[Pez]

Yes, it is a different mix.  I would argue, counter your assertions, that it is a better mix, and the fact that even you admit "the sound is better" is proof of that.  To go farther than that, either of us would need to know what the intentions of Merchant, the original production team, and the team that did the remix -- and, for that matter, how much of an overlap there may have been in those groups -- were.

But one thing's certain:  if it was a deliberate remix, which everyone seems to agree, the fault (if any) lies with WEA and not HDTracks.  Period.

Argue all you want. Your point that I contradict myself by agreeing that the overall sound quality is better AND the mix isn't wrong is asinine and I'm pretty sure you know that, but prefer to confuse the issues. Whatever, it's moot to me. It is not correct and I want it corrected. I bought it from HD tracks, I don't give a damn who is responsible. It is their product. I'd like to restate that this is not the first bad mix I have heard from HD tracks. It proves to me that this is an ongoing quality control issue with HD tracks.

[vhiner]

It WAS released as a physical DVD (DVD-Audio) in 2000, and was mislabeled as including a dedicated stereo layer!. 

I figured I was out of my depth. Sorry.

[JohnR]

Looking at the graphs (both taken from the same 30-second clip of track 1), you can see that the RedBook version's frequency plot drops below -90 dB at around 19kHz.  However, on the DVD-A, that same point occurs somewhere around 17kHz instead -- lower than the RedBook!

It's hard to see exactly, but it looks like the CD one has the top of the scale at -22 dB, whereas the DVD-A one has top of the scale at -28 dB. For this comparison, you would need to look at the same relative level e.g. 60 dB below -22 or -28, not the absolute level such as "-90 dB".

[JohnR]

  Because I have a BDP1 which only produces music thru USB drives.

I haven't done it but as far as I can tell the idea with the RR DVD-Rs is that you just copy the files onto your computer (and then in your case, onto your usb drive). I believe you need the computer to set up those USB drives anyway, even if you're downloading the files - ?

Why do you use DVD-R instead of offering downloads? The uncompressed WAV files are so large, that we felt most people would prefer a DVD-R.  That way, you don’t have hours of download time, plus you have a backup.

http://www.referencerecordings.com/HRx2.asp

[regnaD kciN]

Argue all you want. Your point that I contradict myself by agreeing that the overall sound quality is better AND the mix isn't wrong is asinine and I'm pretty sure you know that, but prefer to confuse the issues.

Nice resort to ad hominems, Pez.

But you know what's truly asinine?  Your insistence that the only way HDTracks can "make you whole" is if they make WEA remix the album specifically for you.  For that matter, your whole claim that HDTracks should bear the blame for WEA remixing the album is about as ridiculous as I can imagine.

[regnaD kciN]

I'm gonna probably regret this, but wouldn't it be better to band together and pressure HDtracks to disclose more information about the provenance (source) of their material so that consumers can make their own informed choices?

It probably wouldn't be a bad idea if they did.  Although, what should happen when the record company fails to provide such information -- either through slipshod handling of the information or a simple refusal to do so -- is beyond me.

For my part, I tend to assume that, if the release is 24/96 and the album was previously available as a DVD-A, or if it was 24/88.2 and previously available as an SACD, it's probably drawn from the mastering from those high-res physical formats, either as the dedicated 2-channel mix or as a mixdown from the 5.1.  It just strikes me that the odds would favor the record company deciding to go with the hi-res mastering they already have, rather than pull the master tapes and go through a whole new round of mastering...unless they make a big deal about how it's a brand-new mastering specifically for downloadable files.  (And, let's face it, if they were to do that, it would be answering the question about that specific release already.)

[Pez]

Nice resort to ad hominems, Pez.

Ad Homonyms? Do you realize I used to have a forum here called fight club? Trust me, you have not seen the kind of ad homonym attacks I resort to. If you did you'd be missing an arm.
 

[vhiner]

I'm a hopeless idealist, so bear with me: my fantasy is that Mr. Chesky would use those big, audiophile ears of his and decide to make sure each and every one of the " hirez" titles he sells sounds better than the Redbook version.  Everyone, including Mr. Chesky, knows that a significant number do not. The "Hey, we just sell what they give us," is fine for Amazon or Walmart because they aren't charging filet mignon prices for a repackaged hamburger. It's like buying a lousy steak at a gourmet restaurant only to have the owner who brags about his food in all of his advertisements say, "Whad'ya  gonna do? Our butcher ain't so good. Here's a coupon for your next visit." It's tacky and hurts the entire enterprise.

[Tyson]

Guys, please keep buying all the hi-rez titles, so I will know which ones to avoid.

[InfernoSTi]

This conversation is getting ridiculous. If folks can't stay on topic, then let's close this thread.  I agree the HDTracks mix sounds different than the CD mix but different isn't always bad (take a look at The Band "Stage Fright" thread where two completely different masterings were performed. http://theband.hiof.no/albums/stage_fright.html The mainstream mix isn't the favored mix in that case).

If folks really are so arrogant that they can't take other people's opinions as equally valid as their own, then I would dismiss them as a valid source of opinion.  The issue here is beauty and art, not formal conscription to formula.  The media isn't live performance, it is a mix media that we listen to.  If you want performance, see the artist live.  Otherwise, put the bias aside, listen to the music, decide if you like the mix better A vs B.  Then listen to the one you like best. 

It is no point of honor to say one has been a bigger bully than one is being currently. It only confirms the truth about the character and motive of the argument.  Leave bullying nonsense at the door when you come to the forum is my opinion.  It gets old for the rest of the members.

John

[Pez]

I'm a hopeless idealist, so bear with me: my fantasy is that Mr. Chesky would use those big, audiophile ears of his and decide to make sure each and every one of the " hirez" titles he sells sounds better than the Redbook version.  Everyone, including Mr. Chesky, knows that a significant number do not. The "Hey, we just sell what they give us," is fine for Amazon or Walmart because they aren't charging filet mignon prices for a repackaged hamburger. It's like buying a lousy steak at a gourmet restaurant only to have the owner who brags about his food in all of his advertisements say, "Whad'ya  gonna do? Our butcher ain't so good. Here's a coupon for your next visit." It's tacky and hurts the entire enterprise.

Absolutely brilliantly put.

One of my favorite Steve Jobs stories:

Writing for Forbes, Carmine Gallo reports that, shortly after becoming CEO, Parker called Jobs, who he is friends with, to ask for some tips.

“Well, just one thing,” said Jobs. “Nike makes some of the best products in the world. Products that you lust after. But you also make a lot of crap. Just get rid of the crappy stuff and focus on the good stuff.”

http://iphone.appleinsider.com/articles/11/05/17/steve_jobs_to_nike_ceo_get_rid_of_the_crappy_stuff.html

If Chesky really truly cares about his products, his image, his companies mindshare, and music reproduction in general he should heed these words. (and yes before someone points out the obvious that this quote implies that Cheskey 'makes' the hi Rez music I'm way ahead of you. He and HD tracks are still responsible for the quality of products it offers!)

[ted_b]

OK, this thread has gone as far as it can.  We won't solve this, and now everyone is getting ornery.

Let's demand better quality control, vote with our wallets, and report any further disappointing purchases.  Let's also do the converse and report back on great nuggets of hirez music we find.  Thanks.