AudioCircle

Industry Circles => GR Research => Topic started by: Danny Richie on 8 Jul 2010, 11:33 pm

Title: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Danny Richie on 8 Jul 2010, 11:33 pm
I am going to use this tread to document a crossover assembly. I'll cover some do's and don'ts and try to make it as easy as possible to follow.

In this example I am going to be assembling the crossovers for Guys V-2's. This pair, along with a bunch of other stuff is going to Vietnam.

I will update this as time permits and as work progresses on the build.

The first thing is to figure out the space available for the crossover. In this case the crossover is mounted on the back side of the speaker, in plain view, right below the open baffle coaxial driver.

(http://www.gr-research.com/mis/back%20side2.jpg)

(http://www.gr-research.com/mis/back%20side.jpg)

The space for the crossover leaves plenty of room for a crossover board that is 7.5" by 8.75". This gives plenty of room for layout without crowding.

More coming....
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: NeilT on 8 Jul 2010, 11:42 pm
Looks like I picked a good time to build a crossover.
Thanks Danny.  :D
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Bonk on 9 Jul 2010, 01:32 pm
Kewl .  :thumb:
I am ready to be schooled .  8)
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Danny Richie on 9 Jul 2010, 02:34 pm
Okay, once you have the space laid out, the next thing is to fit all the parts into that space.

Layout needs to be to where inductors are not facing the same direction. Ideally, if the smaller inductor that is up on its end were to roll, then it would not roll back and forth across one of the larger inductors. It would roll into or away from it. Then the further it is away the more it can be turned a different direction. 4 inches or so away and there is little interaction even if they are turned the same way. So different directions are good and distance is good.

It is also good to run all the caps in the same direction even though they are non-polar and work either way. The input and output terminations and such can differ and in some cases it can have some effect on the sound. So run them all in the same direction. Using the print direction works fine.

Twist each piece together so as to make one continuous wire. Don't loop one across the other to make the solder make the connection. Solder is not for making connections. It is for holding connections. So twist each together well, then run a line of solder across it to keep that connection from becoming loose or from not making good contact.

Where there is going to be a wire attached then you can let those connection stick up so that you have something to twist the wire to. You will also seal those connections with heat shrink so you will want to be able to slide heat shrink over the connection.

If just twisting two components together then there is no need to leave a connection sticking up that might short something out. Make one line out of it as if they shared the same wire.

Also, don't use connectors, screws, connection plates, or anything like that in the signal path. We want to keep it as pure and as uninterrupted as possible. No sense in using great wire then inserting a piece of tin or various alloy's into the path to create an insertion loss of some kind.

(http://www.gr-research.com/mis/v2netpic.jpg)
(http://www.gr-research.com/mis/v2netpic2.jpg)

More coming...
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: NeilT on 9 Jul 2010, 03:40 pm
Good stuff Danny.
Should the component leads be trimmed as short as possible?
or just use em as they come?

Neil
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Danny Richie on 9 Jul 2010, 04:06 pm
I usually need the length, but sometimes some of them get trimmed down.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Danny Richie on 9 Jul 2010, 04:10 pm
Okay, with the components laid out and connected, I then slide the pre-cut board under it.

Then I mark with a Sharpy all the spots for holes that I want to drill for zip ties.

When drilling the crossover boards I drill through both of them at the same time so that they are identical. So I drill the holes and clean up any rough edges.

You can then start attaching all the crossover parts. This one however is going to be exposed (seen) so the board is painted Black.

(http://www.gr-research.com/mis/v2netpic3.jpg)

Now it is ready for the next step...
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Danny Richie on 9 Jul 2010, 04:17 pm
Here is more on connecting the components.

Let the leads overlap each other and twist from both ends. I often use a couple of small pairs of needle noise pliers to made twisting easier.

(http://www.gr-research.com/mis/twist1.jpg)
(http://www.gr-research.com/mis/twist2.jpg)

Twisting another crossover together like the first one and having it match the pre-drilled holes is not easy. So I zip tie each component to the board so that they are in the right position then twist the ends together.

(http://www.gr-research.com/mis/twist3.jpg)
(http://www.gr-research.com/mis/twist4.jpg)
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Danny Richie on 9 Jul 2010, 04:23 pm
Pretty soon you have one that looks like this. All joints have now been soldered too.

(http://www.gr-research.com/mis/v2netpic4.jpg)

I also use clear Silicone under the heavy inductors to further hold their weight.

Then I zip tie the first cross to its board and trim the excess zip tie leads.

(http://www.gr-research.com/mis/v2netpic5.jpg)

Next I go around each component and hit it with a little hot glue to make sure nothing moves or vibrates around.

Then I start the wiring...  I will get those pics up later today if I can.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Hugh on 9 Jul 2010, 04:31 pm
What an invaluable educational illustration.

You are doing a great deed here Danny.

Thanks,
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: dvenardos on 9 Jul 2010, 04:55 pm
+1  :thumb:
What an invaluable educational illustration.

You are doing a great deed here Danny.

Thanks,
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: HT cOz on 9 Jul 2010, 05:09 pm
+1  :thumb:

+2 Sticky, Sticky, Sticky  :green:
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: gprro on 9 Jul 2010, 10:38 pm
What an invaluable educational illustration.

You are doing a great deed here Danny.

Thanks,

Absolutely, Thanks! Takes some of the stress out of doing a crossover for the first time. Ill use this when I do my x-mtm's and center to encore upgrade. A soldering lesson/instructions would be great too!
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: face on 9 Jul 2010, 11:46 pm
Here's another excellent tutorial. 

http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/coils.htm
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: newportcycle on 10 Jul 2010, 01:21 am
Danny, thanks so much for that post. This has got to make things pretty much "Jerry = Idiot" proof.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Danny Richie on 10 Jul 2010, 01:54 am
Okay, lets start wiring.

Positive to the woofer twisted on but not soldered yet.

(http://www.gr-research.com/mis/firstone.jpg)

Another important aspect of the solder is to seal the exposed Copper wire.

When we get to the negative wire we often need to catch the shunt leg of a component returning to ground. There is no real reason to cut little pieces of wire to make those jumpers. We can go from the driver straight back to the source with one piece of wire and just catch that inductor on the way with a little splice in between.

So I cut out a little piece where it will be twisted to the inductor. Just chop into it with the right sized stripper and pull a little in each direction to open up the area in the middle. If you need to open it up a little bigger then you can make two cuts with the stripper and use a sharp knife to slice out the piece in between. Just try not to scratch the Copper.

(http://www.gr-research.com/mis/splice.jpg)

Don't forget to slide some heat shrink on before attaching the next end or you won't be able to get it on.

Now it is soldered on. Note the white heat shrink waiting for cooling so it can be slide down over it.

(http://www.gr-research.com/mis/linking.jpg)

The continuous wire keeps a nice clean signal path. I like that much better than cut and paste of little pieces. It is faster and easier too.

The negative for the woofer is one continuos piece also. It catches that same point before heading on the source.

(http://www.gr-research.com/mis/neg.jpg)

Now I can heat up all the heat shrink to seal everything up.

(http://www.gr-research.com/mis/complete.jpg)

That looks nice and clean now.

(http://www.gr-research.com/mis/complete2.jpg)

And this network, as easy as it was to assemble, has more parts, and takes slightly longer to build than most of the other kits that I offer. Only the Super-V, and three way kits like the O-3, OB-5, OB-7, and OB-7 Plus are more complex.

So if you are looking at any of my A/V series kits, N1's, N1X,  N2X, N3, N3S, or the V-1, then all of them are even easier than this one.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: NeilT on 10 Jul 2010, 01:47 pm
Hey Danny,
Very very good and thanks for taking the time to do this.

What is the best way to do a foil inductor connection?

Neil
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Zerogravity on 10 Jul 2010, 02:19 pm
Yes, that was a big help and makes it much better to us newbies and instills more confidance with a first build. Also makes us truer to DIY as well as saving money.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Will2 on 10 Jul 2010, 02:50 pm
This is a great idea Danny - thanks. You might consider creating a sticky with your posts in it and put a link to the stocky on your web site.  I would have done a much better job with my crossovers if I'd had the benefit of this.

Cheers
Will
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Danny Richie on 10 Jul 2010, 07:30 pm
Okay, I just made this topic a sticky.  :thumb:
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Guy 13 on 11 Jul 2010, 09:48 am
Okay, I just made this topic a sticky.  :thumb:
H Danny.
My crossovers looks nice and I am glad to see that they are now ready to be shipped.
As you know already, I am now in Montreal, I took the first flight from Vietnam to Montreal Canada to see my sick 87 years old mother, but I arrived too late, she had pass away already, therefore now I have to organize the funural with my family.
I should be back in Vietnam middle of August to complete the assembly of my V2.
Thanks.
Guy 13.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Danny Richie on 11 Jul 2010, 01:23 pm
I am really sorry to hear that about your mother. My condolence's to you and your family.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Fatawan on 11 Jul 2010, 01:36 pm
  And this network, as easy as it was to assemble, has more parts, and takes slightly longer to build than most of the other kits that I offer. Only the Super-V, and three way kits like the O-3, OB-5, OB-7, and OB-7 Plus are more complex.

So if you are looking at any of my A/V series kits, N1's, N1X,  N2X, N3, N3S, or the V-1, then all of them are even easier than this one.

You forgot the hopelessly complex Anarchy kit crossover!
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Danny Richie on 11 Jul 2010, 02:23 pm
Quote
You forgot the hopelessly complex Anarchy kit crossover!

Oh, it is still not that bad. It only has four more total components than this one does. It is still just a connect the dots game.  :D  Besides when you split it up into two separate boards (one for the woofer and one for the tweeter) then each one is easier than this one. The bummer was that it required a network like that. There was just really no way around it.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: NeilT on 12 Jul 2010, 06:41 pm
Hi Danny,
Could you post a pic of a foil inductor connection?
Thanks,
Neil
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: aharami on 12 Jul 2010, 07:30 pm
Danny, where do you recommend installing the network inside the N3 cabinet?  All the way at the bottom, right above the brace H?
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: ebag4 on 12 Jul 2010, 07:33 pm
Danny, where do you recommend installing the network inside the N3 cabinet?  All the way at the bottom, right above the brace H?
I'm not Danny but I installed it on the brace behind the Neo3PDR. That way you only have to run one pair of wires up from the binding posts.

Best,
Ed
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Danny Richie on 12 Jul 2010, 07:39 pm
Quote
Could you post a pic of a foil inductor connection?

I'll do it.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: aharami on 12 Jul 2010, 08:13 pm
I'm not Danny but I installed it on the brace behind the Neo3PDR. That way you only have to run one pair of wires up from the binding posts.

Best,
Ed

i see, thanks!  so are they mounted vertically against the rear panel, or horizontally, on top of brace B?  Isnt brace B the ones with two semicircle cuts on each end?  So are the networks covering some of that cutout space, or are the networks small enough to fit in the 4.5" x 6.5" space between the semicircle cuts?
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: ebag4 on 12 Jul 2010, 08:20 pm
i see, thanks!  so are they mounted vertically against the rear panel, or horizontally, on top of brace B?  Isnt brace B the ones with two semicircle cuts on each end?  So are the networks covering some of that cutout space, or are the networks small enough to fit in the 4.5" x 6.5" space between the semicircle cuts?
Mine fit between the cutouts, but it is a bit tight.

Best,
Ed
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Danny Richie on 12 Jul 2010, 08:54 pm
Okay, I pulled an old inductor that had an inner lead torn off of it to use as an example.

First cut the lead down so that it is not very long and fold a V or U shape into it so that it will easily hold solder and so that it will allow a little folding that can be done while soldering the wire to it.

(http://www.gr-research.com/mis/Fready.jpg)

Then put the soldering gun into it and heat it up will feeding solder into it.

(http://www.gr-research.com/mis/Ftinned.jpg)

You'll also have to tin the wire.

(http://www.gr-research.com/mis/Ftinned2.jpg)

Then put the soldering gun onto the inductor and heat that solder up until it starts to flow then insert the wire so that it is making good contact with the foil.

(http://www.gr-research.com/mis/Fsoldered.jpg)

If you are real good then you can squeeze it with needle noise pliers while it is still hot and fold the foil over the wire to make a nice crimped connection too.

(http://www.gr-research.com/mis/Frealgood.jpg)

Then just slide your heat shrink down over it to seal it.

See, that was easy too.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: mms3 on 12 Jul 2010, 08:55 pm
i see, thanks!  so are they mounted vertically against the rear panel, or horizontally, on top of brace B?  Isnt brace B the ones with two semicircle cuts on each end?  So are the networks covering some of that cutout space, or are the networks small enough to fit in the 4.5" x 6.5" space between the semicircle cuts?

Keep in mind that if you're using NoRez, that will take up a couple inches as well.  So, it's more like 4.5" x 4.5".
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: NeilT on 13 Jul 2010, 02:34 pm
Thank you Danny for the foil inductor pictures and instuctions.
Good luck and hang in there.
Neil
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: NeilT on 27 Jul 2010, 02:13 am
Hi Danny,
See anything wrong with this layout?
Thanks
Neil




(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=33206)
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Danny Richie on 27 Jul 2010, 07:47 pm
Neil,

The main thing to keep in mind is inductor orientation. In this case, you're fine.

The second thing that I shoot for is lining everything up so that little to no wire is needed to connect everything. This is not critical but it helps make assembly easier.

Also keep in mind that you need to chop those inductor leads down short like in the pictures that I posted above.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: NeilT on 27 Jul 2010, 08:06 pm
Thank you Danny
Neil
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: dvenardos on 28 Jul 2010, 04:39 am
The AV-1RS was my first build and I was really tight on wire.

The second thing that I shoot for is lining everything up so that little to no wire is needed to connect everything. This is not critical but it helps make assembly easier.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: eclein on 28 Jul 2010, 10:44 pm
Danny-Great thread!!!!!! Thank you for the time you put in!! :thumb: :thumb:
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Savage on 12 Sep 2010, 09:56 am
If it wasn't for this thread, I don't think I would have ever bought my LS6 cabinets at the auction. Would it be possible to see a Crossover layout for these so I have an idea what I got myself into?

I was thinking that along with the kits, it would be nice if you supplied a suggested crossover layout. That way it not only would be easier and less intimidating for crossover virgins like me, but also to troubleshoot either initial problems or repairs down the pike. If most people followed the layout, it would make servicing these custom speakers easier if most of us followed convention. If they were posted online, I think more of us may be willing to give it a shot. Sometimes I look at the piles of components and think that's beyond my experience level, but as you so thoroughly described here, it's not that hard. Just a thought.

Do you need to use a low-temperature hot glue for gluing components? The heat doesn't harm them? I'm just afraid of soldering and hot gluing $75 capacitors. Also, I'll probably pick up a new soldering iron. Any suggestions for a good quality unit?

I am glad that the LS6 crossovers are hidden; my soldering isn't that good.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: mojave on 13 Sep 2010, 09:36 pm
Savage, Danny bought some LS-6 (http://www.proxibid.com/asp/LotDetail.asp?ahid=385&aid=31403&lid=8586327#topoflot) crossovers and bass management boards at the av123 auction. He will probably be including these in the build kits so you won't have to solder anything.

