HD Tracks - Natalie Merchant Tigerlily another crap transfer

Pez · « **on:** 23 Sep 2011, 05:27 pm »

I'm really starting to get pissed off with these clowns. Tigerlily is yet another 5.1 mix down pile of shit where instruments suddenly drop out of existence and vocals do weird things they shouldn't do. I will say that this one is not quite as disastrous as my Battle with the Pink Robots but it is NOT ok to pass this garbage off as stereo hi rez. To me this is bordering on fraud and misrepresentation of the products they are selling.

The saddest part is it sounds very very good, but it doesn't matter if it is not true to the original work. It'd be like looking at the Mona Lisa and her friggin' nose was missing. Yes it's a masterpiece, but HER FRIGGIN' NOSE IS MISSING!!! Any way HD tracks is pretty much on my sh!tcan list. I don't think I'll be buying ANY more music from these jokers.

ted_b · « **Reply #1 on:** 23 Sep 2011, 05:37 pm »

Pez, I have the DVD-Audio. It is 5.1 only but includes the SMART (system managed audio resource technique) table that has internal instructions to get a stereo downmix (channel mix balances, etc). My rip via "get stereo downmix" (which is only available if SMARTS is found) in DVDAexplorer sounds great, nothing like the experiment I did for you with Pink robots (which clearly sounds like you are listening to the front 2 channels of a 5.1 mix).

I am sorry the HDTracks is a mess. I'm sure they will give you a credit (instore), although hardly the solution.

Can you give me an example of a track (and time elapsed) where you here some weirdisms. I'll check my rip.

Pez · « **Reply #2 on:** 23 Sep 2011, 05:47 pm »

Like I said it's not as bad as the flaming lips, but the first track San Andreas Fault the electric guitar, which is very prominent in this track drops out and all you can hear is a light strumming as if the guitarist didn't turn the amp on. Ugh. It's not unlistenable like Yoshimi, but it is not right.

zybar · « **Reply #3 on:** 23 Sep 2011, 05:56 pm »

Quote from: Pez on 23 Sep 2011, 05:47 pm

Like I said it's not as bad as the flaming lips, but the first track San Andreas Fault the electric guitar, which is very prominent in this track drops out and all you can hear is a light strumming as if the guitarist didn't turn the amp on. Ugh. It's not unlistenable like Yoshimi, but it is not right.

Which is why I never listen to the DVD-A rip and still use the redbook version.

It's too bad as the hi-rez version definitely does have more detail and space.

George

neekomax · « **Reply #4 on:** 23 Sep 2011, 05:59 pm »

Oh man, that would drive me bonkers

!

Those downloads aren't cheap either!

ted_b · « **Reply #5 on:** 23 Sep 2011, 06:42 pm »

San Andreas Fault; I compared the redbook to several versions of the other mix (DTS 2 channel, DVD-A rip, Mp3 from DTS) and they all reflect the same (but diferent from redbook) mix. I'm not saying a mistake hasn't been made, but i think the hirez mix is just different, regardless. The solo guitar that starts at 2:00 is way right in the hirez mixes, and only right center on the redbook, and of course the ryhthm guitar strumming is quite muted (and dead left) in the hirez mix....but there are other changes too. If you compared the Dead's American Beauty stereo hirez to the redbook it's a completely different recording, even has different lyrics, and the mix is completely unlike the classic redbook.

Not sure what to say, but I think the mix that HDtracks is selling is not unique.

ted_b · « **Reply #6 on:** 23 Sep 2011, 07:19 pm »

So I've been thinking about this. Just what the struggling hirez music business needs, another variable (hirez mixes of classic favorites may be quite different, possibly based on faulty downmix coefficients).

I'm going to break out my Tigerlily DVD-A disc and play it in full 5.1 tonight (or this weekend). i want to hear it in 5.1 and determine if the mix/feel/balance is more like the redbook (i.e rhythm guitar is back to prominence in track 1, but mixed to surround left and therefore not correctly mixed back in when downmix occurs) or more like the downmix (i.e rhythm guitar is muted in 5.1 as well).

In either case, this is a "buyer beware" variable that seems to have gone somewhat unnoticed until now. Thanks....I guess.

Charles Calkins · « **Reply #7 on:** 23 Sep 2011, 09:46 pm »

No comments on this subject because I don't have a clue as to what all of you are talking about.
BUT!!!
IMHO When Natalie Merchant and 10,000 maniacs parted that put a real damper on her career. She hasn't been able to establish herself in the music world going solo.

