[DeadFish]

Have been having an audio adbenture in the house since bringing these home.  Long-story-short, they were being 'disposed' of and I got a deal on something that I didn't even know what it was but something with 'HORNS'.
Here's a couple of links to see the specs
http://www.lansingheritage.org/images/altec/specs/home-systems/model-19/page1.jpg

http://www.lansingheritage.org/images/altec/specs/home-systems/model-19/page2.jpg

As you can see, monsters.
I've caught up with the history of them and ran them for a couple of days, just to see what they sounded like.
Oh, man!
In a 13ft square plastered room I'm getting reflections on reflections, I figure, so a new rethink is in order on what I am doing.  
And no, I won't admit they are too big and giving them to you...
Hooked up to my Bryston B-60, I can hear them clear at the neighbor's across the street.  Throttled back, the clarity and revelations are to the level of a year's worth of chasing on my up-to-present Bryston biamped Vandies.  
But feeling like the singer's are sitting next to you are disquieting.
At first I thought I was outa phase, but that ain't it, as reversing just collapses the soundfield and it's still messed up.

I know this is one of many challenges learning something new, and I got lots of tweaking to do, but didn't know if there were a few of you with a bit of experience that had a tip or two.
I'm already rerigging the bases as one speaker had them pulverized, and my engineering and woodshopgave me something better to move them around with.  At somewhere about 140lbs a piece, I needed some help.
Scott F has convinced me to hear tubes on them, and I know I cannot resist that, and I live in fear of liking it tu much!
Hopefully this afternoon will have my Rega Planet backonline so I don't have to listen to dvdplayer anymore.
Any and all comments, information or opinions are welcome.

Regards,
DeadFish

[Bill O'Connell]

I have a pair of these in my basement sitting there waiting for me to fire them up again.
 You might want to try putting rope caulk on the underside and topside of the horn . Apply with a hair dryer to get the metal nice and warm and then mold the rope caulk over the horn. It is a cheap tweak that will take care of the little bit of ringing from the metel horn.
 Tubes are a must hear on these. You haven't really heard them at their best until you do.
 Later,
 Bill

[Scott F.]

And no, I won't admit they are too big and giving them to you...

I can't believe you are really listening to those pieces of crap. Those are the worst speakers ever built. You really need to get rid of those things. They are way too big for your room, sound honky, they are hard to drive, colored and generally suck.

I doubt that if you put them out on the curb that the trash man would even pick them up. So let me do you a big favor and come over and haul them off for you. This will save you tons of aggrivation, time and money.

BTW, when I come over I'll bring my 2a3 and a 300B to show you just how horrible they sound.

[Blackmore]

Oh no you don't , Scott

I thought they were terrible way before Scott  and I think you're harming your health by even having them in the house.  I'll steal a truck and be right over tonight to save you.  

I listen to Altec Voice of the Theaters driven by dynaco amps throughout my Music History classes at MU.  Man could they fill a room!!!  Great presence and clarity. And could they ever play loud! When Mrs. Bailey would say "here comes the piccolo part" we'd duck and cover.  I'd love to hear the 19s and re-live those days.

[DVV]

I can't believe you are really listening to those pieces of crap. Those are the worst speakers ever built. You really need to get rid of those things. They are way too big for your room, sound honky, they are hard to drive, colored and generally suck.

I doubt that if you put them out on the curb that the trash man would even pick them up. So let me do you a big favor and come over and haul them off for you. This will save you tons of aggrivation, time and money.

BTW, when I come over I'll big my 2a3 and a 300B to show you just how horrible they sound.

You're out to evict all of St Louis, Scotty? Or just the first door neighbors?

Don't listen to Scotty, he's just pulling some below the belt shots to get hold of them there Altecs.

Instead of writing a big diatribe, let me simply say you were lucky as hell to get hold of them. Classics like that are hard to come by, so even if you decide to keep them (as you should, because you will NOT do any better these days, not for sane money), and should run across other classics like JBL's Century L100, or if God should smile on you and kick a pair of JBL 4312 monitors your way, don't think, buy.

Loudspeakers just don't come any better than that.

Cheers,
DVV

[DVV]

Seems like St Louis is about to be renamed Shark City. Some heavy predators over there, Deadfish, you want to watch it.

But they speaketh with a forked tongue. Heed ye not these scoundrels, my son, but rejoice in the voice of the Lord.