(http://www.proxibid.com/AuctionImages/385/31403/Detail/130.jpg)
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Danny Richie on 13 Sep 2010, 10:24 pm
If you want to build out the crossovers yourself don't worry. I'll walk you through it, show you pictures, and everything.

Hot glue doesn't hurt the caps either.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: bfr1992t on 13 Sep 2010, 10:30 pm
I am glad that the LS6 crossovers are hidden; my soldering isn't that good.

Practice on scrap materials!

I'd also suggest you pick up a eutectic solder. It melts and flows much more smoothly and IMO would be much better for a beginner so long as you're working with new clean components.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Guy 13 on 5 Nov 2010, 12:26 pm
If you want to build out the crossovers yourself don't worry. I'll walk you through it, show you pictures, and everything.

Hot glue doesn't hurt the caps either.
Hi Danny and all AC members.
I think it would encourage and motivate DIYfers if you would supply crossover kits with printed on the board (Wood, plastic or PCB) the shape of the components and even have some holes for the TieWraps and wires...
How about supplying a small tube of glue for customers overseas, not easy for us to find good products overhere.
As for me, I would buy the crossover kits unassembled and do the welding myself.
Guy 13
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: face on 5 Nov 2010, 05:59 pm
That would take the seller more time to prepare the kits and cost us more in the long run, not worth it IMO. 

Hot glue isn't available overseas?
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Guy 13 on 6 Nov 2010, 12:11 am
That would take the seller more time to prepare the kits and cost us more in the long run, not worth it IMO. 

Hot glue isn't available overseas?
Hi.
The first time or initialy it would take more time for the seller, but later on, it will save time for the buyer. Yes, it would cost a little more, because the initial design cost, but that extra would be spread over many kits.
Offering two options is always good, for example. cabinets flat pack and assembled units. I don't think I am the only one looking for some help in building kits.
Here in Vietnam, they have hot glue, but you have to run around the city to find it, there are no Home Depot here where you can find everything you need under one roof. On my next trip to METRO (German investment) a large super market where you can find, rice, motorbike, cooking oil, tools, soap, TV and more... I will look to see if they have any hot glue, who knows, I might be lucky.
Guy 13
AKA : The lucky man.
It's not because you don't need or want something, that everybody else don't needed it. Needs and requirements vary from person to person, thank God we are not all the same on this planet.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: kramertc on 17 Nov 2010, 02:56 pm
What is the recommended way to secure the crossover board inside the speaker cabinet?  In my case, this is the crossover for the N2X in a PE cabinet (the rectangular one).
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Danny Richie on 17 Nov 2010, 03:26 pm
I use screws. That way if you need to remove it then you can do so easily.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: jtwrace on 17 Nov 2010, 03:28 pm
I use screws. That way if you need to remove it then you can do so easily.

I used heavy duty 3M velcro (locking).  It works great. 

Is this ok Danny?
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: kramertc on 17 Nov 2010, 03:56 pm
I used heavy duty 3M velcro (locking).  It works great. 

Is this ok Danny?

What a good idea.  The brace of the PE cabinet splits the internal enclosure in half which forced me to have a small crossover board so I don't have a lot of finger room to do screws.

Danny?
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: corndog71 on 17 Nov 2010, 04:27 pm
You can always go external too.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: kramertc on 17 Nov 2010, 04:45 pm
You can always go external too.

Too complicated!  I'd have to hide the crossover somewhere since the N2X pair will be on stands or, gasp, build an enclosure for it.  Thanks for the suggestion, though... :green:
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: django11 on 18 Nov 2010, 10:34 pm
A soldering lesson/instructions would be great too!
The first two (http://tangentsoft.net/elec/movies/) tutorial movies here are great starters for anyone with no knowledge of soldering.  They got me started...
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: hesster on 21 Jan 2011, 01:30 am

Here is another idea.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=41679)
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: rockdrummer on 3 Oct 2011, 07:40 pm
I have studied this post so many times putting it together like a puzzle in my head, it's almost embarassing.  However, I am having so much fun!! 

There are small things attached to each cap in the pictures in the first post.  Not sure what they are.  I'm guessing a bypass?  Not sure where I picked that up.  I don't see them anywhere else in this post. 

Anyone know a good argument to convince my wife I need to order a V2 kit? :icon_twisted:

ben
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: WC on 3 Oct 2011, 07:56 pm
Well how will she feel about two speakers sticking out into the room by 3 feet.  :wink:
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: rockdrummer on 3 Oct 2011, 08:03 pm
I already have her used to that.  My current speakers are out that far, and I could move more.  I have been moving them a few inches every now and then to see if I am hearing an improved sound.  I have moved about 18 inches out in the last year.  If she notices, she doesn't say anything.  She is a wonderful singer and piano player, so she is pretty understanding about the placement.  Just not the payment. Ooh, bad joke.

Ben
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: kp93300 on 4 Oct 2011, 12:51 am

Anyone know a good argument to convince my wife I need to order a V2 kit? :icon_twisted:

ben
Hi Ben,
i completed the V2 about a month ago.
The speaker is very good with the vocals and piano . It is very realistic and the low note from piano is excellent.
Maybe bring your wife for an audition and somebody in this forum may be able to arrange that.Unfortunately, I am from malaysia !

regards

kp93300
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: allfortheloveofmusic on 9 Nov 2011, 04:55 am
Boy it sure would have been nice if some pictures like these were taken of the crossover boards for the Super V. I can see how these photos showed a more step by step approach, as well as mentioned little things like twisting the wires with two pairs of needle know pliers. Here these pictures clearly show where and how all the leads end up and the sequence of installing parts with the silicon and tie down.. Yes this looks easy, but from what I have seen for photos for the wiring of the crossover for the Super V has completely taken the wind out of my sail on that topic, nothing worth a darn. A simple step by step deal would be amazingly helpful to someone that has never done this before.
As far as putting the rest together I'll probably need to seek out more help as well. DIY, that really mean do it yourself, everything. The orientation of the schematic likely perfectly aligns with a completed board, thus completely unraveling all the mysteries that lie ahead of a novice.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Danny Richie on 9 Nov 2011, 03:58 pm
This post was made in a Super-V build thread back in September:

See pics.  :green:

Yes, I mirrored the crossovers.

(http://www.gr-research.com/mis/svcrossoverpic3.jpg)

And a close up of one after adding the wiring.

(http://www.gr-research.com/mis/svcrossoverpic1.jpg)

And yes, that big Brown square thing is a Jupiter cap.

(http://www.gr-research.com/mis/svcrossoverpic2.jpg)
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Danny Richie on 9 Nov 2011, 04:21 pm
While the Super-V is clearly not a beginner level kit, it has been successfully built by everyone that has tackled it. Not only do you have my full support but the help of many other builders here in the GR Research circle.

There are people available like Sean (the Skiing Ninja) that offer crossover assembly services. I even built out the crossovers for one customer too.

There are also several people that can build out cabinets for these speakers as well. It can be as easy as mounting the crossover and plugging it all in.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: gijogeo on 22 Nov 2011, 02:43 am
This thread is a sticky and I missed it before putting together my XO for my N2X. :duh:
Really could have done a better job had I seen this earlier. Anyways thanks for the detailed explanation Danny. Sure is a lifesaver for total noobs like me.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: synergy1 on 22 Nov 2011, 06:44 pm
If you are putting together a crossover for boxes built by Jon Parkhurst for the Super V and have upgraded to the Jupiter Cap make sure your board material is no thicker than 1/4" otherwise the Jupiter cap will hit and the beautiful cover Jon built will now sit flat but sit up on the cap. No
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: brandon w on 20 Jan 2012, 05:15 pm
Thank you for this thread danny.  it has definitely helped me to get my crossovers done.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Danny Richie on 20 Jan 2012, 05:56 pm
Thank you for this thread danny.  it has definitely helped me to get my crossovers done.

No problem, and welcome to AC.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: djkest on 21 Feb 2012, 05:34 am
I was trying to utilize some of the Richie method when assembling this crossover. This was a "prototype", I have since shrunk the board a little and V2 is underway.

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-CEzSJHRlDWE/T0CHj7o97tI/AAAAAAAAB-U/zpypaDtIaAQ/s640/2012-02-18%252007.12.22.jpg)
Missing the woofer output terminals, but you get the idea. Input on the top, outputs on the bottom.  All point to point except I will need a jumper for the negatives.

I noticed that I overtightened a couple zip ties, and put light indentations on one of the Solen Fast Caps... is that going to be a problem? Sure hope not. :/  The tweeter capacitor is getting replaced with a Clarity Cap PX...


(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-UN4sfOv4hUk/T0CHkpKgu5I/AAAAAAAAB-c/ReK22BLRWE8/s640/2012-02-18%252007.12.41.jpg)
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: S Clark on 21 Feb 2012, 05:40 am
If this is a V2 crossover, I'm curious why you replaced the stock cap with a Solen? I'd think that would be a step backwards.  :scratch:
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: djkest on 21 Feb 2012, 05:44 am
If this is a V2 crossover, I'm curious why you replaced the stock cap with a Solen? I'd think that would be a step backwards.  :scratch:

It's not a GR product. I can remove it if it's inappropriate.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: S Clark on 21 Feb 2012, 05:48 am
Ahh, I see.  There is a big gap between the Clarity and Dayton(oops, I meant Solen).  Even if it's just in a bypass section of the network, you may still think about moving up a step at a later time.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: djkest on 21 Feb 2012, 03:42 pm
Ahh, I see.  There is a big gap between the Clarity and Dayton.  Even if it's just in a bypass section of the network, you may still think about moving up a step at a later time.
There is no Dayton anything in this crossover. Those are 400V Solen Fastcaps. Plus the Clarity Cap will be inline with the tweeter as opposed to going to ground as in the woofer circuit. But I digress.

Still wondering about: "I noticed that I overtightened a couple zip ties, and put light indentations on one of the Solen Fast Caps... is that going to be a problem? Sure hope not. :/  " I guess I'll bust out the multimeter when I get home and check the values.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Danny Richie on 21 Feb 2012, 04:11 pm
I have no problem with you posting pics of your crossover here. This is an informative thread and things like this adds further information.

One thing that will degrade the sound is the insertion of the little terminals to accept slip on connectors. There is no reason to break the pathway and insert a piece of Tin or Aluminum. Just getting those out of the path will be a notable improvement.

Squeezing the cap will effect the value. Even holding it in your hand can do that as well. The heat and pressure from your hand can sway the value one way or another. I can watch that on my measuring system pretty easily. Don't fret too much though. It will likely have only moved its value 1/2 of a % or less. I'd be surprised if it shifted 1%. It is already +/-5% tolerance so there is no telling where it really is to begin with.

Another thing to keep in mind is the quality of the iron core slug and its effect. It looks pretty small so that would be a concern to me. I wouldn't use any iron core inductor on anything covering any mid-range areas. 200Hz or less is fine though. Then again the rest of the parts are not exactly top notch either. So it just depends on the speaker and what it will be used for. These my be used in a public address speaker for all I know and in that case the quality of the parts are fine.

If you are willing to spend Clarity Cap money on the tweeter circuit then you might also consider some Sonicaps. It is a better quality cap and I send them out in matched pairs at no additional cost.

Your board layout looks fine, BTW.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: djkest on 21 Feb 2012, 05:07 pm
I have no problem with you posting pics of your crossover here. This is an informative thread and things like this adds further information.

One thing that will degrade the sound is the insertion of the little terminals to accept slip on connectors. There is no reason to break the pathway and insert a piece of Tin or Aluminum. Just getting those out of the path will be a notable improvement.

Squeezing the cap will effect the value. Even holding it in your hand can do that as well. The heat and pressure from your hand can sway the value one way or another. I can watch that on my measuring system pretty easily. Don't fret too much though. It will likely have only moved its value 1/2 of a % or less. I'd be surprised if it shifted 1%. It is already +/-5% tolerance so there is no telling where it really is to begin with.

Another thing to keep in mind is the quality of the iron core slug and its effect. It looks pretty small so that would be a concern to me. I wouldn't use any iron core inductor on anything covering any mid-range areas. 200Hz or less is fine though. Then again the rest of the parts are not exactly top notch either. So it just depends on the speaker and what it will be used for. These my be used in a public address speaker for all I know and in that case the quality of the parts are fine.

If you are willing to spend Clarity Cap money on the tweeter circuit then you might also consider some Sonicaps. It is a better quality cap and I send them out in matched pairs at no additional cost.

Your board layout looks fine, BTW.
Thanks for your reply and taking a look. Not a PA speaker. :) I talked to them about upgrading the steel laminate core Inductor to an air-core, and they said to match the DCR would require something like a 12 gauge air-core. Then again, the difference between 0.3 ohms and 0.6 ohms is probably less than I think. It's in-line with a $60 woofer.

The inductors are decent, they are hand-wound with "five nines" copper, so probably better than the 96% copper Jantzen air cores that are so popular. I upgraded to lynk resistors as well over sandcast.

The little metal clips I am actually going to use as solder points- going to solder the leads to one point and the stranded wire to the other. I am not going to use quick disconnects on the board, but I do use to connect to driver tabs, since I'm wary of soldering to my drivers.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Danny Richie on 21 Feb 2012, 05:25 pm
The output differences from 16 gauge to 14 gauge measures about 1/10th of a db in output. Going from 14 gauge to 12 gauge also changes output by about 1/10th of a db.

Sometimes the difference in the resistance can be used to reduce bass output.

Differences are subtle between gauges sometimes. Differences in smearing caused by an iron core slug is not so subtle.

The rest of the inductors are fine.

I wouldn't even use those terminals as a soldering point. The solder is not a great conductor either. Solder is mostly Tin and Led. It should really be welding the connection not making the connection. So don't think of it as the conductor but a binder that keeps it from coming apart.

I wouldn't add connectors to the drivers either. No worries. Just place the wire flat on the terminal and solder it on. The fact that you have a lot of stripped wire touching the terminal is the connection. The solder is just holding it there.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: srb on 21 Feb 2012, 05:27 pm
I am not going to use quick disconnects on the board, but I do use to connect to driver tabs, since I'm wary of soldering to my drivers.

If you use a good heatsink like this one with riveted soft copper jaws to prevent heat from traveling down the voice coil lead, you can confidently solder speaker terminals.
 
Steve
 
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=58325)
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Danny Richie on 21 Feb 2012, 05:29 pm

If you use a good heatsink like this one with riveted soft copper jaws to prevent heat from traveling down the voice coil lead, you can confidently solder speaker terminals.
 
Steve
 
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=58325)

Nice tip Steve.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: rockdrummer on 21 Feb 2012, 06:23 pm
I've done some research on soldering.  But now you have me worried about soldering OFC to drivers.  Do I need a heatsink?  I watched some basic tutorials on soldering, but either missed or didn't even see anything mentioning damaging voice coils with excessive heat.

I am building av-1 mini monitors.

