Scan-Speak Reference

Fenomeno · « **Reply #80 on:** 24 Jul 2006, 07:51 pm »

I jumped on the merry-go-round of amplifier swapping after getting a handle on the SSR's capabilities, etc.... I have since switched to the Odyssey Stratos Extreme Stereo. This amplifier seems a wonderful match with these speakers. The ribbon tweeter and Scanspeak woofer really seem to like the high current delivery of this amp. This change was initiated after I swapped an old high current Parasound amplifer in place of the Quicksilver tube amp.

It is my opinion that these speakers really do support the theory you can never have too much power. Although the use of this amp is like hitting a tack with a sledgehammer (it is, trust me on this one), the results are an effortless presentation, huge soundstage and lots of listenability. I have not heard many stand mount two ways that can deliver what these speakers are capable of delivering.

The speaker definately has a little of that warmth to the bass that is very inviting. The lower midrange is similar. The upper end on top is sweet and slightly restrained....a characteristic of the Odyssey perhaps, but it exists nonetheless. It is an inviting sound. It is very dynamic, however, the ultimate difference between silence and full blown ffff I have heard bettered....for muchos dineros....and not in a stand mount two way. Again, for a speaker of this size, get ready for some dynamic sound.

I think, even after switching amplifiers, that my earlier assesment was correct of these speakers. They have transparency limitations (could be a source derived limitation) and they have dynamic limits (though I expect anyone using these in a room larger than my 14x24x9' would know that a stand mounted two way would have its limits in mid-larger rooms). They are no slouches in this regard, but not the last word either.

With solid state amplification they are an incredibly hard to beat two way stand mount with excellent imaging capabilities, wonderful driver integration, extended bottom end, good detail and listenability.

Has anyone else purchased, listened, or written any comments regarding these speakers? I am curious as it helps me better establish my system bias...etc...

Darren, any word yet?

DSK · « **Reply #81 on:** 25 Jul 2006, 09:42 am »

Hi James,
Not yet. 6 Sealer/primer/undercoats are on and sanded. 3 enamel top coats are on, except for the bottom side which I will do over the next week. Will then sand smooth and determine whether to do more top coats. Leave it to cure for a week or so and I can then FINALLY start to wire it up. It has been a lloooooonnnnngggg process!

obiwan11 · « **Reply #82 on:** 24 Sep 2006, 07:27 am »

Hi Rick,

How does the SSR compare to your 3 way monitors? I have a DEQX so my next speaker I wouldn't want a crossover, just 3 pairs (or 2 pairs) of binding posts at the back leading straight to the drivers. A sealed design to blend with my sub.

Thanks

DSK · « **Reply #83 on:** 24 Sep 2006, 08:09 am »

If anyone is still waiting for my impressions of the sealed SSR's ... I'm STILL not finished!

I'm currently wet sanding my boxes in preparation for the final coat. I don't have spraying equipment and have been unable to get a completely brush mark free finish, so this time I am going to try a very short nap mohair roller. If I don't like the slightly textured finish from the roller it will only need a light wet sand to get it totally smooth again, and then I'll polish it up. It has been cold here in Melbourne, so I have been leaving several weeks for coats to properly cure before sanding. It is starting to get a little warmer now and I'll probably leave the final coat to cure for a couple of weeks before final assembly. I'm currently modifying some stands that will put the SSR's at the optimum listening height. After breaking the SSR's in for 100 hours or so, I'll rigorously compare them against my current speakers.

The reason I've put so much work into these boxes, is that the combination of these drivers and a Rick Craig crossover with deluxe parts promises to be very special speaker indeed. Especially sealed and optimally blended with a fast and musical sealed subwoofer.

obiwan11 · « **Reply #84 on:** 24 Sep 2006, 10:13 am »

DSK, I'll be very interested to see how you find the speakers. I'm in Aus too, Brisbane here.

audiojerry · « **Reply #85 on:** 25 Sep 2006, 01:22 pm »

So we are getting colder - heading towards winter, and you are getting warmer. How cold has it gotten and how warm will it get?

Have you tried thinnig your urethane/varnish, or whatever product you are using with some mineral spirits so it doesn't go on as thickly. This has helped me in the past with eliminating brush strokes.

Please post photos when you are done.

