[Prohobo]

Let me preface this by saying this is not only my first post, but I am a full on newbie. I am fairly decent on basic wiring, but some of this stuff is well beyond me - but I am an eager, willing, and humble learner.

I am currently building my first hi-fi system and had some experience listening to some speakers. On one occassion I listen to a set of speakers that had an external active cross-connect (behringer dcx2496) and was really impressed on how they were able to adjust the "phase" (I think that is the right term) to match the room and also change the sound stage. I am very interested in going this route. It seems that the behringer dcx2496 is a pretty good piece of kit for the money and has a rather large following in the mod community as well.

Recently I heard the Emotiva ERT 8.3 http://emotiva.com/ert83.shtm - they were very good sounding speakers for the money and they could be bi-amp as well. After reading over the speaker manual and doing a little more investigation I found out that while the speakers can be bi-amp they would still be running on their internal passive cross-overs. Am I understanding that correctly? If that is the case it would seem that bi-amping a passive system is rather pointless - or am I missing something.

My thought was this:

I would like to install a toggle switch on the back of the speaker that would allow me to bi-pass the internal passive cross-over and switch it to the external active cross-over.

My questions are:

1. Can I just fully bi-pass the internal passive cross-over and wire the switch to send the mid/tweet to speaker connect labeled (tweet) and wire the 8" woofers to the speaker connect labeled (woof) - with the switch.




2. I realize that I am attempting to externally bi-amp active cross overs - which means that I would have both the tweets and mid on one channel, would that be a problem?

3. There are only TWO speaker connects, is it possible to tri-amp these - I guess I would have to make another speaker connect? What is your thoughts on that?

Any other suggestion or ideas?

Hopefully I am understanding this correctly and my DIY project doesn't sound silly.

This is what I am attempting:

[planet10]

It seems that the behringer dcx2496 is a pretty good piece of kit for the money and has a rather large following in the mod community as well.

There is a very real need for the mod community.

dave

[jackman]

Since you asked, I'll give you my $.10 on this one.  Don't do it! 

There are a million reasons why I would advise against this but here are a few to get started.  To use the DCX, you will have to completely bypass the passive xovers, make new connectors or at least adapt connectors to each driver and configure the DCX.  This last part is no picnic unless you know what you are doing.  Also, the connectors for the DCX are balanced and your receiver or power amp is probably RCA.  To use the DCX, you will need a dedicated amplifer for each driver. 

After all of the effort and expense, the end result will probably not sound better than your current passive xovers and will most likely sound worse.   Spend the money to improve your system and if you want to try some DIY, upgrade the caps in your xovers and treat the cabinets with No-rez or something similar.  These are easy mods that a novice can easily execute.  There are lots of opinions on these things on this site and others. 

Please note, I run system that includes a DCX and I'm very familiar with how it operates.  At the moment, it's only used on my woofers and it sounds great, but you can achieve a similar end result without all of the complexity a DEX brings to your system.  Plus, I'm not crazy about the DCX with mids and high frequencies.  In un-modded form, the DCX does something strange to these frequencies I do not like.  There are mods but they are expensive and, IMO, not worth the expense or effort. 

If you insist on using a DCX, check out the classifieds.  There is a guy selling some Emerald Physics speakers with modded DCX and everything you need to get started, for a very low price.  AND the crossover is already programmed by people who know what they are doing.  Sell your speakers and buy the Emerald's if you insist on a DCX based system.  The alternative is to mess around with your stuff, potentially blow your speakers or "mod" them and make them impossible to sell, and wind up with an inferior system after spending lots of time and money.

Just my .10!

Cheers,

J

[Prohobo]

Since you asked, I'll give you my $.10 on this one.  Don't do it! 

There are a million reasons why I would advise against this but here are a few to get started.  To use the DCX, you will have to completely bypass the passive xovers, make new connectors or at least adapt connectors to each driver and configure the DCX.  This last part is no picnic unless you know what you are doing.  Also, the connectors for the DCX are balanced and your receiver or power amp is probably RCA.  To use the DCX, you will need a dedicated amplifer for each driver. 

After all of the effort and expense, the end result will probably not sound better than your current passive xovers and will most likely sound worse.   Spend the money to improve your system and if you want to try some DIY, upgrade the caps in your xovers and treat the cabinets with No-rez or something similar.  These are easy mods that a novice can easily execute.  There are lots of opinions on these things on this site and others. 

