Class D versus the rest

Rclark · « **Reply #60 on:** 27 Apr 2012, 06:03 pm »

Quote from: medium jim on 27 Apr 2012, 02:29 pm

And we all thought Rclark was the real cheer-leader....

Jim

Not my fault you can't instantly recognize greatness. Dont worry about me, the amps aren't going anywhere, there will be plenty of others cheerleading.

Bruno rules! There, proper cheerleading.

Yaaaaaaaaaay scapegoat!

medium jim · « **Reply #61 on:** 27 Apr 2012, 06:15 pm »

Ozark:

That is why I can handle Class D in my vehicle, i.e, 12v battery power via a capacitor.

As for the time frames, the first viable amplifier circuit was the fabled Western Electric and it was initially designed ca. late 1920's and was perfected (or as close to) in the 1950's, by the likes of Marantz, McIntosh, and a few others. 50+ years later, they still perform on a world class level. So much so, that they have been reissued.

As already noted, it took about 2 decades to make SS palatable, the same may be true for Class D switching amps.

If and when Class D comes of age, it still will not be a game changer that replaces what has come before. All of the chest pounding and hubris will not change that.

Jim

Rclark · « **Reply #62 on:** 27 Apr 2012, 06:22 pm »

God you're short sighted. Ncore is the first to beat top of the line tubes, there will.be competitors. They will be smaller and cheaper, eventually into our pockets.

maxwalrath · « **Reply #63 on:** 27 Apr 2012, 06:27 pm »

Quote from: Rclark on 27 Apr 2012, 06:22 pm

God you're short sighted. Ncore is the first to beat top of the line tubes, there will.be competitors. They will be smaller and cheaper, eventually into our pockets.

I remember seeing a long list of SS amps it was favorably compared to...which top tube amps were the Ncore tested against besides the AtmaSpheres?

medium jim · « **Reply #64 on:** 27 Apr 2012, 06:31 pm »

Quote from: Rclark on 27 Apr 2012, 06:22 pm

God you're short sighted. Ncore is the first to beat top of the line tubes, there will.be competitors. They will be smaller and cheaper, eventually into our pockets.

Written by someone who has never heard one, or I will bet has even owned any tube gear to compare with. The same person who was warned not to go where the original thread went, but didn't heed that advice.

But it is all good and I hope he actually orders and pays for his own and will live happily ever after with them. In the meantime, I will be enjoying my system that doesn't need anything to get me in the happy zone.

Jim

maxwalrath · « **Reply #65 on:** 27 Apr 2012, 06:32 pm »

Quote from: Rclark on 27 Apr 2012, 06:03 pm

Not my fault you can't instantly recognize greatness. Dont worry about me, the amps aren't going anywhere, there will be plenty of others cheerleading.

Bruno rules! There, proper cheerleading.

Yaaaaaaaaaay scapegoat!

Dude, when Ncore started appearing in audiocircle topics you and I had the same number of posts. You've already padded your post count by over ~200 saying the same exact thing. Personally, I get what you're trying to say just because I've read it so many damn times...and although you occasionally move the conversation forward in some way, 90% of the time I wish we were on Facebook so I could just block your posts. Please let us know when you actually get to hear them. I am following these threads closely because I'm actually interested in the amps, and want to read actual new info...not the same thing for the 201st time, or read posts from others trying to get the conversation back on topic.

Rclark · « **Reply #66 on:** 27 Apr 2012, 06:37 pm »

A lot of what I posted were corrections and info, I've read ever page about them. And I'll have mine eventually.

In terms of those who listened, they say even more bombastic stuff than I ever could! Go bully them for a while. Oh wait, you can't.

medium jim · « **Reply #67 on:** 27 Apr 2012, 06:40 pm »

Max:

Some people just never get it, sadly.

Jim

zybar · « **Reply #68 on:** 27 Apr 2012, 06:41 pm »

Quote from: Rclark on 27 Apr 2012, 06:37 pm

A lot of what I posted were corrections and info, I've read ever page about them. And I'll have mine eventually.

In terms of those who listened, they say even more bombastic stuff than I ever could! Go bully them for a while. Oh wait, you can't.

Don't lump all of us under the "bombastic stuff" umbrella. I think the majority of us have been measured in our responses and views.

George

acousticimagery · « **Reply #69 on:** 27 Apr 2012, 06:41 pm »

Hi Guys

Reading this thread with interest and the 'anti Class D's' are quoting information which is years out of date.

I had Martin Colloms sit down in my demo at the National Audio Show 11 last September and he wrote this..... http://www.acousticimagery.com/Hi Fi Critic National Audio Show Blog.pdf after listening to our power amps which use Hypex UcD400HG+HxR with SMPS400A400 psu !..................

The times, they are a changing........

maxwalrath · « **Reply #70 on:** 27 Apr 2012, 06:43 pm »

Quote from: Rclark on 27 Apr 2012, 06:37 pm

In terms of those who listened, they say even more bombastic stuff than I ever could! Go bully them for a while. Oh wait, you can't.

I've found their impressions valuable and I greatly appreciated them. I am not trying to bully you...in fact, I feel like you're the bully here. I just want info about the amps. When you provide it, I am appreciative. When you don't, I am not appreciative. I am checking these threads often and have found that I am getting annoyed to find threads continually getting off topic.

