[DMurphy]

I have a pair of RAALs that I am not using for a few weeks.  Need some to test?

Really?  They're really rare.  At least the OEM version is, which is what we would be auditioning.  I believe Jim got one in last week.  But thanks for the offer.  And you're fortunate I don't need to take you up on it.  My list of driver homicides is increasing exponentially.  Pop sizzle bam.

[zybar]

I love that Acuton ceramic mid-range driver that is in many great sounding, but very expensive speakers.

George

I just did a design with the 3" midrange.  Very smooth, but it can't go below 850 Hz.  I know.  I burned up one trying.

I was thinking of their larger 5" or 7" designs.

George

[doug s.]

..Any other suggestions for mid and tweet...?

i would suggest listening to the hi-vi research planar isodynamic tweeters.  i heard these in a pair of swans loudspeakers, and a pair of coincident research victory's.  (tho coincident says their's are different than oem.)  these give some of the best hi freqeuncy sound i have ever heard.  extremely smooth and extremely detailed.  excellent horizontal dispersion, mediocre wertical dispersion...

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=297-406


same as above, but different mounting:
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=297-407


(these should have better wertical dispersion than the ones mentioned above, which are what i have heard...):
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=297-404


doug s.

[TF1216]

I had the opportunity to hear the RAAL OEM ribbons inside of a car just a few weeks ago.  They sounded very nice indeed.  

The offer is on the table if you would like to test the RAALs Dennis.  I have 3 spare elements fyi.  I have a pair of 140-70D ribbons.

I think these tweeters will work magnificently with the Accutons George is talking about.  

[DMurphy]

..Any other suggestions for mid and tweet...?

i would suggest listening to the hi-vi research planar isodynamic tweeters.  i heard these in a pair of swans loudspeakers, and a pair of coincident research victory's.  (tho coincident says their's are different than oem.)  these give some of the best hi freqeuncy sound i have ever heard.  extremely smooth and extremely detailed.  excellent horizontal dispersion, mediocre wertical dispersion...

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=297-406


same as above, but different mounting:
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=297-407


(these should have better wertical dispersion than the ones mentioned above, which are what i have heard...):
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=297-404


doug s.


Memories..........I used that drive in my first diy design.   It won a crossover contest back in 2000, when there was less competition.  It's best crossed quite high, so it would depend on the choice of midrange.  But I have one, and I'll certainly compare it with the RAAL.

[DMurphy]

I love that Acuton ceramic mid-range driver that is in many great sounding, but very expensive speakers.

George

I just did a design with the 3" midrange.  Very smooth, but it can't go below 850 Hz.  I know.  I burned up one trying.

I was thinking of their larger 5" or 7" designs.

George

The issue there is whether the larger ones offer any advantage over the Seas Excels.  They measure very similarly, and listening tests at last year's Iowa DIY didn't pick a clear winner when the Dave Ellis 1801 was played in two forms--one with the 7" Excel and one with the 7" Accuton. 

[TF1216]

Dennis,

Were you opinions of the AudioTechnology driver you tested of mine positive enough for the ht4?

Any thought of using the ATC 3" dome?

[doug s.]

...Memories..........I used that drive in my first diy design.   It won a crossover contest back in 2000, when there was less competition.  It's best crossed quite high, so it would depend on the choice of midrange.  But I have one, and I'll certainly compare it with the RAAL...

the swans m1.2, which i owned & then sold to my step brother, is a 2-way design using the hi-vi f6 midwoofer, good to ~5khz or so.  not sure where it was crossed over, but i suspect somewhere ~3khz.  that speaker's upper range was exemplary; it was in fact in the low & mid-bass where it was let down, as it was a bit fat.  those speakers actually sounded better crossed over at 125hz to my vmps larger subs, then at, say, 80hz.

on the coincident victory's, the planar tweets are crossed at ~5khz, where there was certainly no issues due to them not being crossed high enough.

nice eton mids on the victory too, if you want another thing to explore.  tho i don't think eton makes that dome mid anymore, they do make other nice drivers - the meret re's i own have an eton 7" midwoof that is excellent, imo.  and, eton also makes a heil amt that might be worth looking at...

doug s.

[DMurphy]

What woofer has been decided on?

Thanks

Better not say.  But it will have a familiar look.

[DMurphy]

the swans m1.2, which i owned & then sold to my step brother, is a 2-way design using the hi-vi f6 midwoofer, good to ~5khz or so.  not sure where it was crossed over, but i suspect somewhere ~3khz.  that speaker's upper range was exemplary; it was in fact in the low & mid-bass where it was let down, as it was a bit fat.  those speakers actually sounded better crossed over at 125hz to my vmps larger subs, then at, say, 80hz.
doug s.
[/quote]

I never heard the m1.2     But I did actually buy the M1 kit with the f5.  It had zero baffle step compensation. Zippo.  And it sounded like it.  I also had problems with the F5's midrange response.  So I chucked the F5, substituted the Scan 5" revelator, and designed a new crossover.   That was the speaker that won DIY 2000. 

