[Rashiki]

If anyone's interested in getting the Wadia iTransport, I just got an email from MusicDirect with a combo package:

http://www.musicdirect.com/product/83363

The package includes the iTransport, the PS Audio Digital Link III DAC and a Creative Cable Concepts Black Knight digital cable for $1199. I don't know if that's generally a good price, but it's $275 cheaper than buying the individual items from them.

 -Rob

[TONEPUB]

Ive got a PS Dig link III hear.  Its pretty good, but the Channel Islands is a bit
more musical...

[jhm731]

Tonepub- how come your review didn't compare the Wadia iTransport with the SD Duet or SD SB3?

[jhm731]

Notice how Tonepub has ignored both of my questions about his Wadia Ipod Transport review:

"Do you plan to take jitter measurements on the Wadia and compare them to jitter measurements from the SD SB3, Transporter and Duet's digital outputs?"

"how come your review didn't compare the Wadia iTransport with the SD Duet or SD SB3?"

Just another Internet audio advertising site.

[AmpDesigner333]

I'm very interested in this product.  I'm founder of Digital Amplifier Company (www.DigitalAmp.com), and we've been working on a direct digital amp.  The iPod, when used in lossless mode and digital out (USB) is a great source, but developing such a product requires lots of cash (license fees) for Apple and lots of SW work.  I'm interested in the transport only --- digital out from the iPod, to feed an amp with S/PDIF.  Is there a product out there that simply connects to the iPod over USB and provides a TRUE digital out (no re-digitization)?  I have several patents regarding the amp part, but no source other than CD/DVD digital out to feed it!  Thanks.

[TONEPUB]

Notice how Tonepub has ignored both of my questions about his Wadia Ipod Transport review:

"Do you plan to take jitter measurements on the Wadia and compare them to jitter measurements from the SD SB3, Transporter and Duet's digital outputs?"

"how come your review didn't compare the Wadia iTransport with the SD Duet or SD SB3?"

Just another Internet audio advertising site.

I didn't ignore your question, I've been waiting around to see if my Mother is going to live for
the next six months or not.  Slightly more important than an iPod dock question...

No, we don't plan on taking jitter measurements. I honestly don't get that nerdy with our
reviews, though we have a technical editor on staff that could do this.  It's a bunch of
under 400 dollar digital products.  And none of my daughters teenage friends that had
a blast playing with it did either.  But they all got pretty excited about how good their
iPods could sound.

The majority of people buying digital product at this level could care less about
the jitter level between the three.

Im not a SB fan, I've had them all and the transporter, though Im intrigued with
the Duet.  We currently have one in for review.

Comparing the Wadia with the SB is irrelevant, because they are completely
different products. The SB product is a true music server and the Wadia
is just a way to get the digital signal from the iPod.  160GB hardly qualifies
as a full blown music server in my book.

For what it's worth, I just got a note from the people from Wadia telling
me that of all the publications that reviewed the iDock, I was the only
one that grasped the true nature of the product, so I can sleep just fine.

And please tell me how I pay a staff of 22 people without selling advertising
when we give the content away.  If you don't like TONE, don't read it. We have
almost 200 thousand readers that love it.  And please keep the snide comments
to yourself, especially when you don't know the whole story.

My sense of humor is pretty short this week.

[AmpDesigner333]

Is there a product out there that simply connects to the iPod over USB and provides a TRUE digital out (no re-digitization)?

Does anybody know the answer to this question?  Thanks.

By the way, TONEPUB, very sorry to hear this about your Mom.  You have got to be sick with worry.  Hope your family is OK.

[jhm731]

Notice how Tonepub has ignored both of my questions about his Wadia Ipod Transport review:

"Do you plan to take jitter measurements on the Wadia and compare them to jitter measurements from the SD SB3, Transporter and Duet's digital outputs?"

"how come your review didn't compare the Wadia iTransport with the SD Duet or SD SB3?"

Just another Internet audio advertising site.

I didn't ignore your question, I've been waiting around to see if my Mother is going to live for
the next six months or not.  Slightly more important than an iPod dock question...

No, we don't plan on taking jitter measurements. I honestly don't get that nerdy with our
reviews, though we have a technical editor on staff that could do this.  It's a bunch of
under 400 dollar digital products.  And none of my daughters teenage friends that had
a blast playing with it did either.  But they all got pretty excited about how good their
iPods could sound.

The majority of people buying digital product at this level could care less about
the jitter level between the three.

Im not a SB fan, I've had them all and the transporter, though Im intrigued with
the Duet.  We currently have one in for review.

Comparing the Wadia with the SB is irrelevant, because they are completely
different products. The SB product is a true music server and the Wadia
is just a way to get the digital signal from the iPod.  160GB hardly qualifies
as a full blown music server in my book.

