input was being overdriven, it would be easy to check by switching from the RCA input to using the speaker level inputs.

77SunsetStrip

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Re: OB SUBS FINALLY WITH SPATIAL M3
« Reply #151 on: 22 Oct 2022, 03:24 pm »
If the input was being overdriven, it would be easy to check by switching from the RCA input to using the speaker level inputs.

Danny suggested that, asked for a report.  There were many good troubleshooting suggestions.  Responses did not clearly indicate a specific suggestion was implemented and result reported.  I know communication via text is difficult both ways.  Hate to see Vince give up.

Early B.

Re: OB SUBS FINALLY WITH SPATIAL M3
« Reply #152 on: 22 Oct 2022, 06:16 pm »
We have all been there assuming everything has been checked multiple times and every possibility explored.  Step away for a while and completely start over with a calm mind - forehead slap and voila.

We mentioned this a hundred times. There's a 99% chance this was the problem all along. I recall starting from scratch with one of my OB servo subs and it worked out. I never determined where I screwed up. It could have been wired properly, but a poor connection somewhere. Who knows?

dallaire1

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Re: OB SUBS FINALLY WITH SPATIAL M3
« Reply #153 on: 23 Oct 2022, 02:42 pm »
MY apologies, I have been up north with no signal for a few days. The ultimate issue I have is either my M33 output is loosing steam to feed the plate amps ? or the plate amps themselves are clipping at a certain master volume setting. I just can't get the "output" I feel that seems balanced to human hearing, at least in my case. I usually bump up the low end to compensate like the Fletcher Munson curves and research indicate about the way we as humans perceive sound balance. I cannot listen to a "flat" response, I think it sounds incredibly lifeless. So again, I just need the amps to be able to keep up with the M33 output. The sound reproduced by the M3's with this amp will part your hair ! That may be part of the problem ??

I am including two pictures of the Servo board on the amp itself that is labeled OB12 on the board itself, so I am assuming this will rule out any confusion about amp/driver mating issues. I just don't think these subs are going to work for my situation. I have been having correspondence with Brian at Rythmik. He has told me their sealed subs have more output than the OB subs as one might expect. He went on to say the ported models have even more output yet, but don't think I would go that extreme as I still want a very musical low end, and Rythmik really does seem to corner the market on that.






dallaire1

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Re: OB SUBS FINALLY WITH SPATIAL M3
« Reply #154 on: 23 Oct 2022, 02:50 pm »
Sorry forgot something. I am using the "SUB OUTS" they put out 1 volt whereas the "PRE AMP OUTS" have 3.9 volts available. I still have the clipping issue with either configuration. Again I am using bass management which I will admit removes energy from the signal because it is bringing down a lot of peaks in the response and leaves me turning up the M33 to achieve the same levels with Dirac on vs. off. It is not a problem for the M33 because it can pick up the pace with no trouble, however I just don't feel the A370 can keep up, again I listen often at relatively high levels when in the mood. I think I am going with one of Rythmik's sealed subs with the 600 watt class D amp. I pretty sure this will fix my problem I am told.

Vince

dallaire1

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Re: OB SUBS FINALLY WITH SPATIAL M3
« Reply #155 on: 23 Oct 2022, 03:11 pm »
I would love to mate these OB subs with the 600 watt class D amp but don't even know if that would be an option. I think that might resolve the issue as well perhaps.

77SunsetStrip

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Re: OB SUBS FINALLY WITH SPATIAL M3
« Reply #156 on: 23 Oct 2022, 04:24 pm »
Have you confirmed with Brian what the two LEDs you see blinking indicate?  If indeed, one is an indicator on the input, what does blinking mean?  If blinks mean the input is being over driven, you must fix that problem before expecting any positive results.   

Do you really listen at 80% of maximum on your Main Volume control?  If you run only the Spatial Audio speakers, what dB level do you listen at?

Did you try the speaker level inputs to the Sub amps as Danny suggested?  If so, what was the result?

Is it possible the Open Baffle configuration for the amps is in firmware that could/should be updated?  With supply issues these days, would not rule out incorrectly configured amps regardless of marking.  Have you asked Brian to exchange one or both of the amps to determine if you have defective amps?

alaska_grown

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Re: OB SUBS FINALLY WITH SPATIAL M3
« Reply #157 on: 23 Oct 2022, 09:18 pm »
Apologies, are you using a mini-DSP?

I had a problem when I first started using one, not realizing the DSP has its own volume setting that is only visible with the DSP app. Had the crank up the preamp to crazy levels just to hear anything from the magnepans. Wasn't until I went back in to redo the settings after moving things around where I noticed the DSP volume was set at -30 db!


Danny Richie

Re: OB SUBS FINALLY WITH SPATIAL M3
« Reply #158 on: 24 Oct 2022, 01:40 am »
A couple of things still.

Did you try the speaker level inputs to the sub amps?

And what you have been describing still sounds like a sensing coil is wired out if phase.

I know those speakers pretty well. There is a pair at Ron Brenay's just a few miles from me. Clayton also came by with his new X4 model (same speaker but with the Beyma tweeter) and we listened to them in my listening room with and without servo subs.

A pair of doubles like you have should be able to play several db louder than you speakers with ease and with headroom to spare. They can hit levels well above 100db (even up to 115db) in your room all the way down to 20Hz. I can't imagine you listening to your main speakers that loud.

dallaire1

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Re: OB SUBS FINALLY WITH SPATIAL M3
« Reply #159 on: 27 Oct 2022, 12:22 am »
Sorry guys, I've been totally covered up with work lately and haven't had much free time. I'm pretty much done trying to get this amp/sub/Dirac combination figured out. I would like to maybe keep them if I can implement one of Brian's class D 600watt amps. I'm in the middle of correspondence with him now regarding that. If he can pull it off, I will consider going that route. I know it sounds crazy, but that's just what I feel this sub needs if Dirac is going to be used. I love the fact of having loads of headroom when driving any speaker and think for ME, this pairing comes up a bit shy. Just my experience and two cents.

Vince