Ben
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Danny Richie on 21 Feb 2012, 06:31 pm
I've done some research on soldering.  But now you have me worried about soldering OFC to drivers.  Do I need a heatsink?  I watched some basic tutorials on soldering, but either missed or didn't even see anything mentioning damaging voice coils with excessive heat.

I am building av-1 mini monitors.

Ben

If you are quick on and off the drivers terminals then there is no problem. I use a really hot gun and can get it taken care of in about two to three seconds. Just don't use a low powered gun on it holding it on there for a long time trying to melt the solder. That is when you are putting a lot of heat into the terminals.

The tweeter is the most sensitive to heat time. It won't hurt the voice coil as fast as it will melt the plastic tabs that hold the terminals. They will melt off before you overheat any voice coils.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: srb on 21 Feb 2012, 06:35 pm
I've done some research on soldering.  But now you have me worried about soldering OFC to drivers.  Do I need a heatsink?  I watched some basic tutorials on soldering, but either missed or didn't even see anything mentioning damaging voice coils with excessive heat.

Too many moons ago, my very first job was installing car stereos, and I soldered wires to the speakers without a heatsink.  But the use of a heatsink is just always a good simple safety measure.
 
Too much heat can ruin anything.  And if the voice coil tinsel leads are soldered to a terminal block, obviously too much heat applied to the same terminal block to solder the crossover wires could inadvertantly desolder them as well.
 
Steve
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: rockdrummer on 21 Feb 2012, 06:59 pm
Okay, I'm going full monte while displaying mostly ignorance. 
I was going to get a cheap iron from menards.  Rated at 30 watts, I think. 

I don't know how often I will use this tool.  I was informed to look for between 15 and 30 watts.  I know $5 is cheap.  So going for more heat sounds like the right thing to do.  They have guns rated up to 100 watts.  Should I use that instead?  How hot should I go?

Ben 
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: srb on 21 Feb 2012, 07:18 pm
30 watts should be fine.  I have a 40W iron that with proper technique I can solder RCA plugs and even speaker binding posts.  Make a good mechanical connection of the wire to the terminal, apply some solder to the tip so that you get good heat contact applied to the mechanical junction and feed the solder and let it flow into the heated junction, not into the soldering iron tip.
 
It helps to make a few practice joints, whether it's wire to terminal or even just wire to wire.
 
Steve
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Danny Richie on 21 Feb 2012, 07:23 pm
My favorite: http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00927320000P?blockNo=1&blockType=G1&prdNo=1&i_cntr=1329852043137
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: rockdrummer on 21 Feb 2012, 08:28 pm
Thank you gentlemen.  Much appreciated.

Ben
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: face on 22 Feb 2012, 12:35 am
An adjustable temperature iron is the way to go.  http://www.amazon.com/Weller-WES51-Analog-Soldering-Station/dp/B000BRC2XU/ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1329870787&sr=1-1 (http://www.amazon.com/Weller-WES51-Analog-Soldering-Station/dp/B000BRC2XU/ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1329870787&sr=1-1) 

Anything from small wire leads to binding posts aren't a problem. 
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Æ on 22 Feb 2012, 12:49 am
An adjustable temperature iron is the way to go.  http://www.amazon.com/Weller-WES51-Analog-Soldering-Station/dp/B000BRC2XU/ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1329870787&sr=1-1 (http://www.amazon.com/Weller-WES51-Analog-Soldering-Station/dp/B000BRC2XU/ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1329870787&sr=1-1) 

Anything from small wire leads to binding posts aren't a problem.

That is a good idea.
But I actually prefer a very hot iron, the hotter the better when it comes to soldering tiny stuff. It allows me to do it quickly. I use a very sharp tip, touching with the point only and using very skinny solder.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: djkest on 22 Feb 2012, 09:49 pm
So I went out last night and bought a capacitance measuring multimeter since mine bit the dust.

I checked my "indented" capacitors from my overzealous zip-tie tightening. Turns out they are all well within spec so I don't think that will be a problem. They are 5% caps and measuring about 1% high.

Quote
Don't fret too much though. It will likely have only moved its value 1/2 of a % or less. I'd be surprised if it shifted 1%. It is already +/-5% tolerance so there is no telling where it really is to begin with.
Danny was right.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Jonathon Janusz on 2 Apr 2012, 01:10 am
Thought this would be the right thread to ask this question regarding crossover assembly.

A while back in another thread (top-shelf mini monitors?), there was discussion regarding using binding posts as nothing more than "clamps" to connect bare speaker wire to the input wire leads of a completed crossover, making a wire-to-wire mechanical connection with nothing in between, this being to try and get as close to "a straight wire from amp to crossover" as possible. 

Similarly, the way Danny has described his use of solder as basically a "glue" to hold what is otherwise a bare twisted wire-to-wire connection between crossover components sounds to me like a similar tack to the same ends.

Now, my question is whether or not one could use the same mechanical clamping situation as the binding post description above when connecting individual crossover components to eliminate the soldering, make component changes (for tinkering) easier, and still not hinder the final sound quality?  I know that adding "ring clips" to the ends of the component leads would be a step in the wrong direction, but how about if one just did a little work with some jewelers' pliers and built/wound rings from the ends of the component lead wires directly.  Then, maybe use a brass screw and a pair of washers to sandwich the end "ring" on one component to the next, tightening down to clamp  the two mechanically in contact with each other?  Wire splices could be done similarly as Danny has outlined, just strip out a section of wire insulation as needed, twist a loop into the exposed wire, and tighten down into a screw connector just as before.

I know it would add a small bag of extra hardware, and some extra time/labor in hand working the components, but I can see a few benefits as outlined above (mainly making component swaps for those who like to tinker with caps and such a breeze).  I got the idea stuck in my head after looking at the sterling (high-end) crossover builds from Hawthorne Audio.  I'm not necessarily sold on adding the brass ring clips as they do as being a good idea considering the high quality of components being used, but maybe by keeping things even simpler. . .?
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: rockdrummer on 10 Apr 2012, 03:29 am
One minor question to add.  In the pictures on the first page of this thread, the joints are soldered before the OFC wire is attached.  I haven't started wiring yet, but I have twisted all parts together.  Should i wait to solder until after the rest of the wiring is done and solder all at once?  Or can I solder everything on the crossover, then solder the OFC joints a second time after I actually attach the OFC? 

Ben
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Danny Richie on 10 Apr 2012, 01:17 pm
One minor question to add.  In the pictures on the first page of this thread, the joints are soldered before the OFC wire is attached.  I haven't started wiring yet, but I have twisted all parts together.  Should i wait to solder until after the rest of the wiring is done and solder all at once?  Or can I solder everything on the crossover, then solder the OFC joints a second time after I actually attach the OFC? 

Ben

Either way.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: wushuliu on 20 Apr 2012, 07:31 am
FYI - Madisound has Erse foil inductors on sale at really good prices. I have a feeling Erse may be on the way out? (just check their website stock - and it's been that a way for a little while now). I have done some inductor comparisons the past few days and do find foil to be the cleanest and most neutral. I also swear that there is much improved detail and transient attack when used on the woofer. Stellar dynamics. I am almost certain it's due to the foil inductor. Barring foil, Meniscus inductors are rated as '5-9s' 99.999% copper, the highest purity I have seen rated for any inductor so far - and they sound clean and warm and are very affordable alternative to the Solen/Erse Perfect Lays.

Avoid Jantzen, they add false detail and crud. In the shunt position they are passable.

Sonicaps remind me of Claritycap MR, at almost 1/5th the price! Character-less cap.

My .02
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: wushuliu on 20 Apr 2012, 07:37 am
Either way.

Btw, Danny do inductors 'burn-in?'
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Danny Richie on 20 Apr 2012, 03:21 pm
Btw, Danny do inductors 'burn-in?'

Yes, but the audible difference is very subtle. Most of the burn in with wires and components has to do with the dielectric material and in the case of the inductors there is little involved.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: daveforshee on 5 May 2012, 02:40 am


When we get to the negative wire we often need to catch the shunt leg of a component returning to ground. There is no real reason to cut little pieces of wire to make those jumpers. We can go from the driver straight back to the source with one piece of wire and just catch that inductor on the way with a little splice in between.


I assembled my first A/V-1 crossover using scenario A, because I assumed it is "bad" to attach the leads of the resistor and the inductor before connecting to the OFC wire (scenario B).  The diagram from Danny shows separate wires meeting at the post on the cup.  For cleanliness, can you just use one wire like I did in scenario A, or is it necessary to use 2 separate wires (one from the inductor and one from the resistor)?  Thanks for your help!
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=62300)
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Danny Richie on 7 May 2012, 01:24 am
The way I wire it is like scenario B, but it can be done either way.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: daveforshee on 7 May 2012, 04:18 am
Thanks for the clarification. :D
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: jcris on 26 Jul 2012, 03:42 pm
It seems that inductive coupling is not given enough attention in many crossover networks.
I've pasted a thread from  the Bottlehead forums that you may find useful http://www.bottlehead.com/smf/index.php/topic,3127.15.html (http://www.bottlehead.com/smf/index.php/topic,3127.15.html) As you may know Paul Joppa is their designer and very knowledgeable. Also this  may help http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/coils.htm (http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/coils.htm) .
This is all in the interest of learning more about this great hobby.
regards,
John
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Ron on 2 Aug 2012, 03:04 pm
  A fellow Audio Circle member recently asked me to construct single board crossovers for a pair of N3 TL towers that he is building in lieu of separate low and high pass filter boards. The boards were cut from scrap pieces of 1/4" thick Pergo flooring that Ihad in my shop and are 4-1/2" wide x 9-3/4"long. The parts are secured to the board with hot glue and plastic wire ties. Also, each board is secured to the interior cabinet walls with six(6) No. 8 x 1" long Hex Head sheet metal screws and 1/4" thick vinyl bumpers between the board and the cabinet wall. The following picture shows how it looks:


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=65870)
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Captainhemo on 8 Aug 2012, 07:34 pm
Ron did a great job of these for me.  I'd highly reccomend him  to anyone not wanting to build their own cross overs for  whatever reason.
Thanks Ron  :thumb:
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Ron on 25 Aug 2012, 12:08 pm
  Attached are pictures of the crossovers I just completed for a pair of GR Research A/V-1RS surround
speakers. The boards were constructed from scrap pieces of Pergo laminated flooring and were cut to 9" long x 2" wide x 1/4" thick. Parts are secured to the boards with hot melt glue and plastic wire ties.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=66775)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=66776)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=66777)
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Captainhemo on 26 Aug 2012, 04:17 pm
Nice job again Ron.

I have a question  (I'm going to post it in my build thread as well) .
How often are crossover compnents prone to failure ?   I'm  just curious because if I glue my front panels on,   I will have no access to my cross overs.   What does everyone do  with regards to   accessing the crossover in a tower speaker ?

-jay
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Ron on 26 Aug 2012, 08:58 pm
  The  components parts used in your crossover are high voltage, high quality and rarely, if ever, fail. If you locate the crossover on the back panel behind the lower woofer all you have to do is remove the woofer for access to it.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Captainhemo on 26 Aug 2012, 10:48 pm
  The  components parts used in your crossover are high voltage, high quality and rarely, if ever, fail. If you locate the crossover on the back panel behind the lower woofer all you have to do is remove the woofer for access to it.
Remember, these are front vented .... hence   the C/o would be  between  brace D and F on the rear wall  so   I don't think I could get to it through the woofer hole
I could maybe fit it above brace  D on the rear wall but Danny suggested I put it below D and above F
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Danny Richie on 30 Aug 2012, 04:41 pm
Remember, these are front vented .... hence   the C/o would be  between  brace D and F on the rear wall  so   I don't think I could get to it through the woofer hole
I could maybe fit it above brace  D on the rear wall but Danny suggested I put it below D and above F

I always build it so that it can slide through the woofer hole and mount on the rear wall right behind the lower woofer.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Captainhemo on 30 Aug 2012, 11:04 pm
I always build it so that it can slide through the woofer hole and mount on the rear wall right behind the lower woofer.

The crossovers were just a little too big to fit there so  I was left  with  putting them    on the rear wall between D and F.  There  is no way  too ever get too them  via the bottom woofer hole  so  I  made an access panel on the rear wall.  It's just big enough to  hold the crossovers and   pout the  electra tubes    right below the c/o's.   Not   exactly as I 'd planned it but I wasn't going to bury   the c/o's with no way to get to them.  Pics coming in my build thread.

-jay
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: PDR on 29 Nov 2012, 10:58 pm
I have a question for Danny....or anyone that knows....about the X-over assembly
for the Super V.

I've seen this picture of the X-over:

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=71572)

Can I tighten the construction up?...If so whats the closet the pieces can
Be?.....I imagine the caps and resistors can be side by side but
what about the Coils (dont know what you call them). I know they
have to be orientated the way they are....but how close can they be
to each other?

Thanks
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Danny Richie on 29 Nov 2012, 11:04 pm
I have a question for Danny....or anyone that knows....about the X-over assembly
for the Super V.

I've seen this picture of the X-over:

Can I tighten the construction up?...If so whats the closet the pieces can
Be?.....I imagine the caps and resistors can be side by side but
what about the Coils (dont know what you call them). I know they
have to be orientated the way they are....but how close can they be
to each other?

Thanks

The reasons that I had it laid out that way was to keep the coils separated further, and of coarse I had the space. If it is tightened up one must be more careful in keeping orientations turned so that there will be no interference patterns.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: stevenkelby on 30 Nov 2012, 06:29 am
Here's a pic of mine if it helps (no side panels on the speakers btw):

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=71595)

I covered the kit alumiloy wire in black shrink so it looks neater in the speakers

Danny, could it be built like that but with all parts touching each other, squashed together?

I have this old pic about spacing/laying out coils too, hope it helps Perry:

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=71596)

From here:

http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/coils.htm

Steve.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Guy 13 on 30 Nov 2012, 06:46 am
That would take the seller more time to prepare the kits and cost us more in the long run, not worth it IMO. 

Hot glue isn't available overseas?

Hi face all Audio Circle members.
More time for the seller to prepare the kits
and more money in his pockets,
because he would be able to ask more money for the partially assembled kits.
Some people like to buy everything they need from one source, one order one payment, one shipping, etc..
For someone that have no soldering and mechanical skills
(Yes, there are a few of those)
if the kit cost more, it might be a saving for them,
because instead of overheating components,
re-wired incorrectly wired components in the first place, etc...
They would have a plug and play unit.
On a long term, you will save money and frustrations.
Please don't think every DIYer can do what you can do.
We are not all the same and that's good.
Yes, hot glue is (Now) available in Vietnam.
It was not the case 25 years ago.

Guy 13
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Trismos on 3 Dec 2012, 02:05 pm
"Cold Heat" soldering gun. Anyone try one of these? http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6151688/ns/technology_and_science-tech_and_gadgets/t/cold-heat-soldering-iron-runs-hot-cold/#.ULyuxOTuWTQ

I have one something like Danny shows, one step down perhaps - http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00954046000P

But I see the Cold Heat on t.v. now and again and I read the review above.