TomS · « **Reply #71 on:** 27 Apr 2012, 06:52 pm »

Quote from: zybar on 27 Apr 2012, 06:41 pm

Don't lump all of us under the "bombastic stuff" umbrella. I think the majority of us have been measured in our responses and views.

George

Thank you George, well said.

There are plenty of great amps, which haven't suddenly gotten worse because NCore came on the scene. Some may be better, some not so much. Lots of choices and all of those good amps will endure and continue to please many.

fredgarvin · « **Reply #72 on:** 27 Apr 2012, 06:56 pm »

The 'digital' amps that have been the most satisfying in my place are Tripaths. I've heard a couple of hypex amps and was not particularly impressed, but they didn't sound bad to me either. I've heard much worse ss and tube designs. Of course with T amps you are limited speaker wise etc. There have been a number of amp shootouts wherein the little T amps were standouts.

macrojack · « **Reply #73 on:** 27 Apr 2012, 07:02 pm »

Ozark Tom and Medium Jim -

You fellers seem to know a lot about amplifier design. Where have you plied your trade? I'm wondering if I've ever owned any of your designs.

Both of you seem willing to prattle on indefinitely about how to improve upon an amplifier which is unanimously (among those who have heard it) as good as any they have heard prior. And, if I understand your position correctly, neither of you have ever heard. When I put it that way it makes you look kinda stupid, huh?

Don't be the guy who goes to a gourmet restaurant and starts pouring spices and seasonings all over your food before you even taste it. If you are going to do that, save your money and go to McDonalds.

Incidentally, guys, maybe you could enlighten us as to what advantages accrue from the use of battery power? My understanding has always been that DC is quieter than AC. However, I have owned battery powered equipment from Jeff Rowland and Red Wine Audio and neither was as quiet as the NC400. So, if quiet is not the goal, why else would you insist upon batteries?

I'm sorry if I seem to be squatting on you guys but your unsupported insistence that you know better than Bruno is getting very old. If you can do better, go ahead. Otherwise take a seat in the back and just listen and learn.

There really isn't much to say about how the NC400 performs. You've read that it's dead silent, that it is very dynamic and pleasant and that it performs remarkably well at very low listening levels. The amps to which it has been compared is an estimable list including OTL tube amps and monster Class A mono blocks. The selling price is delightfully small for performance levels being reported.
In fact, I believe that you would jump at the chance to have your Adcom turned into a Clayton for just $2000. If so, just sell the Adcom and buy the NC400.

Why in the heck are so many of you so resistant? There are about 10 of us now who have experienced these and loved them. George raised a minor caveat but bought them anyway. The rest of us have seen no cause for reservation.

If, in fact, you simply aren't interested in these, why continue to exercise your god given right to say so. Just leave it to those who care. They are doing you no harm and you have heard no hyperbole. All is well.

And for the record I don't care if you power your amps with diesel.

fredgarvin · « **Reply #74 on:** 27 Apr 2012, 07:07 pm »

Battery power is preferable to me as well.

maxwalrath · « **Reply #75 on:** 27 Apr 2012, 07:10 pm »

Quote from: fredgarvin on 27 Apr 2012, 07:07 pm

Battery power is preferable to me as well.

I imagine someone will create a suitable battery power device to power an NCore. Weather or not it goes into production will remain to be seen, but I am definitely curious about a comparison between a properly implemented battery supply and the Hypex one.

fredgarvin · « **Reply #76 on:** 27 Apr 2012, 07:12 pm »

Quote from: maxwalrath on 27 Apr 2012, 07:10 pm

I imagine someone will create a suitable battery power device to power an NCore. Weather or not it goes into production will remain to be seen, but I am definitely curious about a comparison between a properly implemented battery supply and the Hypex one.

I think your probably right, the ball has just started rolling, really.

maxwalrath · « **Reply #77 on:** 27 Apr 2012, 07:15 pm »

Quote from: fredgarvin on 27 Apr 2012, 07:12 pm

I think your probably right, the ball has just started rolling, really.

I am glad for that. I probably won't be able to afford NCores for another few months at the earliest, and I'm really looking forward to seeing how people assemble them and tinker with power supplies in the mean time. I'd really like to assemble them once and leave them alone while knowing I got them to look and perform as well as possible.

cab · « **Reply #78 on:** 27 Apr 2012, 07:24 pm »

I have read roughly 20 glowing reports from people that have actually listened to the ncores. In fact, I have yet to read a single one that was less than glowing....not even one that was lukewarm. That tells me there is substance here....

All I have said is have an open mind and don't be judgmental simply because of past experiences with class d technology. Like it or not, there are more class d amps produced today than any other type. One can hardly call the technology new....Some people can't break old habits....

One always has the simple choice to listen before forming opinions. Or just simply move over and get out of the way. No one is forcing anyone to follow this thread....

medium jim · « **Reply #79 on:** 27 Apr 2012, 07:46 pm »

It is not about being resistant or otherwise. It is more about hearing them in person. Point of reference, I go to my local high-end stereo store who has maybe 15 makers of amplification, all sound great. Of the 50 people who actually buy an amp from them, do you think they will all buy the same amp?

I will never buy an amp without hearing it or a representative one, no matter how many rave reviews it gets. The rave reviews will however, make me want to hear one in person.

I'm sure at some point, I will hear a Mola Mola, Bruno's finished product and will know if it is for me or not. To wit, I do have an open mind and too respect the opinions of those who have actually heard them, but not the opinions of those who haven't and are raving about them incessantly which deflects from those who have. Do I make myself clear?

Jim