Cheers,
DVV

[gonefishin]

How cool!  great find


  There's a bunch of info out there...which I'm sure you've already been reading.  You can damp the metal horns (as above) to cut down on some ringing...replace some of the old caps and various crossover parts...make sure the l-pads are also in working order.  If you feel real ambitious, you can try to stiffen up the cabinet a little to cut down on some of the cabinet vibrations.  Lots of good posts at places like Lansing-Heritage or the Altec user group to find some of the tweaks for these fine speakers  congrats!


   oh yeah, The Planet mates up very well with them...tubes do also.  But, after you get yourself some tubed equipment hooked up...you may want to try to put together an inexpensive gainclone amp too.  



     Have fun!

[Scott F.]

Don't listen to Scotty, he's just pulling some below the belt shots to get hold of them there Altecs.

No, not me.

What Deadfish is holding back is just how good of deal he got on them. Needless to say, it was the deal of the Century (note....hint hint).

Hey Deadfish, DVV made a post not to long ago over at the Lab ? on how to make a home brew lubricant for the L-Pads. By not they are probably dried out and scratchy. His brew is the same stuff they used way back when. Seems to me it was Vasoline, a little bit of gasoline and something else, glycerine? This is what they use(d) on slides and pots to lubricate and help conductivity.

Hey Dejan, just did a search and couldn't find the post. Can you point me to it or refresh my memory on the brew?

Deadfish, when I come over we can work on the room reflections. We can do a lot with a little. I'll bring my sencore with me and we can measure the room and figure out the best way of treating it without overdamping it. Over damping is a really common mistake. You want to keep the room somewhat live. It's all about a good balance.

[gonefishin]

Deadfish, when I come over we can work on the room reflections. We can do a lot with a little. I'll bring my sencore with me and we can measure the room and figure out the best way of treating it without overdamping it. Over damping is a really common mistake. You want to keep the room somewhat live. It's all about a good balance.

 

   mighty nice of ya!

  you wouldn't happen to live in Illinois, would ya  (just kiddin')

   

[Scott F.]

you wouldn't happen to live in Illinois, would ya  (just kiddin')  

Actually, I live St Louis and Deadfish lives in Collinsville? Illinois. So I almost live there

What part of Illinois are you in?

[gonefishin]

huh, no kiddin.  I seen you have "gateway to the west" in your moniker area...that's still a pretty good cruise from the Joliet area.

  I'm in Joliet...about 36 miles south of Chicago.

   you know...Joliet Jake


  DeadFish, are you the same deadfish that I met at the first Lima show?  Did you get that car fixed

    hope all is well (even if ya ain't the same DeadFish )

[Scott F.]

I'm in Joliet...about 36 miles south of Chicago

Know it well. You'll love this, I work for ComEd. Your favorite provider of electricity. Actually I work for one of the de-regulated arms of the 'mother ship' Exelon and we have an office in St Louis.

I'm usually in Chicago a few times a year. Rather than fly we drive. Less hastle and only adds about two hours to the trip. Chicago is one our favorite weekend getaways for my wife and I. We'll drive up and stay downtown, catch a show or a concert, go shopping or just hang out.

Last time up in February we all stayed out in Oakbrook and saw Camelot at the Drury. Then we took our kids to Blue Man Group down at the Briar Street Theatre. Afterwards we walked up the street and got pizza at Giordanos (did I get the name right?). Had loads of fun.

[gonefishin]

you've gotta be kiddin' me.  A number of years ago, when ComEd was still just ComEd...I worked at #18 as a coal monkey.  

   I just took a look at the Gateway Audio group Circle...it looks as tho you guys are getting some very cool projects together!


  ok...ok...maybe I should try to get this back on topic.

  Deadfish, if you perform any of the tweaks, I'd love to hear what you thought of them.

[DeadFish]

Wow!
A thread I didn't kill!  

Thanks so much to all of you for the enthusiasm I've detected, these sound like some keepers to tinker with.
I just hope I don't have to add on to the house to build a room...
(I don't think I can afford another divorce.)