For what it's worth, I just got a note from the people from Wadia telling
me that of all the publications that reviewed the iDock, I was the only
one that grasped the true nature of the product, so I can sleep just fine.

And please tell me how I pay a staff of 22 people without selling advertising
when we give the content away.  If you don't like TONE, don't read it. We have
almost 200 thousand readers that love it.  And please keep the snide comments
to yourself, especially when you don't know the whole story.

My sense of humor is pretty short this week.

I understand why you ignored my questions... you and your staff can't answer them.

Don't care how many people you employ, without measurements, your publication is
only important to MP3 users like your teenage daughters.

Don't really care if you're not a SB fan, comparing digital playback devises at this price point is totally relevant.

Like I said, you're just another Internet audio advertising site.

Best wishes to your Mom.

[JEaton]

Like I said, you're just another Internet audio advertising site.

Ouch.

There are an awful lot of these little audio magazine-like sites out there, aren't there?  Is it some kind of new hobby?  What ever happened to woodworking or fly fishing?

[JohnR]

Like I said, you're just another Internet audio advertising site.

Ouch.

There are an awful lot of these little audio magazine-like sites out there, aren't there?  Is it some kind of new hobby?  What ever happened to woodworking or fly fishing?

JEaton and jhm731: no-one is forcing you to read anybody's site or magazine. While of course you can have an opinion like everybody else, kindly keep the cheap insults to yourselves.

You can consider this an "official warning."

Thanks

JohnR

[AmpDesigner333]

I'm very interested in this product.  I'm founder of Digital Amplifier Company (www.DigitalAmp.com), and we've been working on a direct digital amp.  The iPod, when used in lossless mode and digital out (USB) is a great source, but developing such a product requires lots of cash (license fees) for Apple and lots of SW work.  I'm interested in the transport only --- digital out from the iPod, to feed an amp with S/PDIF.  Is there a product out there that simply connects to the iPod over USB and provides a TRUE digital out (no re-digitization)?  I have several patents regarding the amp part, but no source other than CD/DVD digital out to feed it!  Thanks.

Let me clarify...  Is there something similar without the video portion, and preferably smaller size?  Thanks.

[art]

As for jitter measurements.........

One of The Big Boys just reviewed this unit. They did not include any jitter measurements, either.

To avoid the scrutiny of the management, I won't comment on what I think about that unit. But if you do want to know what kind of jitter level it has, you can PM me. (I know the answer.) But only if you want to hear me unload on it. You have been warned!

Pat

[Stu Pitt]

Maybe a stupid question, but I haven't seen or heard any reference to how the iTransport is controlled.  I know there's a small remote, but is that it?

Does the video out portion also give you an on-screen display?

Or do you have to use the remote to fast forward through hundreds or thousands of tracks?

Or do you use the scroll wheel in the iPod?

[The Computer Audiophile]

As for jitter measurements.........

One of The Big Boys just reviewed this unit. They did not include any jitter measurements, either.

To avoid the scrutiny of the management, I won't comment on what I think about that unit. But if you do want to know what kind of jitter level it has, you can PM me. (I know the answer.) But only if you want to hear me unload on it. You have been warned!

Pat

As far as I know the SPDIF port jitter is around 4ns. Here is a link to Gordon Rankin's detailed teardown of the unit http://www.computeraudiophile.com/node/560

[art]

Translation: 4 nSec sucks. But that is about all that can be done with that TI chip.

A really bad SPDIF RX chip (Yamaha, I know all to well.........) is around 1 nSec.

The various Crystal RX chips are supposed to be around 200 pSec. Not sure it is quite that low, but, yes, they are better than the Yamaha.

The newer TI stuff claims under 100 pSec. Haven't got around to measuring the designs we are futzing with that has them, but, yeah, it could be that low.

Compare that to a really good stand-alone transport: 10 pSec or so.

At least that is the starting point coming out of the clock. Of course, you can muck things up from there. (Lots of folks do.) But if you start with 4 nSec, there is no way to fix it.

Unless you come up with a secondary PLL or a ASRC. Most of the latter are horrible. (A certain one that Crystal makes and is in a lot of inexpensive products comes to mind.........)

Pat

[Housteau]

If jitter is technically one of the most common enemies to digital playback, then how can such a high jitter device be reviewed by so many respected reviewers in such positive ways?  Robert Harley loves it and even places it on a higher level that the original CD the music came from.  There must be more to this equation than jitter alone.

[champ10]

Could someone with experience explain to me the protocol for testing for jitter?

