[jackman]

I finally watched the whole fight.  These guys were made to fight each other!  These three fights will go down as classics, which is rare these days.  I thought the fight could have gone to either man but that Marquez might have edged Manny out by an eyelash. 

Either way, I would have scored it a draw.  Neither man did enough to win or lose the fight.  It was great action and I feel bad for either guy walking away with the L after such valliant effort.  JMM gave it everything he had and I thought he fought a perfect fight.  I don't think he could have fought any better against a great opponent like Pacman.  Two of my favorite all-time fighters who gave boxing fans three amazing fights.   

I'm almost certain the Mayweather fight will be a letdown after seeing these fights. 

[ddemeterio5]

I think that if Pacquiao comes with his A game (an excellent offense with good defense), he will have a chance of winning against Mayweather.  It's deceiving because as the saying goes in boxing: you're only as good as your last fight.  This fight raised more questions than answers.  Most people are saying that Pacquiao will stand no chance against Mayweather and they could be right.

But I see it differently than most people.  That night I saw a Pacquiao sharpening his tactical skills and he was somewhat successful because he was able to make Marquez miss a lot.  If the old offensive minded Pacquiao showed up that night he could have lost the fight decisively since he will be hit a lot more by Marquez's more accurate punches and without knockdowns it will likely sway to Marquez favor.  Going back to their last 2 fights, I think that the reason why the decision swayed to Pacman's favor is because of the Marquez knockdowns. 

I believe that in order to beat Floyd, Manny should LEARN how to deal with counter punchers or boxers who can fight backwards and what he did in the Marquez fight was exactly that.  Although Marquez still landed clean shots but he was able to lower those numbers considerably that he managed to land more shots per round.  Although most of them were not as clean as Marquez's but Pacquiao landed more, enough to get the win.  If Manny could improve his defensive skills even more and his ability to adjust in the fight then yes he will have a decent chance against Floyd.

[dB Cooper]

I am a big Pacquiao fan. However, like jackman, I would have had Marquez ahead by a bit. I thought Marquez basically neutralized Pacqiao- neutralized his back hand almost entirely, maneuvering him back into the one handed style they say he had grown out of. Good points have been made here about judging one fight based on another. (Frazier beat Ali> Foreman destroyed Frazier> Ali schooled Foreman.) However, I am more skeptical now about Manny vs Money. Mosley didn't do much against Pacquiao, but one thing he was able to do was make Manny think too much and throw too little. Marquez had success with this as well. And if those guys could do it, Floyd can do it.

As for the styles-make-fights thing, Kieran Mulvaney made the following point about the fight on espn.com which I thought was interesting:

"Yes, styles make fights and Marquez has the style that will always give Pacquiao fits, but part of the reason for that is that Marquez is a pinpoint counterpuncher who is able to maneuver Pacquiao out of position. Any other welterweight pinpoint counterpunchers come to mind?"

Freddie Roach has improved Manny's boxing skills quite a bit. But he is still not primarily a boxer. IMHO if Manny tries to outbox Mayweather he will lose, making the same mistake Marvin Hagler, a better boxer than given credit for, made when he tried to prove he could outbox Ray Leonard. He couldn't. Manny needs to revert to some extent to a pressure style and make Floyd fight. He will have to eat some leather to make it work but in a fight, Floyd's chin gives out before Manny's.

[jimdgoulding]

Interesting, db.

[jackman]

I am a big Pacquiao fan. However, like jackman, I would have had Marquez ahead by a bit. I thought Marquez basically neutralized Pacqiao- neutralized his back hand almost entirely, maneuvering him back into the one handed style they say he had grown out of. Good points have been made here about judging one fight based on another. (Frazier beat Ali> Foreman destroyed Frazier> Ali schooled Foreman.) However, I am more skeptical now about Manny vs Money. Mosley didn't do much against Pacquiao, but one thing he was able to do was make Manny think too much and throw too little. Marquez had success with this as well. And if those guys could do it, Floyd can do it.

As for the styles-make-fights thing, Kieran Mulvaney made the following point about the fight on espn.com which I thought was interesting:

"Yes, styles make fights and Marquez has the style that will always give Pacquiao fits, but part of the reason for that is that Marquez is a pinpoint counterpuncher who is able to maneuver Pacquiao out of position. Any other welterweight pinpoint counterpunchers come to mind?"

