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Don't lump all of us under the "bombastic stuff" umbrella. I think the majority of us have been measured in our responses and views.George
I wasn't speaking of you, of course. Some others, after listening, have said some pretty bold stuff, which tends to make sense with everything known so far.And by bombastic I mean, wow, anything said about a $1500 set of amps that takes on and matches what's been shown, just that fact alone is pretty heady stuff.
Rclark:Your opinion about them means nothing and only diffuses from those who actually have heard them. Trust me, we all can read for ourselves what others are saying and what Bruno has for that matter. Then you try to bully anyone who dares to post an opposing point of view. Worse yet, you become belligerent and insulting. Not very civil.Jim
Rclark: what do you think makes Ncore topology better the ICE?
That is an outright lie. I am allowed to post corrections, FACTS.I think you're the belligerent one, coming into the topic with hardened ignorance, telling everyone how it is, and how it will never be.Goes both ways, uh in case you weren't aware.
I've found their impressions valuable and I greatly appreciated them. I am not trying to bully you...in fact, I feel like you're the bully here. I just want info about the amps. When you provide it, I am appreciative. When you don't, I am not appreciative. I am checking these threads often and have found that I am getting annoyed to find threads continually getting off topic.
I have read roughly 20 glowing reports from people that have actually listened to the ncores. In fact, I have yet to read a single one that was less than glowing....not even one that was lukewarm. That tells me there is substance here....All I have said is have an open mind and don't be judgmental simply because of past experiences with class d technology. Like it or not, there are more class d amps produced today than any other type. One can hardly call the technology new....Some people can't break old habits....One always has the simple choice to listen before forming opinions. Or just simply move over and get out of the way. No one is forcing anyone to follow this thread....
This thread is starting to go off the rails. The discussion is starting to remind me of the Bob Carver hype when he claimed to emulate expensive tube amps from a solid state unit by loading the power supply (switching rails). While it was a neat engineering trick, it certainly did not sound like a tube amp.This seems to be similar. While I’m sure the Ncore amps sound pretty good, at the end of the day, it’s still a switching amp (that’s how it works). Still have not seen any explanations on how the amp overcomes the physics of switching artifacts. I suspect that it has not overcome the switching artifacts entirely, and (in fact) may not have overcome them. As earlier stated, it took 20 to 30 years to get conventional solid state amps to the point they were considered on a par with the best tube amps. People still argue about Class A vs. Class AB, where there is almost no switching compared to a switching amp, and no artifacts to deal with.
I chose my AB chipamp solely because of it's low crossover distortion and it sounds fantastic on my efficient speakers. Class A is not perfect, no amplifier class is...that's why there are options. Money is the biggest factor in design evolution. Class D, because of it's low cost and efficient energy use, will evolve as far as the technology will allow because it has far more uses.Just because it sounded poor in a lot of previous implementations does not mean it could not improve. Digital Audio Company and Class D (isn't that the company name?) have been putting out great sounding amplifiers for a couple of years now. The DAC Cherry amps have received very favorable reviews, based on that, why can't you believe NCore could sound even better? It might not, I don't know. There's no reason to believe it has to be worse.There are already a couple of fanboys it seems, but don't be in the opposite boat just because. I'm intrigued by the NCore amps, but around $2,000 for a somewhat-DIY amplifier is sort of pricey.
There will be competitors, but Ncore is the first to beat the best, it's a tipping point.
Have you heard the Class D kits or the DAC amps yet? I don't believe the kits are supposed to sound as good as great Class A amps, but it seems they perform at a tremendous level for the dollar/watt ratio.I've read some good things in the past about switching amps that produced good sound when a lot of attention was paid to the power supply. But since most of these amps are fairly cheap, the power supplies are not well executed.
I am skeptical about class D amps for a number of reasons:1. The physics involved in its principal of operation ensures that there a lot of artifacts that need to be overcome. There is quite a bit of data out there about their limitations, but nothing of substance about how these various artifacts have been addressed/overcome. 2. Efficient power has nothing to do with actual sound reproduction. Personally, could care less about efficient amplification. All I care about is how it sounds. To date, Class A amps (from a well respected designer who knows what they are doing) provides the best sound, with the least amount of artifacts. Granted, the speakers need to support the amp’s output power. Certainly, many of the fine speakers out there that have lower SPL levels will only sound good with higher power.3. I’ve listened to a lot of switching amps, and yes, they are incrementally are improving, Having said that, they are not yet (to me) nearly as accurate or clear sounding as the best conventional solid state or tube amps. The speakers used play into how much of a difference one would pick up.So, as with anything, agree that one needs to keep an open mind. However, to date, switching amps have not been able overcome their limitations, which are more significant then more conventional amps. There certainly is nothing posted by the AES stating how this is achieved......A linear power supply for switching amps certainly does help.
