[Freo-1]

Go back and re-read the previous links posted, and you should be able to answer your question. 

If you understand how switching amps work, then you would not be asking about artifacts. 

Again, no information posted about how all the shortfalls with switching amps were addressed. 


Here is a unbiased assessment of switching amps (good and bad)

http://www.wpi.edu/Pubs/E-project/Available/E-project-041808-145643/unrestricted/report.pdf

[medium jim]

Cab:

Do you own a pair of Ncores?  A simple Y/N response is all that is required.

Jim

[medium jim]

Cab:

Question,  do you own a pair of Ncores?  This only requires a yes or no response. 

Jim

[cab]

Why due you ask?

I have owned or heard probably every class d amp that Bruno Putzeys has designed, from the SODA to the Ncore. The SODA was a pre-UCD design from his days at Phillips. It was never, as far as I know, released commercially. He sent me the gerber files and I had boards printed and built them.

I have owned or heard Spectron, Tripath, Icepower, and a few others I do not recall.

I have some experience with class d. I have also owned many conventional amps.

Have I made myself clear?

[medium jim]

Cab:

So where is your review of them and what did you compare them to out of curiosity?  Why the anger to anyone who doesn't share your favoritism for them?  You say those who don't agree with you are closed minded, how so?

I could go on and on about my amps and how after 50 years, still are considered by many to be one of the best amps in the world, at any price, but I would just bore the shat out of everyone. 

Jim

[cab]

Go back and re-read the previous links posted, and you should be able to answer your question. 

If you understand how switching amps work, then you would not be asking about artifacts. 

Again, no information posted about how all the shortfalls with switching amps were addressed.

I have read the article. It mentions nothing about artifacts. I assume you are talking about the carrier residual that is filtered out....

We can talk about the shortcomings of tube amps, solid state, class a, class b, class a/b, etc. There is no perfect amplifier. All classes have shortcomings. A good designer knows how to work around them. Ncore has a several new and novel approaches and again, based on the specs and reviews, it competes with the rest.

If you wish to discuss the particular shortcomings of the Ncore, please expound on all the shortfalls. Then perhaps they can be addressed.

[Freo-1]

Again, read the previous links.  There is NO inforamtion on how Ncore works around the the issues that apply to ALL switching amps. 

A few guys saying they like what they here is OK, but I'll find you just as many who think any switching amp sounds mid fi.

http://www.see.ed.ac.uk/~s0571365/Files/Articles/ISCAS06/docs/papers/2621.pdf

[cab]

Here is a unbiased assessment of switching amps (good and bad)

http://www.wpi.edu/Pubs/E-project/Available/E-project-041808-145643/unrestricted/report.pdf

Here are the three disadvantages from the cited source of class d audio amps:

1. They need an output filter that adds complexity, cost, and weight.

No mention of sound quality issues there. The same can be said of heat sinks in class a amps.

2. Increased complexity of design.

Yes, you need to know what you are doing. There are small number of people in the world that can design and implement a high quality class d amp. Bruno Putzeys is perhaps the premiere class d designer in the world. Just because they are difficult to implement well doesn't mean someone hasn't figured out how to do it....

Again, no mention of inherent sound quality issues.

3. Quote: "historically, distortion has been a major problem....Advances in technology have allowed for faster modulation techniques, however, which can reduce THD to fractions of a percentage in Class D audio amplifiers."

I refer you to the specs of the Ncore. Then tell me which has lower levels of distortion- the Ncore or your class a amp...

Again, nothing here that says there is any inherent flaw that prevents the Ncore from performing at the highest of levels....

[timind]

I have owned several class d amps, all of them using ICE modules. For the money (used) I thought they were okay, and I did appreciate the green factor. No longer listening to any of them although I still own one of the cheap units using a single 125asx2 ICE module. I like the size of the amp. It works great with an ipod on the input feeding a small pair of monitors.
Also owned a Bel Canto tripath amp which was ok also.
Positive aspects include, efficiency, size and I expect reliability.

[JohnR]

Jim, I read his answer was "no."

I find it odd how people that haven't heard the amp are trying to sell other people on them.

[cab]

A few guys saying they like what they here is OK, but I'll find you just as many who think any switching amp sounds mid fi.

Which proves nothing more than that you know a lot of people with poor hearing....

[wushuliu]

I think it would also be helpful if someone posted some of the current reviews/feedback on these amps. I know there are some on diyaudio, but that's too long a thread to wade through (been there, done that).

oh, there's the impression thread. never mind!

[cab]

Then you aren't very good at reading....

I am not trying to sell anyone. I do find the same old tired attitudes and hostility towards those that aren't stuck in old technologies trying though.

Class d is mid-fi, class d is for bass only, class d has yet to come of age, blah blah blah....