I just received my V-1 cross-over parts and will spend the winter building this thing. Expect some dumb questions!
(Like: why are there so many damn parts for a coax and why in the schematic do there appear to be 4 leads? There's the extra + and - leads in the middle of the schematic.)
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Danny Richie on 3 Dec 2012, 02:11 pm
I tried one of those cold heat soldering guns once. It sucked. It was like soldering with a soldering gun with a broken tip.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: stevenkelby on 3 Dec 2012, 02:27 pm
Yep those cold heat ones suck . I use a good old Hako 936 and love it but the best I've ever used is a Metcal MX-5000.

why in the schematic do there appear to be 4 leads? There's the extra + and - leads in the middle of the schematic.)


The + leads all come from the same place, as do the -.

For example, in my pic a few posts up you can see the thick black wires coming up out of a hole in the board near the bottom of the pic. The + wire then goes to the left and gets soldered to the Erse cap, the Mills resistor and the big inductor, one solder joint for all those wires. You can see in the schematic that they all need to be connected together.

Hope that helps :)

Steve.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Trismos on 3 Dec 2012, 02:41 pm
Yep those cold heat ones suck . I use a good old Hako 936 and love it but the best I've ever used is a Metcal MX-5000.

The + leads all come from the same place, as do the -.

For example, in my pic a few posts up you can see the thick black wires coming up out of a hole in the board near the bottom of the pic. The + wire then goes to the left and gets soldered to the Erse cap, the Mills resistor and the big inductor, one solder joint for all those wires. You can see in the schematic that they all need to be connected together.

Hope that helps :)

Steve.

Thx Steve .... You appear to have an extra cap at the Jupiter cap?
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: stevenkelby on 3 Dec 2012, 02:45 pm
No worries, yes it's a small sonicap platinum, also a small sonicap in parallel with the big sonicap on the right.

Not needed but I already had them here so thought I'd use them, shouldn't do any harm. I'll remove them after a few hundred hours of play just to see how they affected the sound and put them back if I prefer them in :)
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Trismos on 4 Dec 2012, 01:33 am
This post was made in a Super-V build thread back in September:


(http://www.gr-research.com/mis/svcrossoverpic2.jpg)

From this pic that Danny posted and because I am somewhat electrically illiterate, I had a difficult time trying to picture what the schematic that comes with the cross-overs shows verses this picture.




In the schematic, the line of {+ > capacitor >  Resistor >  coil to -} is different than in the picture. I see {+ > resistor > coil > cap > -}. This doesn't matter?
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: stevenkelby on 4 Dec 2012, 01:39 am
In the schematic, the line of {+ >  capacitor >  Lynk Resistor >  coil to -} is different than in the picture. I see {+ > resistor > coil > cap > -}. This doesn't matter?

I don't want to answer for Danny but do want to help if I can as I know it's tricky for a first timer!

I noticed that too and assembled it according to the schematic, Danny said that was fine so I can only assume it doesn't matter either way, or that Danny changed the schematic at some point and we have the latest version.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Jonathon Janusz on 4 Dec 2012, 05:06 am
Trismos and Steven:

I'm sure Danny would be glad to help answer these questions as needed, but I would humbly suggest removing the photo of the crossover schematic and the references to specific part values within it from the forum posts.  Someone else did this mistakenly once before a while back. . . Remember, folks pay Danny good money for this info (not to mention competitors wanting to check things out for their own purposes).  If it is posted freely on the Internet, it makes things tougher for Danny to put food on the table.

Danny, please feel free to edit/delete this post as needed to put the thread back on track.  I would have just reported the post, but I didn't see a button on the forum page to do it.

Good night, all!
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: stevenkelby on 4 Dec 2012, 05:20 am
Oh yes you're right, sorry I didn't think again, it was me that posted the schematic here a while back! I deleted it then and would suggest Trismos delete that schematic from his post too.

Danny did post that pic of the crossover himself and other people have posted pics of theirs so I assume it's ok, you can't make out all the component values or exactly how it's wired up.

Steve.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Trismos on 4 Dec 2012, 01:52 pm
Schematic and reference to values deleted.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Danny Richie on 4 Dec 2012, 03:59 pm
I don't mind the pics of the crossovers that show no values, but do not post schematics please.

There are two LCR networks in this crossover. One is actually an impedance compensation network at the front of the network. The other is a notch filter for the tweeters response. In both cases the inductor, cap, and resistor can be in any order and it will not matter. So LCR, LRC, RLC, RCL, CLR, or CRL.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: demarco on 11 Apr 2013, 08:35 pm
Hey Danny, or anyone who can help.

I've read this post a few times in regards to another crossover I'm building (my first crossover). I understand you guys shouldn't post the schematic (otherwise I could probably answer this question on my own), but I wanted to ask if that pink wire on the bottom right (http://www.gr-research.com/mis/complete.jpg) is a positive wire which is hooked up to the binding posts. If not, which wire is meant for the binding post (positive and negative). This will help me understand crossovers a bit more.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Danny Richie on 11 Apr 2013, 08:53 pm
Hey Danny, or anyone who can help.

I've read this post a few times in regards to another crossover I'm building (my first crossover). I understand you guys shouldn't post the schematic (otherwise I could probably answer this question on my own), but I wanted to ask if that pink wire on the bottom right (http://www.gr-research.com/mis/complete.jpg) is a positive wire which is hooked up to the binding posts. If not, which wire is meant for the binding post (positive and negative). This will help me understand crossovers a bit more.

Welcome to AC.

The Red and White pair on the bottom right are inputs. So they would go to the binding posts, or in the case of this speaker it would go to the tube connectors.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: demarco on 11 Apr 2013, 09:28 pm
Perfect! thanks for letting me know!
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: gab on 22 Jan 2015, 08:54 pm

I have this old pic about spacing/laying out coils too, hope it helps Perry:

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=71596)

From here:

http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/coils.htm

Steve.

Danny - could you remark on this layout for me? I'm trying to reuse a nice box I have laying around to keep from building a new one (for my center channel external crossover). Trying to follow #7 from the troelsrgravesen link above. Thanks!

gab

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=113408)
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Danny Richie on 22 Jan 2015, 10:22 pm
Are the brown paper cylinders coils as well? 
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: gab on 22 Jan 2015, 10:26 pm
Are the brown paper cylinders coils as well?

yes - just wrapped around the coils during shipping from Sonicraft. Haven't removed them yet.

EDIT - I just measured the inductance values with my LCR meter and didn't see any mutual inductance coupling issues as laid out above. Same measurement as standalone inductor measurement. I also couldn't really get them to interact very much at all no matter which way they were placed. Maybe I am doing something wrong?

gab
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Danny Richie on 22 Jan 2015, 10:49 pm
Okay, the three wrapped in paper and the foil one on the bottom right is going to be just like illustration number 5.

Measuring the inductance is not going to tell you anything. The inductance values won't change.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: gab on 22 Jan 2015, 11:35 pm
Okay, the three wrapped in paper and the foil one on the bottom right is going to be just like illustration number 5.

Measuring the inductance is not going to tell you anything. The inductance values won't change.

Then I am confused by the trolsen do's and don'ts illustration. I see that this crossover from Skiing Ninja looks like a configuration "7" to me, not a "5"


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=113415)

For example, the 2 coils mounted closely together show the one laying flat has the air gap pointing in an up/down arrangement and the one adjacent to it has the air gap pointing in an east/west arrangement as opposed to the air gap pointing directly towards the flat inductor. That to my eyes is a illustration "7" not a "5". BTW - I am presuming that Skiing Ninja has oriented the coils properly.

In my layout it may be hard to see but the 3 inductors laying flat have the air gap pointing in a up/down position and the four foil inductors (in the cardboard tubes and without) standing upright on the MDF board have the air gap pointing in either a east/west or north/south arrangement versus the air gap pointing directly towards its adjacent flat inductor. To my eyes, I have done the same thing as Skiing Ninja did and it appears to be a illustration number 7 not an illustration number 5.

What am I not getting?

Regarding my LCR meter measurements not being reflective of inductor coupling, do you know what measurement equipment Troels may have used in making the coupling measurements as shown here:

http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/coils.htm

Network analyzer versus an LCR meter? Guess I need to start reading up on this stuff (like maybe here: http://cp.literature.agilent.com/litweb/pdf/5967-5377E.pdf)

gab


Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Danny Richie on 23 Jan 2015, 12:27 am
Quote
What am I not getting?

Sean's placement is just like number 7. Yours are too if you take away the two foil inductors at the bottom. But if you just look at the foil inductors only then they are just like number 5 in their orientation towards each other.

And the way to measure them is to pass a signal from one to the other. In other words read the coupling with acoustic output of a driver connected to a coil that is near another coil that is actually getting the signal.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: gab on 23 Jan 2015, 04:40 am
Sean's placement is just like number 7. Yours are too if you take away the two foil inductors at the bottom. But if you just look at the foil inductors only then they are just like number 5 in their orientation towards each other.

And the way to measure them is to pass a signal from one to the other. In other words read the coupling with acoustic output of a driver connected to a coil that is near another coil that is actually getting the signal.

Thanks Danny. I get it now. I'm going to work out a new layout tomorrow and run it by you. I'm going to still try to re-use that box (which is looking less promising, but who knows). Regardless, I learned a lot today! :thumb:
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Captainhemo on 26 Jun 2016, 05:11 pm
I'm finally taking the plunge and building some networks  myself.
Just a quick question, is it better to split the negative leg say at the input connector before picking up components from both a high pass and low pass filter (so both  filtes basically have their own neg lead going back to the input), or can  all components going to ground  connect at one spot then the   neg lead split into two parts and sent to each  driver ?

jay
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: mlundy57 on 26 Jun 2016, 05:45 pm
Jay,

Six of one, half dozen of the other. I've done it both ways. For me it comes down to which is going to be easiest and/or cleanest to layout.  The tube connectors can handle up to three of the 16ga wires. If I have more than one wire going into the tube connector I twist the wires together before inserting into the tube connector. On the NX-Otica networks I just built, each of the three sections had their own positive and negative leads going to the tube connectors.

Also, when the polarity gets reversed at the driver(s) there are two ways to do the color coding: (1) code the wires coming off the network toward the drivers so that white wires connect to the negative poles of the drivers and red wires connect to the positive poles i.e. reverse the polarity with the color coding; (2) color code the wires so that they correspond to the tube connector (from the amp) so that the red wires coming off the board are connected to the positive tube connector and the white wires are connected to the negative tube connector then reverse polarity at the drivers as necessary.

I find the first method confusing when reading a wiring diagram that shows the polarity being reversed at the drivers. Plus if I or somebody else has to work on the network later and either forgot or didn't know the color coding had been reversed it could be a headache so I prefer to use method 2, Keep the color coding consistent with the amp input. Either way works, it's just which you find easiest to work with.

Mike
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Captainhemo on 26 Jun 2016, 07:26 pm
AThanks Mike,  that is what I thought but I wanted to be sure.
I agree, method one of color coding could be confusing, better to stay as the  schematic shows.

I did notice in  the pics you had split all  3 legs  at the connectors.... I'm building so P2P Encore networks and thought it might be easier to have the 3 components that go to ground all conected at the same point then split the  neg wire to each driver

I will post a pic soon

jay
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: mlundy57 on 26 Jun 2016, 09:02 pm
AThanks Mike,  that is what I thought but I wanted to be sure.
I agree, method one of color coding could be confusing, better to stay as the  schematic shows.

I did notice in  the pics you had split all  3 legs  at the connectors.... I'm building so P2P Encore networks and thought it might be easier to have the 3 components that go to ground all conected at the same point then split the  neg wire to each driver

I will post a pic soon

jay

When I built the N3 and all the Encores I only had one negative and one positive wire connected to the tube connectors then split off just before the first driver.

You could run the wire all the way from the crossover to the first driver then jumper up to the second driver (two wires twisted together soldered to the tabs of the first driver, one from the crossover and the other to the second driver).

Mike
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Captainhemo on 27 Jun 2016, 03:20 am
When I built the N3 and all the Encores I only had one negative and one positive wire connected to the tube connectors then split off just before the first driver.

You could run the wire all the way from the crossover to the first driver then jumper up to the second driver (two wires twisted together soldered to the tabs of the first driver, one from the crossover and the other to the second driver).

Mike

This is not for drivers in paralle (like the Otticas, N3's, Encore CS's  etc), I do that in cases  where it applies but not here

jay
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Captainhemo on 5 Jul 2016, 04:19 pm
finally  laid thiee out, just need to solder up and wire

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=146319)
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: rockdrummer on 4 Dec 2016, 02:05 pm
I have a question about crossover placement and grill magnets. I have two small neo magnets on each side that will be, at the absolute closest, about 2 inches from the very corner of the super v crossover.  I am using Danny's layout like the pics on page 3 of this thread. So there are coils somewhat near those magnets.

I have no idea if that can affect anything. 

Do any of you have an opinion?
Thanks.
Ben
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Captainhemo on 7 Dec 2016, 04:41 pm
I don't think they will be an issue Ben. IIRC , in one of the Ottica threads, Danny had mentioned it wasn't an issue with the  magnets on the drivers so I doublt the little  ND grill magnets  will be a concern

jay
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: rockdrummer on 8 Dec 2016, 09:33 pm
Thanks Jay.  I was hoping that was the case.  Digging the magnets out was going to be the end of me.

ben
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Danny Richie on 9 Dec 2016, 01:21 am
Those magnets are small enough and the inductors are far enough away for them to be okay.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: pinkfloyd4ever on 2 Jan 2017, 01:46 am
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=155709)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=155710)

Danny, I'm finally working on my Insignia upgrades I ordered back in April  :?

Does my inductor positioning look ok to you (or anyone else who knows)? Specifically the stock one relative to the 0.47 Erse.

Btw, have you ever considered having crossover PCBs made for your bigger selling DIY kits?
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Danny Richie on 2 Jan 2017, 03:59 am
Yeah, that looks good.

And all of our X-Series speakers have fully assembled crossovers.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: rockdrummer on 12 Feb 2017, 02:18 pm
I am wiring super v crossovers. One of the inductors seems to have coating going to the end of the wire. I have two questions, do I need to remove that coating for conducting/soldering purposes? And can i sand that coating off?
Thanks. Ben
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: rockdrummer on 12 Feb 2017, 02:22 pm
I wasn't quite clear enough there. It is the yellowish rough coating. Not the red coating.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=157742)
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Stuart on 12 Feb 2017, 04:51 pm
That yellowish coating is in fact the solid copper wire that make up the coil. The other leads are silver because the have been coated in solder. Go ahead and solder together as required!
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Danny Richie on 12 Feb 2017, 06:07 pm
You can always clean it up with a little steel wool or sand paper.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: dennismiller55 on 23 Sep 2018, 04:17 pm
I am building the X-LS speakers.  This my very first speaker build.  I have almost finished the crossovers.   What is the recommended procedure for test crossovers before burying them in the enclosure?


(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=184744)
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: mlundy57 on 23 Sep 2018, 06:24 pm
I am building the X-LS speakers.  This my very first speaker build.  I have almost finished the crossovers.   What is the recommended procedure for test crossovers before burying them in the enclosure?