But I sure do like their album "MTV Unplugged" I play it quite often. I guess it's because they were at the peak of their careers. Sounds GREAT!!!

Cheers
Charlie

ted_b · « **Reply #8 on:** 23 Sep 2011, 10:05 pm »

Quote from: Charles Calkins on 23 Sep 2011, 09:46 pm

No comments on this subject because I don't have a clue as to what all of you are talking about.
BUT!!!
IMHO When Natalie Merchant and 10,000 maniacs parted that put a real damper on her career. She hasn't been able to establish herself in the music world going solo.

But I sure do like their album "MTV Unplugged" I play it quite often. I guess it's because they were at the peak of their careers. Sounds GREAT!!!

Cheers
Charlie

Charles, this discussion is about a VERY GOOD album, that sounds incorrectly mixed via hirez. There is no debate here that her solo career produced a great Tigerlily album.

Pez · « **Reply #9 on:** 23 Sep 2011, 10:22 pm »

My email to HDtracks.

To whom it may concern,
I downloaded Natalie Merchant Tigerlily last night and listened to it today. I was appalled to discover, yet again, HDtracks has delivered another sub-standard 5.1 mixdown to 2 channel. As I have had happen with your company before the recording IS NOT true to the original. Vocals drop out, guitar parts that are clearly there in every other version I own of this album sound weird and incoherent or are just plain missing.

Why is it that your company releases these clearly substandard mixes when your claim to fame is high resolution audiophile grade music? Are you even aware that these mixes are not done properly? I'm not just being nit picky this IS a problem with the products you are delivering.

While I'm aware that your policy seems to be that I can get a refund or exchange for another album this will not satisfy me in the least. I paid for Natalie Merchant Tigerlily stereo 24/96 true to the artists and producers intention and that is what I want. I want your company to go back and figure out what went wrong with this product and I want you to fix the problem so that other people who buy this album are not put through the same brain damage I have had to go through.

Most of all I want to be able to purchase products from your company with confidence that it will deliver on what it promises and not some substandard excuse for what is supposed to represent a higher standard in musical reproduction and a higher standard in customer satisfaction.

Sincerely,
Jason Wong

vhiner · « **Reply #10 on:** 24 Sep 2011, 12:22 am »

Jason,

Thanks for fighting the good fight. I will do the same if I get burned again by an HDtracks dowload.

DaveBSC · « **Reply #11 on:** 24 Sep 2011, 12:39 am »

I continue to be amazed at the garbage HD tracks churns out, thinking they can pan it off at premium prices to unsuspecting customers. If you want high-res audio, buy it from sources that know how to do it (RR, Linn, etc). These clowns won't wake up until people stop buying from them.

Pez · « **Reply #12 on:** 24 Sep 2011, 12:48 am »

ted_b · « **Reply #13 on:** 24 Sep 2011, 12:50 am »

Quote from: Pez on 24 Sep 2011, 12:48 am

RR?

Reference Recordings (Keith Johnson)

jjc1 · « **Reply #14 on:** 24 Sep 2011, 02:30 am »

Quote from: ted_b on 24 Sep 2011, 12:50 am

Reference Recordings (Keith Johnson)

Aren't RR and HD TRacks the same company? Why does the RR sight have a link to HD Tracks?

HAL · « **Reply #15 on:** 24 Sep 2011, 02:34 am »

HDTracks does sell come of RR's library online.

RR sells HRx discs that are bit for bit copies of some of their master tapes. They sound very good indeed!

jjc1 · « **Reply #16 on:** 24 Sep 2011, 02:35 am »

Quote from: HAL on 24 Sep 2011, 02:34 am

HDTracks does sell come of RR's library online.

RR sells HRx discs that are bit for bit copies of some of their master tapes. They sound very good indeed!

But do they sell Hi Res downloads?

HAL · « **Reply #17 on:** 24 Sep 2011, 02:39 am »

RR does not sell HiRez downloads.

HDTracks is Chesky Records on-line from what I can tell.

JohnR · « **Reply #18 on:** 24 Sep 2011, 02:44 am »

Why is it important that they be a download?

jjc1 · « **Reply #19 on:** 24 Sep 2011, 02:50 am »

Quote from: JohnR on 24 Sep 2011, 02:44 am

Why is it important that they be a download?

Because I have a BDP1 which only produces music thru USB drives.