And I find it odd that people that haven't heard them are trying to discourage people from them....

No one is forcing anyone to buy anything. If you feel more comfortable with what you are familiar with, fine. Knocking something you don't understand and/or haven't heard is no better than praising something you haven't heard. Feel free to check out of this thread any time...

[medium jim]

Then you aren't very good at reading....

I am not trying to sell anyone. I do find the same old tired attitudes and hostility towards those that aren't stuck in old technologies trying though.

Class d is mid-fi, class d is for bass only, class d has yet to come of age, blah blah blah....

And I find it odd that people that haven't heard them are trying to discourage people from them....

No one is forcing anyone to buy anything. If you feel more comfortable with what you are familiar with, fine. Knocking something you don't understand and/or haven't heard is no better than praising something you haven't heard. Feel free to check out of this thread any time...

Cab:

I will give you this, you have some brass, as you just told the founder of the Audio Circle that he isn't good at reading and that he needs to check out of this thread....nice!

Jim

[JohnR]

Then you aren't very good at reading....

I am not trying to sell anyone. I do find the same old tired attitudes and hostility towards those that aren't stuck in old technologies trying though.

Class d is mid-fi, class d is for bass only, class d has yet to come of age, blah blah blah....

And I find it odd that people that haven't heard them are trying to discourage people from them....

No one is forcing anyone to buy anything. If you feel more comfortable with what you are familiar with, fine. Knocking something you don't understand and/or haven't heard is no better than praising something you haven't heard. Feel free to check out of this thread any time...

LOL. So your keyboard can't type the word "yes"? Or are you just being evasive and smug. You know, we've all been on the "latest thing" merry-go-round, and at least some of us have been disappointed. I don't see how some caution is a bad thing. Few people (here anyway) have listened to them for more than a couple of days. Some of the people on the thread are being cautious and waiting to get more seat time before selling their amps; other aren't, and don't mind lying in their ads to boot. Whatever, I guess, as you say no-one is stopping you from buying and selling whatever you want.

[macrojack]

To those who question the price of the NC400:

I read some about these before I started asking people I knew. That's when Jason offered to send his my way after he assembled them. So, I am one of the guys who has heard them. And after I had a few days with them I was convinced that they exceeded anything I had ever heard in several ways that are meaningful and valuable to me. My only reservation at that point concerned DIY which I don't want to do. I ordered them and paid for them anyway and have since found someone to complete them for me.

Now, concerning cost, these come from the Netherlands and are priced in Euros so some of the costs involved are due to currency conversion, international shipping, funds transfer. I used the wire transfer option. It cost my $50 and took a few days.
The NC400 amplifier modules are 325 Euros each and the SMPS600 sells for 180 Euros apiece.
I paid $1351.56 for two of each. The total included all costs to my door. So, including the wire transfer fee my total outlay was just over $1400.

I think I'm the one who planted the $1900/pair figure in our conversation. Here's how I got there.

importation of parts $1400
2@ amplifier cases   $ 250
assembly incl. parts  $ 200
ship to and from
 assembly guy          $ 35
           
            TOTAL      $1885

If you can do your own assembly, you will save about $160 because you will still need IEC, binding posts, input connector. Some more money might be saved by skipping cases, building your own or scavenging. Additional savings can be had by building a stereo unit and buying only one power supply.

But the most important thing to know is that everyone who has heard these and said so has bought them and I don't know of anyone who felt the price was high. In fact, to a man, they have raved about the bargain involved.

You are being urged by me and other live witnesses to look into this opportunity. If you don't care to do so, that is your prerogative. I can't see why they wouldn't please anyone but stranger things have happened.

There is nothing to fight about, however. If someone insists on negative presumption, leave him behind where he wants to be. People who say it can't be good are right. So are people who say it's great. To each their own.

[cab]

I thought it was evident in my reply. I added further background which I thought made it clear that I am very familiar with Bruno's body of work.

Again, nothing wrong with caution. I agree there have been too many posts by those praising something they haven't heard. There have been, however, even more posts criticizing class d with the same old and tired complaints by those that have not heard the Ncore and this is no better....

[medium jim]

Which proves nothing more than that you know a lot of people with poor hearing....

Or that you haven't heard or experienced a good amp

Jim

[medium jim]

I thought it was evident in my reply. I added further background which I thought made it clear that I am very familiar with Bruno's body of work.

Again, nothing wrong with caution. I agree there have been too many posts by those praising something they haven't heard. There have been, however, even more posts criticizing class d with the same old and tired complaints by those that have not heard the Ncore and this is no better....

And you are the self professed messiah that is going to take all of of us nay sayers to the promised land of tonal nirvana

Jim

[cab]

No, I learned long ago that you can't fix stupid and that ignorance, for some, is bliss....Glad you are happy with your 50 year old amp....