Scott F., whatever you wanna play with to try and 'flesh them out', I'd feel real good about it.  The L-Pads don't sound scritchy to me, but you know my ears...
Right now, I've been feeling like a 6 year old that picked up a fireman's hose and turned it on.  Too much to think on, but to just hold on.
It seems to be general concensus that pluggin' tubes to 'em would be a benefit.

gonefishin, I be the very same one you met in Lima.  Nope never got that car fixed.  Had to leave it in 'Bugtussle' Indiana when it broke down and I felt like I was getting shaken down for $$$.  We rented a car, enjoyed the heck out of the MWF and meeting folks like you, and drove home grinning not looking back for the Pontiac with only 75k on it.  Okay, it took a year or so to pay off the creditcard...but still, it was a 'hoot!'
So, strangely enough you get to see me on 'the other end' of the stick.
I found these speakers in a pile of trash in a guys basement.  The house was repossessed, he owed $225k on it, had stored everything he COULD store, and what was left, giving away.  I was there to buy his old refrigerator for $75.  He said if we found something we wanted, he wanted a friend to enjoy what he couldn't.  A bittersweet thought that, but it didn't keep me from poking around.  He suggested I remove the built in oven!, but I didn't.  Another guy (we shall call 'Bob') came along and went after that oven.  I was looking for a way out thru the garage and saw a horn sticking out of the big pile of trash left in the basement/garage.  Dug 'em out and saw the label and asked him what about the speakers in the trash?  He said he told Bob he could have them if he wanted them.  Bob was busy shutting off the gas.  Asked again in 15 minutes, he said see if Bob wanted them.  Bob was carrying out built-in dishwasher.  Asked another time, but Bob was carrying out the oven.
(It was so weird watching a guy's life get tossed away..)
I had a C-note stashed in my wallet and asked the guy if he would SELL me his speakers and he smiled, took the money, and told me to Enjoy them for him.
Well, that's what I plan on doing for him.
Honest to gosh didn't know what I had except they were heavy with horns.  I remember seeing Voice of the Theatres in concerts in my youth, imagining them in my living room. ... Go figure..
And this guy wouldn't know a tube amp if it bit his butt....

So, there's the story, you heard it here.  Certainly puts a new twisted 'urban legend' out there. But it really happened, once...

And Blackmore, you'll certainly have your chance when we can get this thing calmed down and listenable and get the GAS group over here for a bit of meat burning and listening/tinkerng.

Thanks again, everyone, for the encouragement!

Regards,
DeadFish

[DVV]

No, not me.

What Deadfish is holding back is just how good of deal he got on them. Needless to say, it was the deal of the Century (note....hint hint).

Hey Deadfish, DVV made a post not to long ago over at the Lab ? on how to make a home brew lubricant for the L-Pads. By not they are probably dried out and scratchy. His brew is the same stuff they used way back when. Seems to me it was Vasoline, a little bit of gasoline and something else, glycerine? This is what they use(d) on slides  ...

Sure Scotty. The brew refers to scratchy pots and such like. Clean out a small bottle, preferably one with a pipette, so you can dose drops easily. Take two equal parts of vaseline and gasoline, about half a finger's worth, you don't need much of the stuff. Shake and stir to obtain a thick compund; you'll need about 5-6 minutes worth of shaking. Turn pot to one side, put in a drop, turn pot to the other side, put in another drop, then rotate it back and forth to work it in.

That's one pot which will not make scratchy noises for some time.

But I don't see how this relates to a horn driver?

Cheers,
DVV

[Scott F.]

But I don't see how this relates to a horn driver?

The Altecs have pots on the horns.

Hey, I see you are thinking about new speakers from one of your posts. You know....those B&M's probably sound pretty bad too .... and now that I think about it that Karan Acoustics has got to be just about shot ....

[DVV]

But I don't see how this relates to a horn driver?

The Altecs have pots on the horns.

Hey, I see you are thinking about new speakers from one of your posts.

And I see you have read the collected works of Dr Josef Goebbels, and are probably working part time in CIA, MI6, KGB or wherever as a propaganda man.

I am sorry to disappoint you, Scotty, but no, I am not even thinking about changing the 1041 monitors. When I hear a better speaker for anything looking like sane money, I may start considering it, but as things stand, I think there's plenty of steam left in them.

You know....those B&M's probably sound pretty bad too .... and now that I think about it that Karan Acoustics has got to be just about shot ....

Regarding the Karan, you could be right. I'll be able to tell you by the end of this year, when I plan to have several projects completed and ready. One of them refers to a power amplifier, and that one I have been hankering to develop to the end for a looooooong time.