[DMurphy]

Dennis,

Were you opinions of the AudioTechnology driver you tested of mine positive enough for the ht4?

Any thought of using the ATC 3" dome?

I don't remember much about your AT.  My general reaction has been that the whole line is beautifully built, but very expensive. And I'm not thrilled about poly woofers.  I don't know anything about the ATC dome.  Again, it's a question of how low it can go.  It would have to mate with a 12" woofer. 

[doug s.]

I never heard the m1.2     But I did actually buy the M1 kit with the f5.  It had zero baffle step compensation. Zippo.  And it sounded like it.  I also had problems with the F5's midrange response.  So I chucked the F5, substituted the Scan 5" revelator, and designed a new crossover.   That was the speaker that won DIY 2000. 

i know psychicanimal, who used to post here, bought a pair of m1's and sent them to dan wright for full-tilt mods, including cryo of everything.  he loves them now.  afaik, the bigger tweets in the  m1.2 are better than what's used in the m1, but this is from second-hand info, not from 1st hand experience...

doug s.

[grenamc]

Which Revelator tweeter are you guys speaking of?  (9900, Ring Radiator, 7100, 6600 or the new Illuminators)

I think to many the dome tweeter would be a step backwards.  I personally love the AirCirc (6600) tweeter from ScanSpeak.  I would like to see the ht4 consist of a RAAL tweeter, possibly a dome mid (ATC) or AudioTechnology mid and a bass driver designed specifically for the ht4.  Staying with a 3-way should keep costs at a level that will bring in new customers for Salk Sound as well as attract the old ones.  To really compete with the Vandersteen 5A I think the ht4 would have to become a 4-way speaker.  No? 

Good point.  The Ring Radiator was in two of the designs I have heard and I thought it was a magical tweeter, though admittedly quite expensive and probably like a ribbon somewhat difficult to integrate.  The others were domes "customized" for the manufacturer.  What "customized" means is up to interpretation.  I would say the domes never had the detail retrieval of the RingRadiator, but all of them exhibit a sweetness that I would not consider inaccurate, just pleasant on the ears.

-Michael

[Nuance]

Since we've been talking about suggestions and comparing the to Vandersteen 5A's, I thought it would be interesting to post the information on the new Vandersteen Model 7's that are in pre-production. 

"Vandersteen Audio has a new flagship, the Model 7. They are going to be unveiled at CES in production form. There isn't a set price yet, but they are going to be over $40K. The are going to be smaller than the 5A's thanks to a 45 degree taper in the front of the speaker. All this is a mix of Richards description and a doodle he made on a napkin, which at this time, is the only picture that he has released to the public. The funny thing is that he has gotten two ordes on doodle alone.

Now on to the goods, the drivers are Carbon Fiber. Richard basically explained that his dream was to develope a speaker where all the drivers were completely pistonic, and all made of the same material. At this time, there are a few high end tweeters that can achieve that, but midrange and woofers have not been developed to be fully pistonic. His new material is about as close as it gets. It is a cone with carbone fiber and bucky balls sandwiching balsa wood for critical dampening.  You can actually stand on the cone without damaging it. Also, it takes 18s day to build each one. At that point, they are shipped off to Denmark for assembly at, I believe, Scanspeak.

Richard explained that he had a cone with him at the first stop on his tour where he introduced the Model 7's and realized that he couldn't pass it around because it cost $2200. On top of that, he also mentioned that a gram of bucky balls costs $2000. Also, the Cabinet of the 7 is made of carbon fiber. I didn't think that I would ever call a $40K speaker a bargain, but the 7 really seems to be. Just as a compairison, the components in the $4000 model three actually cost more expensive then the components in the $34K Wilson Watt Puppy.

Oh yeah, as far as the bottom end on the 7, it will be the same push pull 2 design with 11 band eq like in the 5a. I'm sure I left out a bunch, but thats all I could think of off the top of my head."

Carbon fiber sounds cool.  Any chance that is going to happen with the new Salk's?

[satfrat]

Since we've been talking about suggestions and comparing the to Vandersteen 5A's, I thought it would be interesting to post the information on the new Vandersteen Model 7's that are in pre-production. 

"Vandersteen Audio has a new flagship, the Model 7. They are going to be unveiled at CES in production form. There isn't a set price yet, but they are going to be over $40K. The are going to be smaller than the 5A's thanks to a 45 degree taper in the front of the speaker. All this is a mix of Richards description and a doodle he made on a napkin, which at this time, is the only picture that he has released to the public. The funny thing is that he has gotten two ordes on doodle alone.

Now on to the goods, the drivers are Carbon Fiber. Richard basically explained that his dream was to develope a speaker where all the drivers were completely pistonic, and all made of the same material. At this time, there are a few high end tweeters that can achieve that, but midrange and woofers have not been developed to be fully pistonic. His new material is about as close as it gets. It is a cone with carbone fiber and bucky balls sandwiching balsa wood for critical dampening.  You can actually stand on the cone without damaging it. Also, it takes 18s day to build each one. At that point, they are shipped off to Denmark for assembly at, I believe, Scanspeak.