I dont doubt what art has stated. He clearly has strong feelings about this. On the other hand, I read the stuff at computeraudiophile and noticed some things that stood out to me. Mainly his testing methods which used a Nirvana digital interconnect as well as a rca/bnc adapter. Robert Harley did some testing back in the mid 90's where he found that the direction of the interconnect used in the test would effect the results by several nano seconds. The worst case senario was 4.7ns.  (right on par with what computeraudiophile found with the Wadia.)
I dont know this Nirvana cable at all. It seems to be nothing more than a jazzed up coaxial. But I do know from my own experience that those adapters cause something bad to happen. Added jitter is what I would assume it to be.

Anyway, I ask because I basically am wondering the same thing Housteau is wondering.

I note from either this forum or headfi (dont remember which) that Steve Nugent (audioengr) also has strong feelings about the TI chip used in the wadia. He doesnt measure directly but makes the case that it has inherently high jitter based on listening comparisons to a different chip. Seems a likely enough case.

But I've also done comparisons. Shocking ones, actually. Since I have what is arguably one of the most accurate clocks in the world, the Esoteric G-0Rb which is accurate to 0.05 parts per Billion, as well as the familial DAC (D-03) which is by itself accurate to 0.5 ppm I have a pretty solid base with which to compare.
And what I have found is truly shocking. The Wadia transport fed into the D-03 is at least as good as my P-03 transport even with the master clock in the system when I use certain digital cables with the Wadia. In fact, it does come down to digital cables. Because with the right combination the Wadia actually sounds better.

So, again, I dont doubt the input of art and audioengr. But my ears (as well as others) tell me that its not the whole story. Perhaps there is something to the TI chip that reacts poorly with marginal or certain digital cable designs? Because, as much as I would like to think that the $30k invested in my P-03 transport and G-0Rb Clock was not unworthy, when it really comes down to it, I use the Wadia more often than not because it simply sound better. 
Go figure.

[TONEPUB]

Robert Harley said that the music ripped to a Sooloos sounded better than the original CD's too and as a very happy Sooloos owner (who reviewed the Sooloos a YEAR before TAS) I can say that's not the case.  I love the Sooloos for convenience, but it's not a high performance playback device.  With a good DAC, it's much better but not a replacement for a world class CD player.

Same with the Wadia.  It's an amazing little box for what it does.  With a good DAC it is surprisingly good.  We tested it with the Wadia 521DAC (about 7000 dollars) the PS Audio Digital link 3 (about 1000 dollars) and the Channel Islands DAC with external power supply. (about 750) There's no way it sounds BETTER than the original CD.  Sorry, used the Wadia with about a dozen DAC's now.

Even with uncompressed files, the Wadia dock and Wadia DAC was no match for the Wadia 581SE player I've got, but it was better than any CD players I've heard in the 3-4000 dollar range.  I think the key with the Wadia transport is that for a very minimal price, it's still a lot better than a stock iPod with analog outs. 

I hate to be overly critical of my competitor here, but they do have the tendency to always claim the newest toy they have in house is the greatest thing in the world.

[champ10]

While I would agree with Jeff about the major mags always getting a little bit too excited about the latest and greatest I'm not so quick to agree about the Wadia. I think it falls into a catagory that could diminish its atributes simply because it is so inexpensive.

There are several good reasons why it at least has the potential to be great. The fact that no error correction need be performed on the fly is one. The total lack of servo noise from a cd spinning transport is another.
I have what would easily be regarded as the most herculean transport mechanism on earth (Esoteric P-03) and while there is essentially no chance what-so-ever of a cd vibrating inside it still lacks the ability to center the data spiral on the stamped cd. And ALL cd's are off center. This servo noise in the power supply should not be discounted. It is, after all, the best reason to take any cd and re-record it onto CDR! Anyone who's seen an 47 Laboratory PiTracer in action knows just how bad cds are!

The Wadia eliminates these issues altogether, PLUS the incredibly expensive power supplies needed in a cd transport to overcome them. Remember, the power supply is nearly always the most expensive part of any high end gear.
The only real limitations of the Wadia is the USB/SPDIF chip in question and it's cheapo power supply.
Well, add a battery to the mix and fahgedaboutit!

But this is exactly why I brought up the influence of the digital cable. Heck, the one I'm using is worth 4 times the iTransport. And I wouldnt use any other one with it. It just isnt as good a total package.
But like I said, its not like I'm deciding between an iTransport and a killer cd player. I already HAVE a $45k+ cd rig. And yet I still like using my iPod more. And my sole reason for pursuing this hobby is musical truth, nothing else.

I'll be trying the iTransport out on my friends new Wadia 781i soon. We'll see where that goes.

[TONEPUB]

Good points.  And there are some new goodies from Wadia on the way as well.

I think for a first try at this, it's succeeded rather well.

Also, curious to see what you think of it on the Wadia 781, I have a 581 and it's
pretty darn good.  I'm using Pat's digital cable with excellent results.