(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=184744)

I use pigtails with alligator clips. I use a total of six pairs (positive & negative). Two of the pairs are cheap speaker wire connected to the amp at one end however you want. The other end has alligator clips and connects to the input wires of the crossovers. The other 4 pairs of pigtails have alligator clips on both ends. They connect the individual drivers to their respective circuits on the crossover boards.

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=184756)

Connect everything up, making sure nothing is touching something it shouldn't, then turn the amp on and play something. Don't get crazy trying to get the drivers to play loud, you might damage something. Listen closely and make sure the drivers are playing properly.

Mike
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: dennismiller55 on 23 Sep 2018, 06:35 pm
Thanks.  That's not to complicated.  I was thinking I would have to buy a microphone and use some software like REW or ARTA. 
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: mlundy57 on 23 Sep 2018, 07:05 pm
Not for testing the crossover network. That would be for setting up the room once they are built.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Danny Richie on 23 Sep 2018, 08:29 pm
I am building the X-LS speakers.  This my very first speaker build.  I have almost finished the crossovers.   What is the recommended procedure for test crossovers before burying them in the enclosure?


(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=184744)

I'm not sure why your wiring is underneath the board. That makes it a little hard to confirm everything. If you would have kept the wiring up top then I could look at the pictures of what you've done and confirm all is fine or not. 
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: PDR on 23 Sep 2018, 09:30 pm
Nice......been trying to get Dennis to try one of your designs for a while Danny.
Hope they turn out great and give hrs of enjoyment Dennis.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: dennismiller55 on 23 Sep 2018, 10:33 pm
I'm not sure why your wiring is underneath the board. That makes it a little hard to confirm everything. If you would have kept the wiring up top then I could look at the pictures of what you've done and confirm all is fine or not.

Well, I thought I would pass the wires underneath then back up to provide some form of strain relief.  In hindsight, I now see that once the crossover is installed and the enclosure sealed there never is any strain on the wire connections.

I have not solder any of the conncetions yet.  Let me see what I can do to put the wire back on top. 
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Danny Richie on 23 Sep 2018, 10:39 pm
Well, I thought I would pass the wires underneath then back up to provide some form of strain relief.  In hindsight, I now see that once the crossover is installed and the enclosure sealed there never is any strain on the wire connections.

I have not solder any of the conncetions yet.  Let me see what I can do to put the wire back on top.

Posts pics afterward and we'll give you a thumbs up if all is good.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: dennismiller55 on 27 Sep 2018, 03:16 pm
I moved the wires to the top:



(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=184897)

Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Danny Richie on 27 Sep 2018, 03:47 pm
Looks correct.  :thumb:

See some of the examples at the first of this thread. Wiring is connected in such a way as to allow the supplied heat shrink to be used on the high purity OFC wire. Sealing the ends will keep the Copper from oxidizing over time and keep it all sounding good.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: dennismiller55 on 30 Sep 2018, 11:32 pm
I really appreciate the help on my first build.  I order a second kit of the X-LS.  Taking Danny's recommendations from the above post.  Here is the next crossovers build that i was able hide the high purity OFC wire in heatshrink. 




(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=185042)








Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Danny Richie on 1 Oct 2018, 04:44 pm
Nicely done.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: newbie5011 on 15 Aug 2019, 05:21 am
I am a newbie (first timer)....  just rcvd neo N2X kit with electronics included as a gift. I have absolutely NO IDEA how to assemble and configure the crossover for it. Can someone plz me where i can find a link w/assembly instructions for both the speaker cabinet and the crossover? Plz help!

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=197612)


Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: newbie5011 on 15 Aug 2019, 05:41 am
I meant the NEO 2X.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Danny Richie on 15 Aug 2019, 05:31 pm
I am a newbie (first timer)....  just rcvd neo N2X kit with electronics included as a gift. I have absolutely NO IDEA how to assemble and configure the crossover for it. Can someone plz me where i can find a link w/assembly instructions for both the speaker cabinet and the crossover? Plz help!

Visit the first page of this thread and it will show you how to twist the parts together.

You also should have received a wiring diagram that will show you what parts to twist together to complete the circuit. It is a bit like connecting the dots.

If necessary give me a call and I'll walk you through it.

You'll also need to keep in mind how to orient the coils.

(http://www.gr-research.com/pics/coils.jpg)
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Danny Richie on 22 Aug 2019, 03:48 pm
I am a newbie (first timer)....  just rcvd neo N2X kit with electronics included as a gift. I have absolutely NO IDEA how to assemble and configure the crossover for it. Can someone plz me where i can find a link w/assembly instructions for both the speaker cabinet and the crossover? Plz help!

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=197612)

How are you doing on those?
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: mikeeastman on 22 Aug 2019, 04:39 pm
I’m about to replace my sonicap platinum by pass caps, on my x-overs with some MIFlex copper ones and I want to make sure I’m doing it correctly. I have 2 matched pairs, I' putting  one match pair  on the tweeter circuits and the other matched pair on the Mids, is this correct?
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Captainhemo on 24 Aug 2019, 09:38 pm
I’m about to replace my sonicap platinum by pass caps, on my x-overs with some MIFlex copper ones and I want to make sure I’m doing it correctly. I have 2 matched pairs, I' putting  one match pair  on the tweeter circuits and the other matched pair on the Mids, is this correct?

Yes, if you  have  2 pairs, that's the way to go

jay
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: tubav on 24 Aug 2019, 09:45 pm
If the main tweeter cap is 1.5uf, what is best value for a bypass cap. Thinking of trying the Miflex copper. Thanks.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: AKLegal on 25 Aug 2019, 12:55 am
If the main tweeter cap is 1.5uf, what is best value for a bypass cap. Thinking of trying the Miflex copper. Thanks.

1.5uf is a pretty low value. You are probably better off just replacing the cap with a 1.5 uf MiFlex.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Tyson on 25 Aug 2019, 04:06 am
Bypass caps should never be larger than .1uf
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Gearguy on 24 Nov 2019, 03:27 am
I hope this is the right place to request assistance. I test wired just the tweeter portion, but no joy when tested. Should the tweeter portion work without the woofer crossover components?


(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=201300)

Any suggestions? Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: mboxler on 24 Nov 2019, 02:34 pm
I hope this is the right place to request assistance. I test wired just the tweeter portion, but no joy when tested. Should the tweeter portion work without the woofer crossover components?


(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=201300)

Any suggestions? Thanks in advance.

Yes it should work on it's own.  Can you post the schematic?  Looks like a series resistor, followed by a two pole high pass filter, followed by an L-pad.  Can't figure out what looks like a capacitor in parallel with one of the L-pad resistors, though.

What do you mean by no joy? 

Mike
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Gearguy on 24 Nov 2019, 02:56 pm
Thanks Mike. No joy = it doesn't work! I suspect I did something wrong but haven't figured it out yet.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: S Clark on 24 Nov 2019, 03:01 pm
The circuit looks continuous to the tweeter.  Have you hooked the tweeter up straight to a source ( preferably with a cap in line for protection) and played a low volume signal to it?  I'd check to make sure the driver is good. 
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: mboxler on 24 Nov 2019, 03:13 pm
Thanks Mike. No joy = it doesn't work! I suspect I did something wrong but haven't figured it out yet.

Bummer!  Was hoping it just sounded bad.  When I test a crossover, I use a resistor in place of the driver.  I apply a sine wave (say 2000hz) at the input and measure the output.  If zero, measure voltages across the other series components until I find the problem.

Mike

Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Gearguy on 24 Nov 2019, 03:17 pm
Yes, I did check that the tweeter is good. I will use test leads w/alligator clips and will try again to build this in test mode.

** updated 27 Nov. - Got the test leads and tried again. It worked correctly, so now I'll build it for real.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: S Clark on 24 Nov 2019, 03:45 pm
OK, it looks like    +  resistor--cap----l-------resistor--------- tweeter
                                                        l           l cap l       l
                                                     coil                      resistor
                                                        l                           l
                        -    -------------------------------------------- tweeter

It's a second order x-over with a bit of lift on the high end... I think.  Your idea of building it with test leads is a good one. 
I'd call Danny first thing Monday if you can't get it working. 
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Danny Richie on 24 Nov 2019, 10:52 pm
It looks correct.

Also, no need to add heat shrink on the components. That wire wiring is tinned already and won't oxidize. Use it everywhere you use a connecting wire.

(http://gr-research.com/pics/xlsencorecrossoverpic2.jpg)
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: birkbott on 26 Nov 2019, 09:43 pm
For the X-LS Encore I did my best to copy what was above, does this look ok?

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=201390)
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: birkbott on 26 Nov 2019, 11:50 pm
Also how do I order more of the solid core copper wire that you use?
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: mlundy57 on 27 Nov 2019, 12:14 am
Just call Danny
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Danny Richie on 27 Nov 2019, 12:19 am
For the X-LS Encore I did my best to copy what was above, does this look ok?

It's not pretty, but it looks correct.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: birkbott on 27 Nov 2019, 11:19 am
It's not pretty, but it looks correct.

Story of my life! Thanks
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: birkbott on 4 Dec 2019, 08:56 pm
I have a follow up question:
Once I have everything secure to the board, I heard mention of using silicone to lock everything in place. Is that just regular silicone that you buy at the hardware store? Or is there something else that should be used?

And is is a good/bad idea to silicone the solder joints as well to reinforce them to the board? Or no?
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Peter J on 4 Dec 2019, 09:06 pm
If you have it, hot glue is another way to go, but then I have no love for silicone caulk... another story.  I wouldn't worry about the wiring too much, I'll sometimes use really small zip ties to secure wires.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Danny Richie on 4 Dec 2019, 09:22 pm
I just use a little Silicon under the inductors, but Hot glue works well too and dries much faster. So I have been using hot glue the most lately. And you can put it around the edges of everything after all is wired and done.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: KMPLSV on 1 Feb 2020, 10:50 am
Very good information. Lots to absorb for a beginner, but learning about crossovers is the main reason I came here. Thank you!
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Jaytor on 1 Feb 2020, 11:14 pm
Question about the silicone/hot glue. When I built my crossovers, I secured all the components with zip ties, but did not use any other adhesion method. I can see how using silicone or hot glue could reduce any vibration of the components. Is this the reason to add the extra adhesive, or is it just to keep things from shifting when the speakers are moved around or from sound vibrations?

Thanks,
Jay
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: HAL on 2 Feb 2020, 12:48 am
If you do use silicone adhesive, use the electrical grade. 

The standard version silicone adhesive uses acetic acid and corrosive to some materials and metal.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Water Dog on 9 Feb 2020, 10:16 pm
Do driver magnets affect crossover components... Should any components be positioned further away?

Edit: I think I found the answer.  Now that I have 3 posts I can search for myself!  :thumb:


Quote from: Arctos
Greetings,
Here is a quick question for you techies!!  When building crossovers for my latest DIY speakers, do I need to be concerned with the stray magnetic field of the inductors interacting with either resistors or capacitors?  I know that inductors will interact with each other depending on proximity and alignment, but don't know if I need to worry about other components.

Thanks,

RDS

 The very anal lose a lot of sleep over this, I don't. I wouldn't attach a cap or resistor directly on top of a coil but very long runs of wire between parts is also not a recipe for success. I would also rewire the speaker internally. See the link in my other post.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Sonicjoy on 6 Mar 2020, 03:28 pm
Danny or anyone who may know. Here is my interpretation of the NX-Studio Monitor Crossover schematic. Does this look correct?

One thing that would be a great addition to the kits Danny is if you could include a photo of the crossover for each design. Would save a lot of head scratching for newbies.

Sorry about the blurry photo. Hard to get good light indoors at night.


(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=205556)
(Upper left) Positive in. (Left of center) woofer positive. (right of center) Negetive in/ woofer neg./ tweeter pos. (upper right) tweeter neg.

This is my first crossover build so any thoughts on my lay out are appreciated.
Thanks!
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: maty on 6 Mar 2020, 03:40 pm
Maybe... wires with heatshrink.

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=205559&size=huge)
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Sonicjoy on 6 Mar 2020, 04:21 pm
Thanks Maty. The kit comes with heat shrink but I'm not ready for that yet. Just trying to confirm the layout and connections. I'm not new to wiring things (cars, boats, houses and audio systems etc.) just have not assembled crossover networks from scratch before.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Danny Richie on 6 Mar 2020, 04:38 pm
Danny or anyone who may know. Here is my interpretation of the NX-Studio Monitor Crossover schematic. Does this look correct?

One thing that would be a great addition to the kits Danny is if you could include a photo of the crossover for each design. Would save a lot of head scratching for newbies.

Sorry about the blurry photo. Hard to get good light indoors at night.


(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=205556)
(Upper left) Positive in. (Left of center) woofer positive. (right of center) Negetive in/ woofer neg./ tweeter pos. (upper right) tweeter neg.

This is my first crossover build so any thoughts on my lay out are appreciated.
Thanks!

Looks correct from what I can tell. And if you run your wiring correctly then it should all work.

check the pictures on the first page to see how wires are twisted together and connected. That might help.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Sonicjoy on 6 Mar 2020, 09:26 pm
Thank you Danny!

The final version will be neater looking. This is just a test fitting.

You mentioned earlier that the caps should all be oriented the same way. Is that electrically or visually? And if electrically how would I determine that?
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Rock Ball on 8 Mar 2020, 01:15 pm
Your MIFLEX bypass capacitor is the same type as mine; both leads are on the same end.  Did you connect the longer lead to a specific side of the other capacitor, or does it not matter?
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Sonicjoy on 8 Mar 2020, 01:36 pm
Hi Rock Ball. I don't think it matters but I'm no expert. This is my first crossover build. I'm just making sure the both crossovers have all the components facing the same way. Both are identical.

I finished both crossovers yesterday (Sat March 7) and have the first speaker wired and assembled ready for testing. Just about to start assembling the second one after my first cup of coffee this morning. Will be updating my build thread later today or tomorrow. Keep an eye out there.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Danny Richie on 9 Mar 2020, 07:42 pm
Your MIFLEX bypass capacitor is the same type as mine; both leads are on the same end.  Did you connect the longer lead to a specific side of the other capacitor, or does it not matter?

They work either way, but may sound slightly different one way verses the other. The shorter lead is considered the input side.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Sonicjoy on 14 Mar 2020, 02:19 pm
Thanks Danny.

I did make sure both networks were identical in that regard.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Skilly on 24 Mar 2020, 02:49 pm
Deleted
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Danny Richie on 24 Mar 2020, 02:55 pm
Version 1 crossover on the left, and version 2 on the right.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Skilly on 24 Mar 2020, 03:49 pm
Deleted
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Danny Richie on 24 Mar 2020, 03:58 pm
Wouldn't it be ideal for the same version to be in both speakers? I wonder if that had in impact in the sound? So It does raise the question, I have not seen addressed here? What do we do with old parts? Reuse? recycle? turn into pop art? I Suspect the answer will be, "Build more speakers."