Please note, I run system that includes a DCX and I'm very familiar with how it operates.  At the moment, it's only used on my woofers and it sounds great, but you can achieve a similar end result without all of the complexity a DEX brings to your system.  Plus, I'm not crazy about the DCX with mids and high frequencies.  In un-modded form, the DCX does something strange to these frequencies I do not like.  There are mods but they are expensive and, IMO, not worth the expense or effort. 

If you insist on using a DCX, check out the classifieds.  There is a guy selling some Emerald Physics speakers with modded DCX and everything you need to get started, for a very low price.  AND the crossover is already programmed by people who know what they are doing.  Sell your speakers and buy the Emerald's if you insist on a DCX based system.  The alternative is to mess around with your stuff, potentially blow your speakers or "mod" them and make them impossible to sell, and wind up with an inferior system after spending lots of time and money.

Just my .10!

Cheers,

J

Thanks for the time and detailed response - ironically it WAS the emerald 2.3s that I had listen too that really blew me away. However, they were $5k and that is currently over my budget.

My plan was to buy 2 Emotiva UPA-2 stereo amps (http://emotiva.com/upa2.shtm) which have both balanced and unbalanced outputs - to run a DCX to the two amps and then bi-amp out to the speakers. That's when I noticed that the speakers, while bi-amp able are still passive and the DCX (external active cross) would just be connecting on top of a passive system.

I certainly would buy the Emerald 2.3s if I had the money - but I was trying to emulate that on a budget.

Your $.10 is worth more than you know - I am humble enough to know what I don't know and that is the important first step.

As a side note - it might be fun to try to play with a active crossover set-up with a DCX on a pair of used cheap speakers from Goodwill - for some practice in wiring and working with a DCX. Saw some JBL speakers at Goodwill for $20 - maybe worth tinkering with.

Other than the Emerald's are there any other's you would recommend?
Also - do you know where I might find a set of Emerald's in the used market on the cheap?


 

[jackman]

There was a set in the classified section of Audiocircle.  Don't know if they sold but they were very inexpensive.  That would be a good first toe in the water of active speakers.  Modding your speakers might destroy their resale value and would be a difficult proposition.  The DCX is not very user friendly, IMO, and you need lots of wires and amps.  You could buy the Emerald speakers in the classifieds for much cheaper if you wanted to give it a shot. 

The DCX has to be modded to sound good enough for audiophile playback, IMO.  Unmodded is good for bass management but you have to know what you are doing.  There are other,  less expensive, options available you should consider.

Here is a link.  For $1,200 with original boxes and modded DCX, it's a very good deal.  He even has some receivers he is selling that can be used for amps.  You could probably swing an awesome deal.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=98471.0

[JohnR]

That would be a good way to start.

Prohobo, the 8.3's are 1200 each not per pair aren't they?

[JohnR]

I might just add a caveat, that is if you plan to get some ability do measurements as well. Otherwise an active (and especially) digital crossover is likely to be an exercise in frustration. Even then, it takes quite a learning curve...

[macrojack]

They're right -- active can be a massive pain. For many, it is surely more trouble than its worth. I hired a pro to set mine up for me.

After learning all the speaker parameters, the terminology and the goals, you then have to learn how to set your machine's options. Then, after screwing with it endlessly, you finally determine that the many variables are interdependent and that you are feeling like the one-armed paperhanger with crabs.

That's when you start looking into measurement equipment and a whole new set of learning curves involving graphs and readouts you can't begin to fathom and room problems you were hoping not to find.

Like others have suggested, you should probably leave well enough alone, or start over with equipment that is designed for active set-up. . . and comes with set-up guide. It's not a place for dabbling and half-measures.

[Prohobo]

There was a set in the classified section of Audiocircle.  Don't know if they sold but they were very inexpensive.  That would be a good first toe in the water of active speakers.  Modding your speakers might destroy their resale value and would be a difficult proposition.  The DCX is not very user friendly, IMO, and you need lots of wires and amps.  You could buy the Emerald speakers in the classifieds for much cheaper if you wanted to give it a shot. 

The DCX has to be modded to sound good enough for audiophile playback, IMO.  Unmodded is good for bass management but you have to know what you are doing.  There are other,  less expensive, options available you should consider.

Here is a link.  For $1,200 with original boxes and modded DCX, it's a very good deal.  He even has some receivers he is selling that can be used for amps.  You could probably swing an awesome deal.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=98471.0

Thanks - I did see some C2s for sale, but I was looking for the C2.3 - I will keep my eyes open.

[Prohobo]

That would be a good way to start.

Prohobo, the 8.3's are 1200 each not per pair aren't they?

They are currently on sale for $1199 for the pair - http://emotiva.com/ert83.shtm