Freddie Roach has improved Manny's boxing skills quite a bit. But he is still not primarily a boxer. IMHO if Manny tries to outbox Mayweather he will lose, making the same mistake Marvin Hagler, a better boxer than given credit for, made when he tried to prove he could outbox Ray Leonard. He couldn't. Manny needs to revert to some extent to a pressure style and make Floyd fight. He will have to eat some leather to make it work but in a fight, Floyd's chin gives out before Manny's.

You have never been more right!  Except the part about Hagler/Leonard!  Leonard ran from him and was "gifted" his belt.  Very sad day for a great middleweight champ like Hagler, one of my all time favorites!  I admittedly can't be objective about Hagler because I was too big a fan.  After the fight, I was pissed for years about the decision and about the way Hagler fought.  I wanted him to rough up Sugar Ray and he tried to beat him at his own game.  Still think he won but it would not have been close if he fought his type of fight!

Cheers,

J

[dB Cooper]

While Leonard-Hagler is a whole 'nother topic- and Hagler was one of my all-time favorites too- regardless of one's views on the outcome, there can be little doubt that Ray got Hagler to fight Ray's fight.  I agree- had Hagler fought his type of fight, he would have knocked Ray out. But the parameters of how the fight unfolded were set mostly by Ray, not by Marvin. That's what they call 'ring generalship', and that is why I thought Ray won. Ray, BTW, made the exact same mistake himself- fighting the other guy's fight- when he tried to prove that he could brawl with Duran in their first fight. He pretty much held his own but it was a suicidal fight plan that played into Duran's hands. Like they say in poker, if you look around the table and you can't tell who the sucker is, it's you.

[django11]

Some good observations here.

It's funny to watch a boxer you like walk through guys and look like the truth until he fights that guy that just has his number and makes him look human.  Like Mosley vs Forrest* or Jones vs Tarver to name a few...   I can ony hope that Pacquiao has Mayweather's number...


*I'ts kind of funny to think that Forrest beat Mosley twice only to get beaten twice by Mayorga...

[jackman]

Some good observations here.

It's funny to watch a boxer you like walk through guys and look like the truth until he fights that guy that just has his number and makes him look human.  Like Mosley vs Forrest* or Jones vs Tarver to name a few...   I can ony hope that Pacquiao has Mayweather's number...


*I'ts kind of funny to think that Forrest beat Mosley twice only to get beaten twice by Mayorga...

Great examples!  Some guys just have other guys' numbers.  I wouldn't say Manny has Marquez's number or vice versa.  They are just evenly matched fighters.  Forrest absolutely had Mosley's number and wound up losing to a one dimentional fighter like Mayorga.  It's a shame that Forrest was killed in a botched robbery.  He was a good guy. 

I think a young Roy Jones would have destroyed Tarver, although Tarver did expose some serious holes in Jones' armor. 

[ddemeterio5]

Pacman should use this experience to make him hungry again and that he has something to prove. It's good to see him as underdog against Floyd because I think that motivates him even more. 

The danger for megastars like Manny or Floyd is when they start believing in their own hype and begin to think they are invincible.  A little dose of reality keeps them grounded and maybe that's a blessing in disguise.

[JerryM]

I think Manny is going to kick Mayweather's a$$.

[dB Cooper]

I sure hope so. Mayweather is a complete A-hole. I would love to see him get rescued by the ref late in the fight. If Manny really catches him flush, he'll go.

[kingdeezie]

Pacman should use this experience to make him hungry again and that he has something to prove. It's good to see him as underdog against Floyd because I think that motivates him even more. 

The danger for megastars like Manny or Floyd is when they start believing in their own hype and begin to think they are invincible.  A little dose of reality keeps them grounded and maybe that's a blessing in disguise.

 

Manny is a great fighter, but I feel he really lost the passion he once had.

I really love catching the HBO 24/7 before these big name fights, and while they don't tell anything near the whole story, it never looked like Manny was really digging in during training.

He was buying cars, singing on TV, watching his own "action" movie, but they never really showed him given his all.

Of course, what the camera shows us, is what we see, but Marquez was shown always training to prove something, I never saw that in Manny truly.

But, what do I know?

[dB Cooper]

He better find it for Floyd or he'll have a very long night.

[JackD201]

........ Or a short painful one. While I hate Floyd's guts he's still extremely fast, strong, smart and much bigger. If Pacman gets the cramps and loses his lateral movement again, it's game over.