That is weird that they put one of each in a pair of speakers. The values are the same. So they should be pretty close.

I don't know what to tell you to do with the old crossovers. I have stacks of them from everything as well.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Rocket_Ronny on 24 Mar 2020, 03:59 pm
Danny, can you post a picture of what the Super Mini crossover should look like? That would be helpful for me in a little bit.

Rocket Ronny
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: kmoser on 15 Apr 2020, 04:10 pm
Great tutorial! What about one on how you design high pass filters?
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: vilding on 19 Apr 2020, 02:27 pm
Don't know if this is the right place to ask, but....
If I wanna rebuild a pair of xo's and can't find the schematics, is there a relatively easy way to find out the inductance of the coils?
/Hilding the noob viking
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Captainhemo on 19 Apr 2020, 03:53 pm
You  can buy relatively  inexpensive inductor meters but you'll   get  what you  pay for.
Some audio meters such as the CLIO / CLIO Pocket will  do the job as well but you're getting into    more  $$ but at the same time,  getting  a more  versitile  tool that   may be of mor euse  to you in the future

jay
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: vilding on 19 Apr 2020, 05:04 pm
You  can buy relatively  inexpensive inductor meters but you'll   get  what you  pay for.
Some audio meters such as the CLIO / CLIO Pocket will  do the job as well but you're getting into    more  $$ but at the same time,  getting  a more  versitile  tool that   may be of mor euse  to you in the future

jay

Thank you for the answer. There are rarely any quick fixes, are there..?  :lol:
The Clio seems awesome but as you said... €€€ :o I think I'll just let this rest for a while instead of putting 100+€ into an LCR that I'll probably use once every third year.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Danny Richie on 19 Apr 2020, 06:40 pm
Don't know if this is the right place to ask, but....
If I wanna rebuild a pair of xo's and can't find the schematics, is there a relatively easy way to find out the inductance of the coils?
/Hilding the noob viking

The only way to get the values on them is to measure them.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Ekim on 25 Apr 2020, 09:17 pm
Thanks for the thread with all this info.
Looking forward to putting this into practice :D.

Mike:Ekim
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: PZ on 20 May 2020, 10:02 pm
Danny, I saw that you recommended the Craftsman Dual Heat Soldering Gun. It looks like its temporarily unavailable from Craftsman. 
Does this Wall Lenk Soldering Gun look like the same gun? or does anyone have experience with it?


(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=209284)


In some on line tutorials I saw that solder paste flux is recommended to improve soldering joint. Is flux paste needed or help with soldering crossover for the speaker kit?

Most of the crossovers throughout the thread look to be assembled on 1/4" - 1/2" wood laminate boards. Any suggestions on ideal material specs to use for cross over board? Material type? and how thick?
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Hobbsmeerkat on 20 May 2020, 11:40 pm
From my (little) experience working with soldering, flux is great when working with wiring/attaching/removing things onto a circuit board. It helps prevent accidental shorts when attaching/removing chips, or making new connections in tight spaces.

With more direct point-to-point methods, its not been necessary.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Danny Richie on 21 May 2020, 12:15 am
Danny, I saw that you recommended the Craftsman Dual Heat Soldering Gun. It looks like its temporarily unavailable from Craftsman. 
Does this Wall Lenk Soldering Gun look like the same gun? or does anyone have experience with it?

That looks like the same one.

Quote
In some on line tutorials I saw that solder paste flux is recommended to improve soldering joint. Is flux paste needed or help with soldering crossover for the speaker kit?

Any of the solder that we send out has a flux built in. So you don't have to fool with trying to add flux paste.

Quote
Most of the crossovers throughout the thread look to be assembled on 1/4" - 1/2" wood laminate boards. Any suggestions on ideal material specs to use for cross over board? Material type? and how thick?

I usually cut out a piece from some 3/8" MDF.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Striker071 on 21 May 2020, 02:00 pm
I am new to this.   I am so confused.  The way I see this and maybe I shouldn't is ins and outs.  On the picture shown on the first crossover when it looks like a complete loop that goes to no where.  My brain says wait thats a short....  can someone help me wrap this around my brain.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Peter J on 21 May 2020, 02:21 pm
I am new to this.   I am so confused.  The way I see this and maybe I shouldn't is ins and outs.  On the picture shown on the first crossover when it looks like a complete loop that goes to no where.  My brain says wait thats a short....  can someone help me wrap this around my brain.

I know exactly what you mean. Having worked with DC in cars, boats and houses, plus AC in residential and commercial, it looks like a short. But it works. I can't explain it all electrically, but the voltage dealt with in crossover is miniscule in comparison. Wire like schematics and it will work...really.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Striker071 on 21 May 2020, 03:15 pm
Peter

Thank you for your response.  I was able to find another resource that explained it.  I guess a wiring diagram helped me understand it better and I learned something as well.

I just don't take things on faith when it comes to voltages.  I build my own computers as a hobby.   Put a 12 volt connector into a 5 volt line.... needles to say I watched a little trail of red cook the circuits on the motherboard. About 600 dollars of equipment done in a blink of an eye.   
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Phenol on 28 May 2020, 08:23 pm
Patiently waiting on My XL-s encore kit. I have been looking over the crossover pictures does any one have more pictures I could study?
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Danny Richie on 28 May 2020, 10:58 pm
Patiently waiting on My XL-s encore kit. I have been looking over the crossover pictures does any one have more pictures I could study?

Inductors are suppose to arrive here on Monday. And then about 20 X-LS Encore kits can start shipping.

And I can email you crossover photos.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Carlos74 on 29 May 2020, 01:04 am
Just a side note on building your own crossovers with upgraded parts.

I built new crossovers for my Klipsch RF83, new upgraded parts with same values, from GR Research, and I could not believe the difference that made.  My speakers were practically transformed for the better. Not only to my ears, but the measurements proved what I was hearing. This motivated me to continue with bracing the cabinets, changing internal wiring, just ordered NoRez for internal damping and ordering pure copper binding post, and I am sure this will contribute even more. The sum of all these parts should make a considerable difference for the better, I hope!!

I can't stress enough the impact of upgraded parts for your speakers. It is an affordable difference that could have a huge impact. Try it, you won't regret it. And if you can't hear a difference, at least you learned how to build crossovers and got the doubt out of your system!!
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Phenol on 29 May 2020, 01:39 am
Thanks, That sounds good.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Phenol on 29 May 2020, 04:30 pm
I hope I will hear a difference. However I wear hearing aids. The dangers of loud music.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: PnoT on 8 Jun 2020, 08:02 pm
I'm just getting around to opening up my Elac B6.2 upgrade kit and figured I'd register and learn a bit.

There doesn't seem to be a B6.2 upgrade post with build instructions or did I just miss it because I can't search at the moment being a new user?
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Danny Richie on 8 Jun 2020, 11:00 pm
I'm just getting around to opening up my Elac B6.2 upgrade kit and figured I'd register and learn a bit.

There doesn't seem to be a B6.2 upgrade post with build instructions or did I just miss it because I can't search at the moment being a new user?

Welcome to AC.

If you watch the video's on the Klipsch RP-600M upgrade then the Elac upgrade is just like it but the crossover values are different. I did five videos on it.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIJHwsTJyrH4YznoJxZmJHQ/videos
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: PnoT on 9 Jun 2020, 03:48 am
Welcome to AC.

If you watch the video's on the Klipsch RP-600M upgrade then the Elac upgrade is just like it but the crossover values are different. I did five videos on it.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIJHwsTJyrH4YznoJxZmJHQ/videos

I was already skimming those vids for some details  :thumb:

Thanks!
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: fasteddieb on 13 Jun 2020, 11:55 pm
Hi,

I am attempting my first build (A/V-O) and am having a little trouble with laying out the crossover. Does anyone have a picture of what the A/V-O assembled crossover should look like? The space is pretty tight! I seem to remember seeing a picture in the past but now I cannot find it.

Thanks!
Ed
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: BakedFireman on 14 Jun 2020, 01:39 am

Am I on the right track?
I just watched Danny's video on the klipsch speaker crossover networks , gonna go look all this over again.
it is tying both networks together or how to feed them. can i feed them at the same point? :duh:

 :duh:OK disregard ,excellent video Danny , I will go back and do it over.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: bonsiguy on 18 Jun 2020, 07:33 pm
love this thread danny thank you !!!!!!   i have been rebuilding a few sets of maggies  like the mg 1 mg 2b and a set of smga  and was wondering if the inductors go bad in them i have changed the caps and that made a huge difference  should i re do the inductors ? and would welcome any tips and hints to get them to sound better . again thanks

Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Eldergod on 20 Jun 2020, 10:35 pm
Sooooo.... do I have to remove the red coating from the air core inductors before connecting and soldering?
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Sonicjoy on 20 Jun 2020, 10:58 pm
If they don't already have bare ends then yes. You can scrape with a knife or use sandpaper.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Eldergod on 21 Jun 2020, 12:06 pm

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=210704)
Thanks. Almost occurred to me too late.  One other question: Can ground/negative for both tweeter and woofer be basically the same line/wire/connection?  Seems like it shouldn’t matter and make the connections simpler.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Captainhemo on 22 Jun 2020, 05:09 pm
Quote
One other question: Can ground/negative for both tweeter and woofer be basically the same line/wire/connection?  Seems like it shouldn’t matter and make the connections simpler.
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 10:41:06 by Eldergod »

yes, in a parallel network anyway.... all goes back to  same   - input

jay

jay
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: MokhaMark on 29 Jun 2020, 04:21 pm
Hi All,

I am a new member working on my first crossover. Thank you Danny and everyone for this helpful thread. I have read this thread and answered most questions, I cannot search yet for the answer to what may be an obvious question, so making a post which I think will be my third and allow me to search.

I did find Danny's post about keeping capacitors running in the same direction. However, I did not find anything indicating if it is important to use the inner or outer wire of the inductors in any direction in the crossover. I assume it does not matter, being just wound copper. Also, does it matter if the wire goin to negative, for example, crosses back over the inductor? Given where the leads in my inductors are zip tied, I am having a hard time matching Danny's pictures exactly getting to the other connections.

Thanks in advance for any answers and if the question is so remedial as to be stupid, I apologize, I am a complete newbie.

Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Hobbsmeerkat on 29 Jun 2020, 07:11 pm
For the inductors on my X-LS crossover, I used inner wire on the input and outer wire on the output, since that's how I was shown.
That said, since its a continuous wire, I don't think orientation is too consequential like it is with resistors & capacitors.. but I could be wrong in that assumption
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: MokhaMark on 29 Jun 2020, 09:00 pm
Thank you for the info Hobbsmeerkat, I'll try to rig it that way if I can. Can't wait to hear these eventually.....
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Speaker Challenged on 3 Jul 2020, 12:29 am
I am just starting my DIY speaker journey and the crossover was the scariest part for me. No so now thanks to Danny's youtube videos and threads like this.

Thanks a lot guys.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Phenol on 3 Jul 2020, 10:30 pm
Is this correct. Getting ready to install. X-LS Encore
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=211310)

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=211310)
(http://)
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Sonicjoy on 4 Jul 2020, 12:39 am
Hello. It would be helpful to know what model speaker it is for.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Phenol on 4 Jul 2020, 12:47 am
X-LS Encore.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: TexE4D on 4 Jul 2020, 05:20 am
I'm curious, what's the reason for concealing the component info'?
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Hobbsmeerkat on 4 Jul 2020, 01:02 pm
I'm curious, what's the reason for concealing the component info'?
Danny asks to keep the values secret know only to him and those that purchase the kits.

That said, the overall layout looks correct, but I had the base level kit, so its slightly different than mine was, namely the first Sonicap on the tweeter circuit. Mine has a 2nd, smaller cap attached across both leads, much like the resistor later in the circuit also has a small sonicap.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Danny Richie on 4 Jul 2020, 06:38 pm
Is this correct. Getting ready to install. X-LS Encore

Looks good.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: zoso124 on 22 Jul 2020, 11:57 pm
Building the X-CS Encore. I'm not sure where the 2nd 4ohm resistor goes.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=212212)
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Danny Richie on 23 Jul 2020, 02:16 pm
Building the X-CS Encore. I'm not sure where the 2nd 4ohm resistor goes.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=212212)

That is not correct. You have some caps in the tweeter circuit flip flopped too.

We are doing a Youtube series on the X-LS Encore build and I go through crossover layout and assembly step by step. Look for more of those to be up shortly. I have already filmed most of them, and the ones on crossover assembly worked out great.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Redorseyjr on 20 Sep 2020, 12:33 am
Danny, I could really use something like this for the X-Static crossover.  I’m more of a component layout guy vs the schematic I got.  The cabinets are nearly done but the crossovers have the potential to by the bottle neck to getting them up and running.

Thanks,

Rod
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Danny Richie on 20 Sep 2020, 01:41 pm
Danny, I could really use something like this for the X-Static crossover.  I’m more of a component layout guy vs the schematic I got.  The cabinets are nearly done but the crossovers have the potential to by the bottle neck to getting them up and running.

Thanks,

Rod

At some point I will do a complete assembly of one on video. But I am not too sure just when I can get to it.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: vkaul on 21 Sep 2020, 02:27 am
Danny, a friend of mine who knows a lot more about building circuits than I do had the following comments. Could you please comment and confirm whether I need to address any of his comments. (1) Resistors get hot...so not a good idea to have them next to to the caps. Recommend you keep them off the board for airflow and away from other components and not have them held by zip ties, he is thinking they may generate 5W or so (2) To use sandpaper and strip the ends of the inductor till the copper shows. Thanks. (BTW, hearing you comment about how the bypass caps take things to the next level. I did go ahead and order them. Being a novice took me a while to find them on the web at sonic craft and order them. Recommend you adding them as another orderable option on your site.) Given all the hours I have put into building the kit I am perfectly willing to spend another eighty dollars on the cap if that will take things to another level.) My son and I can't wait to complete the project.


(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=214915)
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Danny Richie on 21 Sep 2020, 12:32 pm
First of all, if you are going to post pictures please hide or conceal the values used.

Danny, a friend of mine who knows a lot more about building circuits than I do had the following comments. Could you please comment and confirm whether I need to address any of his comments. (1) Resistors get hot...so not a good idea to have them next to to the caps. Recommend you keep them off the board for airflow and away from other components and not have them held by zip ties, he is thinking they may generate 5W or so

They won't get hot enough to hurt anything.

 
Quote
(2) To use sandpaper and strip the ends of the inductor till the copper shows. Thanks. (BTW, hearing you comment about how the bypass caps take things to the next level. I did go ahead and order them. Being a novice took me a while to find them on the web at sonic craft and order them.

We stock them and can add them in to your order.

Quote
Recommend you adding them as another orderable option on your site.) Given all the hours I have put into building the kit I am perfectly willing to spend another eighty dollars on the cap if that will take things to another level.) My son and I can't wait to complete the project.