Actually, I have heard the so much touted Gaincard and must say I am greatly disappointed with it. I think I can do MUCH better, so all I have to do now is to prove it. And that's what I'm doing. If all goes well, it will be ready by the end of the year, and it will be a publically available project, free of charge, with full explanations, schematics, circuit board artwork and layout plans.

Interested?

Ciao,
DVV

[gonefishin]

Actually, I have heard the so much touted Gaincard and must say I am greatly disappointed with it. I think I can do MUCH better, so all I have to do now is to prove it. And that's what I'm doing. If all goes well, it will be ready by the end of the year, and it will be a publically available project, free of charge, with full explanations, schematics, circuit board artwork and layout plans.

Interested?

   If this is going to be open to any individuals, I'd love to read more information.  I still think the gaincards are a nice low cost easy project which sound pretty good for the level of experience one needs...it's a fun little project.  But I'd certainly be interested in anything else (even tho the wife may have a different opinion on that matter )

  take care>>>>>>>>>>

[DVV]

If this is going to be open to any individuals, I'd love to read more information.  I still think the gaincards are a nice low cost easy project which sound pretty good for the level of experience one needs...it's a fun little project.  But I'd certainly be interested in anything else (even tho the wife may have a different opinion on that matter )

  take care>>>>>>>>>>

Of course it will be - I intend to make it fully public, no strings, free of charge. Also scalable, at the very least in two variants of output power, possibly more (but I doubt it, because of my testing procedures it would simply take too long).

The Gaincard reminded me of Nelson Pass' small power amp. With a few select components (not necessarily outrageously expensive ones) it can really come on song, but with the remaining 80% it's just barely so-so, or wrose, most uninteresting. So was the Gaincard - with my own 1041 monitors, it was a very enjoyable amp, but with products from well established companies, known to be capable of high quality sound, it returned mediocre results.

Well, in my view, this is NOT all right. If it's really good, it should produce at least reasonable results with the worst of what can be found on the market, on average it should be very good, or better. And obviously, if it is to be interesting to people to go for it and make it, it must be relatively simple to make and should not use rare, hard-to-find components. Because you are making it yourself, it is internally scalable, so to speak, in the sense that you can use decent, quality or extreme components, as you see fit.

It's something I've been giving much thoughts lately, trying to find out what are the key problems in DIY audio, how to avoid them, or solve them if avoiding is not possible.

Another point - I find most available projects somewhat insulting to the DIY man insofar that they offer only the basic electronics. But what about the normal protection circuits, those against excess DC and/or overheating? They have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with sound, yet they make your work safer, and ultimately, your system safer. If you have them in the cheapest and sleaziest unit sold on the market, why are DIY people denied this by default? Do people think DIY guys are stupid and can't cope? I don't know, but to me, if it's not truly complete and technically comparable to equivalent commercial products, it's unfinished, incomplete.

From my point of view, at least - if you choose not to use them fine, that's your business, but my job is to provide them, make their use possible.

And so forth, I could go on and on, but this is not the topic for it. So, rest assured you will all be told in good time when it appears, that's a promise.

Cheers,
DVV

[Aether Audio]

Hey Guys,

I was just cruising around and caught this thread.  I don't know if anybody's interested, but I have an old pair of Model 19's in mothballs.  They were the first pair of speakers I ever bought when I was a young(er) man getting into high-end.  I listened to those babies many an evening.  Back when Mobile Fidelity was releasing their Half-Speed Masters, I would buy one and spend a whole weekend listening to it over and over on the 19's.  They brought many hours of listening pleasure.  Ah, but alas, I began to crave something more.  Next thing you know I'm researching speaker design.  Fast forward to today and now where selling them.

I'll never use the 19's again.  Good as they are, they just don't come near what we're building now,  Never the less, from this thread there appears to be quite a following for those puppies  (Great Danes is more like it).  The ones I have are in rough shape though.  They need to be reconed and new voice-coils put in the horns but...if somebody wants them bad enough, I'd consider dragging them out and getting them fixed up.  I can do all the work that they need seeing I know a little about speakers and such.

If somebody out there is interested, just PM me.  If the money is right - they're yours. It might take me a while though, we're awful busy right now.  If this sounds interesting to anybody, I'll be standing by.  If no one contacts me, they'll stay right where they are.  I just don't have the motivation to bother with fixing them up on speculation that they'll sell if I were to post them on Audiogon.  If its a sure thing I would though.  I'll be standing by.

-Bob