DSK · « **Reply #86 on:** 26 Sep 2006, 12:49 am »

Hi Jerry, I'll PM you as I don't wish to hijack Rick's thread with building/painting trials and tribulations.

DSK · « **Reply #87 on:** 15 Oct 2006, 02:30 pm »

Well, FINALLY I have got my SSR's up and running!

They are the sealed version with the 'Deluxe' crossovers, 1" cabinets plus significant bracing, just under 0.5lb polyfill per 20L box, xo's mounted in a separate sealed cavity in the bottom of the cabinet with damping material between xo board and panel, 3 rigid feet for rigid coupling to stands and 3 spikes between stand plinths and floor.

I fired them up tonight and have only been running them for about 2 hours, so I'll defer a full critique until I've put some hours on them and got a good grip on them. Until then, I am using them without subwoofer in my 24' x 19' x 9' room.

For now, I have just 'thrown' them between my current speakers (approx 7' apart, 13' from listener and firing straight ahead, approx 4' from wall behind and 6' from side walls). Custom stands put the speaker at the ideal height for my listening seat but I haven't even measured and matched distances from speakers to listener yet.

However, even at this early point, I can relay a few initial impressions after playing a variety of music through my SqueezeBox....

1) they are a VERY well balanced speaker.
2) they throw an excellent wall of sound (with surprising height and depth)
3) they image beautifully
4) they have a lovely body/palpability and a very quiet background
5) they have excellent detail (backup singers are easy to follow rather than just being hinted at)
6) despite their low rated sensitivity of 83-84db, early volume levels seem to be around the same as my current speakers (rated 89db/2.83v/1m)
7) the music just seems to 'flow' very naturally
8.) despite their small size, they easily fill my large-ish room even without subwoofer (though with an F3 of 55hz they miss the lowest frequencies) and don't sound thin or lightweight.

I actually expected them to sound quite muddy and constrained for the first several dozen hours. They did sound a little constrained for the first hour, then started to relax and open up.

Well, that's a longer teaser than I intended to write. I will write a more thorough review in a month or so.

If these speakers continue to improve over the next 100 hours or so (as Fenomeno found), it will be truly remarkable.

Many thanks to Rick for answering my countless questions over the last several months. The SSR is looking very promising and already performing way beyond its price point.

Rick Craig · « **Reply #88 on:** 16 Oct 2006, 04:55 pm »

Quote from: DSK on 15 Oct 2006, 02:30 pm

Well, FINALLY I have got my SSR's up and running!

They are the sealed version with the 'Deluxe' crossovers, 1" cabinets plus significant bracing, just under 0.5lb polyfill per 20L box, xo's mounted in a separate sealed cavity in the bottom of the cabinet with damping material between xo board and panel, 3 rigid feet for rigid coupling to stands and 3 spikes between stand plinths and floor.

I fired them up tonight and have only been running them for about 2 hours, so I'll defer a full critique until I've put some hours on them and got a good grip on them. Until then, I am using them without subwoofer in my 24' x 19' x 9' room.

For now, I have just 'thrown' them between my current speakers (approx 7' apart, 13' from listener and firing straight ahead, approx 4' from wall behind and 6' from side walls). Custom stands put the speaker at the ideal height for my listening seat but I haven't even measured and matched distances from speakers to listener yet.

However, even at this early point, I can relay a few initial impressions after playing a variety of music through my SqueezeBox....

1) they are a VERY well balanced speaker.
2) they throw an excellent wall of sound (with surprising height and depth)
3) they image beautifully
4) they have a lovely body/palpability and a very quiet background
5) they have excellent detail (backup singers are easy to follow rather than just being hinted at)
6) despite their low rated sensitivity of 83-84db, early volume levels seem to be around the same as my current speakers (rated 89db/2.83v/1m)
7) the music just seems to 'flow' very naturally
8.) despite their small size, they easily fill my large-ish room even without subwoofer (though with an F3 of 55hz they miss the lowest frequencies) and don't sound thin or lightweight.

I actually expected them to sound quite muddy and constrained for the first several dozen hours. They did sound a little constrained for the first hour, then started to relax and open up.

Well, that's a longer teaser than I intended to write. I will write a more thorough review in a month or so.

If these speakers continue to improve over the next 100 hours or so (as Fenomeno found), it will be truly remarkable.

Many thanks to Rick for answering my countless questions over the last several months. The SSR is looking very promising and already performing way beyond its price point.