Richard explained that he had a cone with him at the first stop on his tour where he introduced the Model 7's and realized that he couldn't pass it around because it cost $2200. On top of that, he also mentioned that a gram of bucky balls costs $2000. Also, the Cabinet of the 7 is made of carbon fiber. I didn't think that I would ever call a $40K speaker a bargain, but the 7 really seems to be. Just as a compairison, the components in the $4000 model three actually cost more expensive then the components in the $34K Wilson Watt Puppy.

Oh yeah, as far as the bottom end on the 7, it will be the same push pull 2 design with 11 band eq like in the 5a. I'm sure I left out a bunch, but thats all I could think of off the top of my head."

Carbon fiber sounds cool.  Any chance that is going to happen with the new Salk's?

Vandersteen is also offering to do upgrades on Model 5A's bring them up to a Model 7 for original owners who bought from an authorized dealer. So how much different can the model 7 actually be (from a cabinet point of view) if the 5A can be upgraded to 7 Status?

Cheers,
Robin

[DMurphy]

I think there are already a lot of carbon fiber drivers out there.  Bucky balls--not so much.  In any event, I doubt that the HT4 will venture quite so far into the region of diminishing returns. 

[Nuance]

Vandersteen is also offering to do upgrades on Model 5A's bring them up to a Model 7 for original owners who bought from an authorized dealer. So how much different can the model 7 actually be (from a cabinet point of view) if the 5A can be upgraded to 7 Status?

Cheers,
Robin

Hmm...that's weird.  From what I read it sounds like an entirely new design.  I wonder how they'll do that.  Odd...

You sure it's just not a trade-up program?

I think there are already a lot of carbon fiber drivers out there.  Bucky balls--not so much.  In any event, I doubt that the HT4 will venture quite so far into the region of diminishing returns. 

I figured, but I had to ask.  I'd expect you guys to keep the price way below the 40K+ asking price of the Vandersteen Model 7's. 

[satfrat]

Vandersteen is also offering to do upgrades on Model 5A's bring them up to a Model 7 for original owners who bought from an authorized dealer. So how much different can the model 7 actually be (from a cabinet point of view) if the 5A can be upgraded to 7 Status?

Cheers,
Robin

Hmm...that's weird.  From what I read it sounds like an entirely new design.  I wonder how they'll do that.  Odd...

You sure it's just not a trade-up program?

I think there are already a lot of carbon fiber drivers out there.  Bucky balls--not so much.  In any event, I doubt that the HT4 will venture quite so far into the region of diminishing returns. 

I figured, but I had to ask.  I'd expect you guys to keep the price way below the 40K+ asking price of the Vandersteen Model 7's. 

That came from Richard Vandersteen's own mouth during the seminar I attended. Biggest question from 5A owners was "what would you do to my 5A to justify $23k in upgrades?" The answer that comes to my mind has already been uttered by Dennis about the possible HT3 upgrades: " In any event, I doubt that the HT4 will venture quite so far into the region of diminishing returns."   

In todays world I'm not sure how many 5A owners would want to take a $23K hit for diminishing returns,,,,, except for George (Zybar) maybe.

Cheers,
Robin
 
 

[zybar]

Vandersteen is also offering to do upgrades on Model 5A's bring them up to a Model 7 for original owners who bought from an authorized dealer. So how much different can the model 7 actually be (from a cabinet point of view) if the 5A can be upgraded to 7 Status?

Cheers,
Robin

Hmm...that's weird.  From what I read it sounds like an entirely new design.  I wonder how they'll do that.  Odd...

You sure it's just not a trade-up program?

I think there are already a lot of carbon fiber drivers out there.  Bucky balls--not so much.  In any event, I doubt that the HT4 will venture quite so far into the region of diminishing returns. 

I figured, but I had to ask.  I'd expect you guys to keep the price way below the 40K+ asking price of the Vandersteen Model 7's. 

That came from Richard Vandersteen's own mouth during the seminar I attended. Biggest question from 5A owners was "what would you do to my 5A to justify $23k in upgrades?" The answer that comes to my mind has already been uttered by Dennis about the possible HT3 upgrades: " In any event, I doubt that the HT4 will venture quite so far into the region of diminishing returns."   

In todays world I'm not sure how many 5A owners would want to take a $23K hit for diminishing returns,,,,, except for George (Zybar) maybe.

Cheers,
Robin

Not even this madman would go that route (unless I would win the lottery).

George

[Rocket]

Hi Guys,

I don't own a pair of HT3's but do own veracity HT2's.

Some comments regarding 'Bright' top end and thin midrange concern me.  The speakers that I have utilise an lcy ribbon tweeter (i've been told it has the same performance as the AC tweeter) and there is no way that it is bright.  If you use substandard components or poor quality software that may be the case.

My speaker use the same midrange as the HT3's and the midrange is great and I definitely wouldn't call it thin.  You can't build a speaker for everyones tastes.

I have heard the raven ribbon tweeter and accuton midrange combination and it is very good.  I hear that there is a new raven tweeter with wider dispersion than the r1.  The lcy is a pretty good tweeter though.

Regards

Rod