We'll have that option up on the new website.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: corndog71 on 21 Sep 2020, 10:39 pm
Danny,
You may want to make a sticky post regarding posting crossover pics and part values.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: MattSelinger on 16 Nov 2020, 01:02 am
Regarding the bypass caps...  I recently called up Danny and ordered the Miflex bypass caps to add to my X-LS Encores.  I had included all the upgrades but did not know about these when I made the order.  So this was a retrofit and I had to take apart my encores.  Danny suggested I might have enough slack to add the caps without having to unsolder the leads to the tube connectors to pull the crossover all the way out.  He suggested just sliding it out as far as I could and add the caps.  Danny was right.  Just enough room to get the crossover half way out of the woofer hole.  It was a little dicey to twist wires and solder one of the connections.  Took about 2 hours to make the modification altogether.  Thanks Danny for the guidance.

I do have a question - what is the bypass cap doing?  I can hear the difference.  Greater clarity/texture... sounds even more "real."  I would love to understand what is occurring in the crossover when you add this bypass or additional pathway for the signal.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Hobbsmeerkat on 16 Nov 2020, 02:02 am
As its been explained to me, bypass caps allow the highest frequencies to pass more freely & cleanly thru the crossover to the tweeter, with as little loss of quality as possible, allowing for better clarity and detail.
Hopefully that helps explain it a little better! :thumb:
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Early B. on 16 Nov 2020, 04:51 am
As its been explained to me, bypass caps allow the highest frequencies to pass more freely & cleanly thru the crossover to the tweeter, with as little loss of quality as possible, allowing for better clarity and detail.
Hopefully that helps explain it a little better! :thumb:

Huh?? So correct me if I'm not understanding you correctly -- the signal flows through the larger, lesser quality cap, but then it flows through a higher quality bypass cap that passes its sonic signature onward through the remainder of the signal path. And because the bypass cap is so small, it doesn't affect the crossover design.   
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Hobbsmeerkat on 16 Nov 2020, 11:55 am
Huh?? So correct me if I'm not understanding you correctly -- the signal flows through the larger, lesser quality cap, but then it flows through a higher quality bypass cap that passes its sonic signature onward through the remainder of the signal path. And because the bypass cap is so small, it doesn't affect the crossover design.   

Close but not quite, the bypass cap is run in parallel with the larger primary capacitor, so the signal passes thru both caps simultaneously, but the bypass cap only passes the highest frequencies, while the main cap passes all frequency ranges for the tweeter.

You can have both cap & bypass be the same quality, but usually, high end copper caps get expensive the bigger they get. (They also are quite physically large as well) Like a single large copper capacitor in the tweeter circuit can easily cost $800+, for just one and still use another small copper bypass cap.. so high end bypass caps with a good quality Sonicap are often a compromise between cost/performance.

But you are correct that their size doesnt influence the overall crossover design.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Early B. on 16 Nov 2020, 02:46 pm
Close but not quite, the bypass cap is run in parallel with the larger primary capacitor, so the signal passes thru both caps simultaneously, but the bypass cap only passes the highest frequencies, while the main cap passes all frequency ranges for the tweeter.

You can have both cap & bypass be the same quality,...

I'm still not 100% clear. A google search brings up a ton of explanations, but none of which I've read so far are particularly helpful. I have three questions:

1. If the bypass cap is passing only the highest frequencies, how does that improve the sound since the main cap is also passing the highest frequencies simultaneously? 
2. Bypass caps can go on the midrange, as well. What role is the bypass cap playing -- is it passing the highest frequencies within the midrange band?
3. What benefit is there to have a bypass cap of the same quality as the main cap?

Thanks.

 
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Hobbsmeerkat on 16 Nov 2020, 03:52 pm
I'm still not 100% clear. A google search brings up a ton of explanations, but none of which I've read so far are particularly helpful. I have three questions:

1. If the bypass cap is passing only the highest frequencies, how does that improve the sound since the main cap is also passing the highest frequencies simultaneously? 
2. Bypass caps can go on the midrange, as well. What role is the bypass cap playing -- is it passing the highest frequencies within the midrange band?
3. What benefit is there to have a bypass cap of the same quality as the main cap?

Thanks.

1&2 share a similar reason. Smaller caps discharge more quickly than larger ones, allowing them to pass the highest frequencies more cleanly, where a large single cap will tend to "smear" those higher frequencies.
I believe for mid range circuits, it follows a similar principal, but the capacity is larger than those used on a tweeter circuit, (since both the top ranges are knocked out of the signal), allowing the upper-mid range to pass more cleanly in the same manner.

3. Cost ususally, but even if they're both ultra-high quality copper/waxpaper caps, the highest frequencies still benefit from a bypass cap thanks to their faster discharge rate.

Heres the one on my base XLS:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=217058)

And the one on mikeeastman's NX Studio:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=217059&size=large)

Both do the same thing but are totally different quality levels.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Early B. on 16 Nov 2020, 05:08 pm
1&2 share a similar reason. Smaller caps discharge more quickly than larger ones, allowing them to pass the highest frequencies more cleanly, where a large single .

Here's where I'm confused -- if the smaller cap is discharging faster and more cleanly, the main cap is also discharging, but at a slower rate and not as clean, so you're still getting a smearing effect. Seems like the smaller cap would make it sound worse, not better.

I've used bypass caps in the past in both the tweeter and midrange circuits, and they've made a minor improvement, so I'm not "smearing" the use of bypass caps -- just trying to understand why they work.

   
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Hobbsmeerkat on 16 Nov 2020, 05:56 pm
I'm not 100% on this so if someone can explain it better, by all means chime in.
To my understanding, the smaller cap is a path of lower resistance for the highest frequencies, which will pass through at a higher levels than they will thru the main cap. So while the "smeared" sound may still be occuring thru the main cap, its not going to be as noticable since most of that signal is coming thru the bypass connection, the smearing effect is greatly reduced.

The remaining signal is blocked out from the bypass cap, allowing the rest of the signal to pass thru the main cap unimpeded.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: corndog71 on 16 Nov 2020, 08:14 pm
I haven’t heard great explanations for this and yet I’ve definitely heard a positive difference from adding bypass caps.  I know a couple brands of caps that seem to roll off the higher frequencies but with a good bypass sound more balanced.  And even Sonicaps which don’t sound muted or muffled up top benefit from bypass caps. 
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Danny Richie on 16 Nov 2020, 09:05 pm
Here's where I'm confused -- if the smaller cap is discharging faster and more cleanly, the main cap is also discharging, but at a slower rate and not as clean, so you're still getting a smearing effect. Seems like the smaller cap would make it sound worse, not better.

I've used bypass caps in the past in both the tweeter and midrange circuits, and they've made a minor improvement, so I'm not "smearing" the use of bypass caps -- just trying to understand why they work.

All caps store energy to some degree. The smaller they are the faster they discharge. So think of it as the smaller cap is shorting the larger one to discharge stored energy.

And when using caps of different values the discharge rate differences do cause a phase shift. So it is not good to use a 15uF cap and a 5uF cap to make a 20uF value. The phase shift can be in an audible range and cause the smearing effect.

However the bulk of the phase shift that the .1uF or smaller cap causes tends to be at or above 20kHz. So it is not really heard.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Lebo on 20 Nov 2020, 04:10 am
I just received my Encore X-CS and wanted to read this cross over sticky on Crossover assembly.  However, the pictures Danny attached are not downloading.  I get the framed picture of a blue question mark.  I am using a MacBook and Safari.  I made configuration changes to my browser based on others suggestions but I haven't had any luck.  Does anyone know another way to access the Crossover Assembly pics?  Thanks
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Hobbsmeerkat on 20 Nov 2020, 11:03 am
I just received my Encore X-CS and wanted to read this cross over sticky on Crossover assembly.  However, the pictures Danny attached are not downloading.  I get the framed picture of a blue question mark.  I am using a MacBook and Safari.  I made configuration changes to my browser based on others suggestions but I haven't had any luck.  Does anyone know another way to access the Crossover Assembly pics?  Thanks

Its not you, it's been that way ever since Dannys old email server was taken offline to start setting up the new website. He's still working on getting those pictures back online for them to start appearing again.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Lebo on 20 Nov 2020, 02:55 pm
Thanks HobbsMerkat.  I can see pictures you and others have posted.  I will try and get the general idea based of other posts unless someone out there has a specific Encore X=CS out there they can send me.  I'm sure its simple to but everything is hard the you don't know how to do it.  As simple as the schematic for the crossover looks it is still Greek to me.  But I'll get it.  Thanks again. 
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Hobbsmeerkat on 20 Nov 2020, 03:38 pm
Thanks HobbsMerkat.  I can see pictures you and others have posted.  I will try and get the general idea based of other posts unless someone out there has a specific Encore X=CS out there they can send me.  I'm sure its simple to but everything is hard the you don't know how to do it.  As simple as the schematic for the crossover looks it is still Greek to me.  But I'll get it.  Thanks again.

I believe the crossover on the X-CS is quite similar to the X-LS except for one less resistor on the Tweeter circuit. But should have the same woofer circuit.
But feel free to DM me if you have any specific questions!  :thumb:
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Tommy on 14 Dec 2020, 04:21 pm
Danny the crossover wizard...

...opened up my Magnepan MMG's by providing me the crossover parts to build myself.

They are on another level, with the addition of Rythmik 12" sealed Servo sub.


(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=218259)
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Hobbsmeerkat on 14 Dec 2020, 04:28 pm
Love the cable sleeving! Really tidies up the looks!
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Tommy on 15 Dec 2020, 02:39 pm
Thank you!

I love Techflex Flexo F6!

For this I used 1/4"
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: bogdan111 on 1 Jan 2021, 12:29 am
Does anyone have any insight into specifically the Klipsch rp-504c crossover upgrade? I am a newbie at DIYing speakers so would appreciate any help. Is there anything that I need to know with this speaker such as reverse polarity tweater? I also am not sure which ends end up going to which speaker seeing as how it's a 2.5 way speaker design. Thanks in advance for any help.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Danny Richie on 1 Jan 2021, 04:40 pm
Does anyone have any insight into specifically the Klipsch rp-504c crossover upgrade? I am a newbie at DIYing speakers so would appreciate any help. Is there anything that I need to know with this speaker such as reverse polarity tweater? I also am not sure which ends end up going to which speaker seeing as how it's a 2.5 way speaker design. Thanks in advance for any help.

The upgrade kit that we offer will answer all of those questions.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Lebo on 3 Jan 2021, 06:48 pm
Hi.  This is a first time practice layout for a Encore X-CS.  Does this looks correct?  I noticed in one section of the X-LS crossover video that Danny bundled the resistor, Sonicap, and mills capacitor all together.  Could I do that to tighten things up or are there only specific situations when that is OK?  Thanks.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=219053)
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Danny Richie on 3 Jan 2021, 09:29 pm
Hi.  This is a first time practice layout for a Encore X-CS.  Does this looks correct?  I noticed in one section of the X-LS crossover video that Danny bundled the resistor, Sonicap, and mills capacitor all together.  Could I do that to tighten things up or are there only specific situations when that is OK?  Thanks.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=219053)

What you have is correct. So long as you keep the inductors facing opposite directions then you can move everything else around as you need to.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Lebo on 4 Jan 2021, 02:21 pm
Thanks Danny.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Lebo on 5 Jan 2021, 04:18 am
Here is an Encore X-CS crossover for reference if anyone needs one.  I checked with Danny before I wired it up so it should be good.  It is my first attempt and I have another to wire up so if anyone sees any problems with this one
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=219124)
 please let me know.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: bithloman on 29 Jan 2021, 01:38 am
anyone able to help with mtm encore crossover? i think i have it right but i dont know where to attach the woofers to make sure the impedance is correct. is it that already taken care of with the crossover? or do i need to run them parallel? circling where to connect the speakers for mtm with tweeter would be helpful thanks!  i am not seeing any of the pictures in any of the threads i see? something wrong on my end?
Here is an Encore X-CS crossover for reference if anyone needs one.  I checked with Danny before I wired it up so it should be good.  It is my first attempt and I have another to wire up so if anyone sees any problems with this one
(https://www.audiocircle.com/ ERROR MALFORMED URL219124)
 please let me know.
What you have is correct. So long as you keep the inductors facing opposite directions then you can move everything else around as you need to.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=220118)

Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: bithloman on 29 Jan 2021, 01:40 am
it wont let me post my picture for some reason. says error. file is small only 71kb
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Danny Richie on 29 Jan 2021, 02:02 am
Email it over to me.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: bithloman on 29 Jan 2021, 04:15 am
email sent thanks
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: stiuskr on 9 Mar 2021, 11:06 pm
My crossover kit for the RP8000f arrived today and have questions about the binding posts. Started disassembling mainly to see what's inside, how much room I have to work with and what needs scraped down but I can't remove the binding post inner nuts with out fearing I'll strip out the plastic lock lugs on the other end, which I still need to use for now because of the tubes in the kit (ordered a tube/banana 24 cable kit the other day, hope it arrives soon so I can carry on). The nuts look like they're nylon locking and you can only get a few turns in before the plastic lug siezes up and I afraid it'll strip. Any workarounds or can I put a wrench on the lock lugs and it'll be OK?
Also I'm not sure about where I'll place the tube connectors on the back panel. There's no room for them on the binding post plate and the rear sub port is only a half inch or so above that. Right now I'm looking at discarding the post panel altogether and cut some wood to replace it as I have no plans or needs to bi-amp it.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Nebander on 2 Apr 2021, 08:48 pm
Hello Danny and the gang.

I have an issue with figuring out the highpass and bandpass section of this Jamo Classic 8 crossover. Crossover is 3-way (or 2.5 way?) with bi-wiring.

Could someone help out to point out the terminal +- and speaker +- in this layout?

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=222841)

Does GR Research have a ready crossover kit that would work as an upgrade to this thing? Relocating and repositioning the mid inductor should be the first thing to do right?

I hope that this forum thread is suitable for the post.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Hobbsmeerkat on 3 Apr 2021, 10:57 am
Only thing i can say is that your inductors need to be re arranged.
As they're layed out now, they'll create lots of interference with one another.

Here's a handy guide on how to best rearrange them.

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=222866&size=large)

Ill let everyone else speak to the rest of the issues.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Nebander on 3 Apr 2021, 11:48 am
Thanks Hobbs,

I'm gonna start by separating the high and mid circuit from the low side. So I'll get much more space for inductors.

Then I'm going to replace resistors with Mundorf M-Resist 5W 4.7 Ohm and remove the tweeter protect varistor.

What do you guys know about these yellow MDL caps? They are manufactured in late 1990, early 2000.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Shives on 3 Apr 2021, 12:55 pm
Hobbs!!! My buddy! Lol.

So, that’s an awesome chart about the inductors! This is very important for placement! Think of these things as a producing a force field of interruption when sitting the wrong way! Hobbs photo will show you exactly how to place them! Again, very important step! Normally I always lay one down.. and the other is a couple inches away, and I make sure it can roll into or roll away!

This way the magnetic force fields are opposing Each other and not interfering with each other. Magnetic fields cause issues!

Umm, the wire you are using!? What is that exactly? I would suggest another wire that’s a bit better suited for the network. You don’t want to bottle neck your signal path.