I appreciate your kind comments and look forward to your full review.

Rick

DSK · « **Reply #89 on:** 17 Oct 2006, 01:17 pm »

Pics of the SSR's during building, completed and 'in situ' are here ... http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=gallery;area=browse;user=234

audiojerry · « **Reply #90 on:** 17 Oct 2006, 03:29 pm »

Beautifully done, DSK - great workmanship, great photos, and very nice dedicated listening room.
Congratulations -

- I hope it was fun
How does it sound without the subs?
Can you describe how you took those impressive measurements?

DSK · « **Reply #91 on:** 17 Oct 2006, 10:56 pm »

Quote from: audiojerry on 17 Oct 2006, 03:29 pm

Beautifully done, DSK - great workmanship, great photos, and very nice dedicated listening room.
Congratulations - - I hope it was fun
How does it sound without the subs?
Can you describe how you took those impressive measurements?

Hi Jerry!
Yes, it was fun, but took me way too long. However, I learned stuff along the way that would make it quicker next time .... hang on .... NEXT time? Nooooooooooooooo!

Ssshhhhhh ... don't tell my wife it is a 'dedicated' listening room. It is actually our formal living room. She knew about my obsession before we married and has to compromise (as do I) given that it is a shared purpose room. Our house search took longer as we needed to find a decent 'dual purpose' room.

The SSR's are sounding great without the sub ... surpisingly so given the size of the room and the fact that it is open (behind listener's left shoulder) to a long hallway and staircase. On most tracks, the sound is quite full and convincing without the sub. However, there are some tracks (eg. Patricia Barber's 'Guilty Pleasures' on the Verse album) with quite deep bass that is just hinted at. Remember that these are the sealed SSR version (F3 of 55hz). They began to open up and smooth out yesterday but still only 15 hours on them. They are just so coherent, refined and well balanced that adding the sub later is going to fill in the last octave and provide a wonderfully even response from 20hz to 40khz. Some people describe paper woofers as 'warm' and 'coloured' but so far I'm finding the SSR's to be very neutral, transparent, detailed and dynamic. Moreso than my ribbon speakers.

Measurements? If you mean the off-axis response graph in my gallery, that is Rick's measurement. Once my SSR's are fully broken in, I will take some measurements with ETF5 and integrate the sub.

Today I go into hospital for a shoulder operation then to my parents for a few days to get doted on and give my wife a break. I'm told my arm may be in a sling for up to a month, so I'll be doing lots of listening but probably little typing ... perhaps some short, left handed updates

drmike · « **Reply #92 on:** 18 Oct 2006, 12:24 pm »

nice job dsk! i've been anxiously awaiting your comments. any chance of getting the box dimensions?
thanks,
dr mike

DSK · « **Reply #93 on:** 29 Oct 2006, 06:05 am »

Just back from my parents. The shoulder was worse than thought and ended up being a reconstruction more or less. So I'm in a sling for 6 weeks and typing slowly with my left hand.

Still loving the SSR's and shaking my head in disbelief at how well balanced, refined, coherent and musical they sound. Excellent imaging, soundstaging, palpability, detail, tonal balance, and PRAT. Even more surprising is how clean and well behaved they remain when pushed fairly hard in a large-ish room without a subwoofer ... remember that these are sealed with an F3 of 55hz and built to be used with my sub. Of course they don't have much energy in the lowest notes, but the weight and fullness of most music is terrific. These are going to be fantastic with the subwoofer (when I dial it in after break in), with a very even response from 20hz to 40khz. I have pairs of HP filters (65hz & 85hz) to try, but the SSR's remain so clean when running full range and pushed hard, that my gut instinct suggests that I'll end up leaving them to run full range when I add the sub. These sealed SSR's play much bigger than their size suggests and, with a suitable subwoofer (properly dialled in) will provide full range sound that is bigger, deeper and more effortless than most 3-ways can achieve, with the benefit of one less xo.

The SSR's really are a reference monitor and are ridiculously good at the price Rick charges. In fact, I daresay that a lot of people would dismiss them simply because they are too cheap to be any good! Just remember that this SS 8531G Revelator driver is superior to the legendary SS 8545 that has been used in many $4k-15k speakers, the Fountek CD3 ribbon is as good as the Ravens and AC ribbons and even (to my ears) the SS ring radiator, and you get a xo designed, built and tested by Rick Craig that uses top parts (Sonicaps, Mills, Alpha-Core) ... now look at the price and I think you'll agree that the SSR is one of the best bargains out there. Of course, the proof is in the listening, and it is a great pity that back ordered parts prevented Rick from taking a set to RMAF for people to hear.

If you don't have a huge room and/or listen at extreme dB levels, there is something magical about a top notch 2-way that uses premium drivers, xo design & parts, and a well constructed box. A coherence and transparency that surpasses most 3-ways. Sometimes simpler IS better.

Quote from: drmike on 18 Oct 2006, 12:24 pm

nice job dsk! i've been anxiously awaiting your comments. any chance of getting the box dimensions?
thanks,
dr mike

Hi DrMike,
Yes, just post here if you buy the SSR kit and wish to build a 'sealed' pair and I'll dig out the info for you.

Rocket · « **Reply #94 on:** 30 Oct 2006, 11:13 pm »

Hi Darren,

What subwoofer do you use in your system? Glad your speakers have worked out so well. Have you thought about having the speakers spray painted? I'm not happy with the finish of my speakers and have had a quote for $150 to refinish them in high gloss black.

I hope your shoulder goes well. I know what its like to type with one hand.

Regards

Rod

DSK · « **Reply #95 on:** 31 Oct 2006, 01:28 am »

Thanks Rod. Although I have levelled the SSR's (using spirit level & plumb bob) & ensured they are equidistant from my listening seat, I have not tried moving them around or adding any toe-in yet to optimise their performance. So, their current performance is all the more impressive.

My shoulder prevents me from carrying one of my PC's downstairs to run ETF and integrate the sub, but I might do it roughly with just test tones & RS meter in the next few days.

I built my sub using the Rythmik DirectServo kit with modded amp ... sealed 2.0cu.ft. box, 1.5" MDF walls (box in box), full shelf braces support all panels, etc. It weighs 93lbs (42kg) so I won't be moving it anytime soon. Very flexible settings and is flat to 20hz in my room, selectable Q of 0.5, 0.7 or 0.9. Very quick, tight, articulate, clean & musical and easily outperformed my M&K MX-125, father's Velodyne, friend's Klipsch, or other models (Klipsch, B&W, REL, M&K, Yamaha etc) that I've heard in shops.

Don't be put off by the relatively low price of the Rythmik (or the SSR), after many years playing the upgrade game I've become a bit more savvy and trust my ears when they tell me that a relatively unknown and inexpensive component is better than a big name, high cost one. As a result, each purchase I have made over the past 5 years has actually decreased my total system value but improved performance. The big names have disappeared, and the system cost is about one third of what it was 5 years or so ago, but the music is far more real and enjoyable than what it was back then. Each component in my current system is a prime example of a component that equals or outperforms competitors costing many times more. Of course there are always 'better' components out there, but they either cost a fortune or are other giant killers that I haven't heard. Overall, I prefer the sound of my current system to some $60-80k systems I've heard. With additional mods (eg additional Bolder mods on SB2 & an Ultimate PS) I'm sure it can improve further.

I'm actually reasonably happy with the finish on the SSR's, the slight stipple has grown on me. Not looking to change it in the forseeable future.

drmike · « **Reply #96 on:** 31 Oct 2006, 05:53 pm »

hey dsk,
i placed the order with rick for the sealed ssr. would it be possible to get your ideas on the sealed box you built?
thanks for your time,
drmike

DSK · « **Reply #97 on:** 31 Oct 2006, 10:50 pm »

Quote from: drmike on 31 Oct 2006, 05:53 pm

hey dsk,
i placed the order with rick for the sealed ssr. would it be possible to get your ideas on the sealed box you built?
thanks for your time,
drmike

Congratulations drmike!

What are you upgrading from? What sub will you run them with? Did you spring for the Deluxe XO?

It will take me a little while to dig out and type up measurements and box design comments with one hand, but will PM them to you ASAP.

drmike · « **Reply #98 on:** 1 Nov 2006, 05:46 pm »

hello dsk,
right now i'm using a john k mini-monitor with an aci titan sub that i built.
i look foreward to receiving the info from you.
thanks,
drmike

drmike · « **Reply #99 on:** 1 Nov 2006, 05:48 pm »

hey dsk,
did go for the deluxe x/o
drmike