I don’t have the schematic handy, do you? can you post that so I can see. Looks like maybe you have some caps in parallel that I would put together possibly. And that’s a lot of wire you got there.. again a I would use a better wire. Those caps seem to be a Electrolytic non Polll to which are ok.. not the best. Coils look decent quality.. That sandblock resistor needs to go, just a suggestion. Lol.
Maybe even due away with that xover board and use another so you can tie the wires and leads together without using a hole and a tiny bit of solder. Does the board have actual trace on it? (Signal path copper lines on the board) of so, I would die away with that board all together and use a simple piece of MDF. Twisting all components together then soldering.

A lot of information to take in. But this is DIY, and your learning so much more then others that just run to the store and purchase a set of speakers! Feel accomplished!!! Your doing the work! Your ears will thank you later!



Also if you can use one wire for your ground..  sadly with this photo I can’t really tell.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Shives on 3 Apr 2021, 01:04 pm
Good morning everyone!!

I hope this is ok to post.

Figure I’ll make a quick post here... My name is Dave! I’m located in New England area.. If anyone needs help with assembly of crossover networks, or speaker builds please message me, I’m happy to help! I understand not everyone has room or ability/tools yet they want that GR sound!

I’m here to help build Danny’s products! That’s all!

Don’t be scared, don’t feel shame! Be proud your tackling such a project!

I’ve been working on, doing electronics for years.. like 25! (Happy to tell anyone my credentials if needed)  recently was lucky enough to visit Danny at his place in Texas, might be moving there soon! So, take advantage of me while you can... Wait.. Allow me to help! That’s better!

The folks are all here for the love of music, and DIY! Proud of you all for  taking on this challenge! It’s quiet rewarding.
Sorry to interrupt!
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Nebander on 3 Apr 2021, 06:40 pm
Umm, the wire you are using!? What is that exactly? I would suggest another wire that’s a bit better suited for the network. You don’t want to bottle neck your signal path.

I don’t have the schematic handy, do you? can you post that so I can see. Looks like maybe you have some caps in parallel that I would put together possibly. And that’s a lot of wire you got there.. again a I would use a better wire. Those caps seem to be a Electrolytic non Polll to which are ok.. not the best. Coils look decent quality.. That sandblock resistor needs to go, just a suggestion. Lol.
Maybe even due away with that xover board and use another so you can tie the wires and leads together without using a hole and a tiny bit of solder. Does the board have actual trace on it? (Signal path copper lines on the board) of so, I would die away with that board all together and use a simple piece of MDF. Twisting all components together then soldering.

A lot of information to take in. But this is DIY, and your learning so much more then others that just run to the store and purchase a set of speakers! Feel accomplished!!! Your doing the work! Your ears will thank you later!

Also if you can use one wire for your ground..  sadly with this photo I can’t really tell.
Thanks Dave for the feedback. It was a brilliant idea to take this whole thing apart and place the components on a new board! 

The xover is from Jamo Classic 8 speaker. All the connection points are visible in the photo. I'm going to rewire it and change the spacing and orientation of component for better.

I first thought that it had a tweeter protect varistor in it but it seems it has 4.7ohm 5w resistor and some smaller resistor in parallel.

How can I calculate this combination and replace it with right value single resistor?

Btw I found a "schematic" for the xover from another forum.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=222893)
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Camtjfreak on 4 Apr 2021, 02:49 am

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=222903)





Looking to see if this is correct?.. Thanks
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Hobbsmeerkat on 4 Apr 2021, 02:57 am
(Reminder to cover/obscure the values of components  :thumb:)
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Camtjfreak on 4 Apr 2021, 03:03 am
Fixed
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Shives on 4 Apr 2021, 03:17 pm
Good advise! Any of the GR networks, make sure you cover the values before you post. Any other company, not to worried about if we are helping you make the schematic. To which I wrote out the way, but fell asleep last night. I’ll send you a PM. Nebander
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Shives on 4 Apr 2021, 06:24 pm
Happy Easter!!

Looking for a good program to make nice schematics, but ended up just doing it long-hand written out a bit better... Maybe.

It will be for the  JAMO classic 8. This is what I’m gathering from the photo and supplied photo. Been years, but anyone can check my work, please. I’m happy to explain if needed, or answer questions. Also welcome to send me a PM of you need assistance or have a question about placing the components .

In a nut shell, make sure the inductors are not laying flat. If so, then make sure they are about 8 inches away from each other. Other wise, lay big one down, make sure mid rolls into, and smaller one lay down. This will mean you’ll only need about 4 inches apart. I don’t have the components to lay out, but again welcome to work something out if you need assembly help.

I tried to Mark things more to standard (if I recall right) as well trying not to go over head and allow you to see better where things hook up. If that drawing you gave me is right.
Dotted lines are just trying to show second woofer wire location. Again, both lower woofers share connections. Both are hooked same way, same spot. The mid and tweeter share a little then break out.

Try and run 1 negative line from terminal to speaker. You can cut the jacket off the wire say about 2 inches where needed then solder to wire without cutting. It keeps the chain solid! Sorry being yelled at this second. Have to run!
Happy bunny day
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=222935)
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Shives on 4 Apr 2021, 06:37 pm

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=222939)


Wow... no matter how I upload, it keeps getting turned. Apologies.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: corndog71 on 4 Apr 2021, 09:39 pm

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=222950)


I redrew it so it made more sense.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Nebander on 12 May 2021, 11:46 am
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=222950)


I redrew it so it made more sense.
I just finished another one of the Jamo Classic 8 crossovers. One component, one separation, and a lot of wires later the finished speaker sounds so much better!

The jaggedness and saw-like quality are totally gone and the sound is super smooth and natural. Even when playing these speakers in stereo, the sound image is much fuller and live-like on the fixed speaker side.

Thank you guys for the input! I fully recommend the upgrades to xovers.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: dbog on 19 Jun 2021, 06:02 am
I'm not sure what the problem is, but I don't see any images of the process outlined by Danny on the crossover assembly.  Is there a setting that I need to change on the site?  I'm using a Chromebook if that has any bearing on the issue.  Thanks
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Hobbsmeerkat on 19 Jun 2021, 02:15 pm
When Danny switched his server, all of his pics stopped working properly, unfortunately.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: dbog on 19 Jun 2021, 05:27 pm
Thank you.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: chenson on 2 Jul 2021, 07:14 pm

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=226399)

Hello everyone! I’m new to this and not an engineer - I’m more of a visual thinker. I like to sketch out problems as I work on them. I’m trying to put together a crossover for an NX Studio build. Is anyone able to confirm this sketch? Does it look right? I’m especially uncertain about that bundle in the middle where some negatives and a positive connect to the same point (see the question mark). I’m not confident in my ability to interpret the crossover schematic included with my kit and the photos people have posted have been helpful but a little blurry.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Hobbsmeerkat on 3 Jul 2021, 12:31 am
Yup! That's correct! :thumb:
Its just weird because the polarity is reversed vs the woofer and that throws a lot of people off.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: chenson on 3 Jul 2021, 12:48 am
Thanks! That makes sense. I had a vague idea that it was an intentional phase flip. I have a preamp (a ModWright LS100) that changes the phase so I either have to manage it with DSP or flip my speaker wire inputs. This layout made me think of that.

I could leave it there… I’m happy that it will work… but I’m curious and I’d like to learn. Why the phase change? Is that a characteristic of all crossovers? Or is it just this particular tweeter needs a phase change? Or does it have something to do with the timing between the tweeter and the woofer - similar to how you might adjust the integration of a sub with the phase?
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: corndog71 on 3 Jul 2021, 01:20 am
That’s a cool drawing.  I like to draw out my designs too.

This was an amp circuit I reimagined.

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=226429)
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: chenson on 3 Jul 2021, 12:36 pm
Very nice drawing. It’s always interesting to see how people draw their projects or sketch out their problems. In my day job I work as a UX designer and I sometimes run workshops with software engineers and project managers. Some of the workshop exercises involve a lot of quick sketches. When people can get over their fear that they can’t draw the results are almost always fruitful. I’m less technical myself so I find complex detailed technical drawings fascinating.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: cjsailer on 10 Jul 2021, 03:50 pm
Hello, hopefully someone can peer review my crossover layout for the NX Otica.  I'm mostly wondering about the orientation of inductors relative to one another.  I don't know what the field direction is on that laminated inductor in the lower right of the image.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=226721)
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Chewbacca on 10 Jul 2021, 04:46 pm
Hello, hopefully someone can peer review my crossover layout for the NX Otica.  I'm mostly wondering about the orientation of inductors relative to one another.  I don't know what the field direction is on that laminated inductor in the lower right of the image.

Hi cjsailer! Everything looks correct to me, but I think you may have an issue with the bottom orientation like you suspect. To the best of my knowledge the field orientation for the iron core follows the coils around. You may have interaction between your large foil and the iron core. Also - I don't think I'd want that little tang of iron sitting right next to the foil either. Magnetic metal right next to the foil inductor spells a no-no in my head.


(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=226726)


For others reference I'm going to reinsert this here as well:


(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=226727)


I believe you have the equivalent of #4/5.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: cjsailer on 10 Jul 2021, 05:20 pm
Thanks Chewy, I think I'll stand that laminated inductor on end (vertically) and move it close to front by the positive in lead.  There'll be plenty of space between the two inductors then.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: mlundy57 on 11 Jul 2021, 01:13 am
Here's how I built it

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=226751)
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: E-Zee on 12 Jul 2021, 05:28 am
The NX-otica is moderately complex and being open back with skeletonized support shelves, splitting the components to two boards is less than ideal. Further complicating it are the multiple versions existing. I dont know all the revisions but some earlier versions had 4 inductors.  Current with the newer tweeter has 5.
 I like the idea of mounting the large iron-core inductor on the underside of the bottom support shelf. That would give more space on main board, remove some potential for crosstalk between inductors, and the iron core in underside would be mostly hidden.  Here's pictures of the Otica I'm working on designing layout for today.  I haven't settled on anything but the right side I think is problem free. Im still playing with a couple variations on the left side inductors.  Debating Ironcore laying down vs standing up. Debating switching the iron core with the other inductor on left side.  Currently the stagger left to right and max space left to right is the best I can come up with for today.   Sometimes sleeping on it helps.  Hopefully tomorrow I'll wake up fresh with a good idea. 
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=226798)

Here is an earlier conductor variants as I was evolving through the process.  This is one of those situations where with all 5 inductors on board you must pick the least harmful layout as there will unavoidably be some minor conflict. There's no ideal solution I see without removing the iron core from the board.  Pull it off and mount it on the cabinet somewhere else and I think you are conflict free.

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=226799)

Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Chewbacca on 12 Jul 2021, 01:56 pm
Hey E-Zee, I've been working on the same layout for a little bit of time now, and I came across the same issue as you with the Iron Core.

This is my finalized layout that I ended up going with (don't mind the mess):

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=226803)

There may be some interaction between the larger inductor on the tweeter circuit and the iron core, but at this point it's a battle of the least amount of evil and I think I should be good.

I'm going to wrap the one positive lead you see around the paired resistors and solder that to the tube connector. These are the only leads from the positive terminal.

On the negative terminal one lead will go straight out and catch the tweeter circuit. The other lead will go under the sonicap bundle and catch the smaller sonicap on the negative lead to the woofer circuit.

Should be pretty clean all said and done. I wanted to have it all mocked this weekend, but ran out of time. Maybe have it fully together this week. I just don't want to solder any leads on that go to the speakers yet, because I don't know exact lengths without the cabs being done.

I think the tweeter circuit alone turned out pretty nice (still need to trim a couple pieces... want to wait until after solder):

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=226804)
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Badd99 on 13 Jul 2021, 07:07 pm
Hey guys can someone give me the dimensions of their board they are using for the nx otica? I have all the kits still in boxes as I don't have my music room dine yet but would like to do the crossovers now. Thanks!

Also - for the nx otica I'm planning to change the tweeter inductors to foils and use path resistors.

Anyone thinking about changing out the erse cap on the tweeter?

I also am going to bypass the sonic caps in the tweeter and mids with a vcap odam 0.1
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Chewbacca on 16 Jul 2021, 02:05 pm
Hey guys can someone give me the dimensions of their board they are using for the nx otica? I have all the kits still in boxes as I don't have my music room dine yet but would like to do the crossovers now. Thanks!

Also - for the nx otica I'm planning to change the tweeter inductors to foils and use path resistors.

Anyone thinking about changing out the erse cap on the tweeter?

I also am going to bypass the sonic caps in the tweeter and mids with a vcap odam 0.1

Hi Badd99,

Unfortunately I don't have my boards with me, but a took a couple minutes to quickly draw something up based on some dims I have on my phone:

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=227019)

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=gallery;area=browse;image=227019;size=huge

I'd probably do something like 10" (back width) 5.25" (front width) 14" (depth).

Basically:

Widths: size of the shelf - .25"x2 (dado) - 1"x2 (no-rez) - tolerance

Depth: size of shelf - .25" (dado) - tolerance

Hope that helps! :thumb:
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: nwviking on 16 Jul 2021, 04:24 pm
Hi All! New here and doing my first GR Research build of the X-LS Encore. I've done 2 other non-GR DIY builds but am still learning about crossovers. Hoping to get a set of eyes on this layout before I solder. I looked through this thread and others but couldn't find any reference with the same parts I have. I got the Miflex Copper Bypass Capacitor upgrade.

I will post pics of the speakers when they are finished :)

Thanks!


(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=227024)
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: E-Zee on 17 Jul 2021, 05:27 pm
Nwviking-

You do have a couple likely conflicts there that I can see.  I'm sending you a private message with my phone number.  Give me a call or text and I'll walk you through sorting it out.

Update: I tried to message you but your new status isn't letting you receive private messages yet.

 Email me at elon@ezeescrossovers.com

and I'll send you a roughly to scale layout drawing including the wiring connections and you can just replicate that physically.

Your current layout orients the inductors in a way that they will experience some negative interference from each other, and one of your bypass caps and resistors concerns me, maybe wrong, but not certain since I can't tell exactly what your intended connections will be. 

Elon

ezeescrossovers.com (http://ezeescrossovers.com)
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: WarmColors on 21 Aug 2021, 11:45 pm
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=222903)





Looking to see if this is correct?.. Thanks

Is this layout for the NX studio?
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Hobbsmeerkat on 22 Aug 2021, 02:21 am
Is this layout for the NX studio?

It's an X-LS crossover.
NX-Studios only have one Miflex cap in the tweeter circuit.
Title: Re: Crossover assembly 101
Post by: Frodo on 22 Aug 2021, 04:24 pm
Nice drawing, and very helpful, thanks!
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=226399)

Hello everyone! I’m new to this and not an engineer - I’m more of a visual thinker. I like to sketch out problems as I work on them. I’m trying to put together a crossover for an NX Studio build. Is anyone able to confirm this sketch? Does it look right? I’m especially uncertain about that bundle in the middle where some negatives and a positive connect to the same point (see the question mark). I’m not confident in my ability to interpret the crossover schematic included with my kit and the photos people have posted have been helpful but a little blurry.

Thanks!