[JLM]

Interested in higher end with full bass (full range for 2 channel - audio use).

I'm aware of the Omega Super 5 Bipole, but it's only rated down to 56 Hz.

Definitive Technology offers several, but is Def Tech higher end?  (I don't like metal domes.)

My preferences are single driver and transmission lines.  TIA

[neekomax]

I've had Def Tech BP8020 bipolar towers (the smallest ones in that line). Never really liked them for music. I think they're a better choice as mains for HT perhaps.

[mcgsxr]

I like the options I see so far. 

There are older Mirage speakers that were bipole (OM-10 and OM-12 for sure, there may have been others in that line) and there were some by Paradigm too.

Certainly some of GR Research's OB speakers would qualify, and as I know you are a speaker guy, I bet those would turn your crank in your private basement space!

[opnly bafld]

Are these "higher end" enough for you? 

AudioKinesis Cloud Chasers
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=79325.0

While not bipole, Turning Point Audio HR-1s are also very good sounding speakers with monopole drivers on the front and a radial driver on top (shorter pair of speakers in picture/ around $2500 I think).
http://turningpointaudio.com/


Lin

[Tyson]

GR Research V1, V2, and Super V are all good.  As are the AudioKinesis speakers.  As is the Linkwitz Orion (although less good than the GR or AK speakers, IMO). 

[JLM]

Thanks for the responses...

Allow me to clarify:  I'm looking for a discussion of quality/full range bi-pole designs (not HT surround speakers).  Open baffles are dipoles (not the same).  Omni-directional designs are not bipoles either.

Bipole designs use matching/complementary drivers that face front/back that are wired in phase.  The higher frequencies radiate in a circular pattern (dipole is more of figure .  Omni-directionals typically radiate much of their energy (soundstage) up.  Bipoles have the advantage of allowing series or parallel wiring and much of the cabinet vibrations cancel out.

AudioKinesis is definitely a contender. 

Planet 10 (Dave): what happened to your post why can't bipoles go deep?

[Duke]

In my opinion, the main advantage of bipolars set up correctly is a relatively well-energized, spectrally-correct, late-arriving reverberant field - and this is psychoacoustically desirable because it does a good job of recreating the feel of live music.  Dipoles, omnis, and other polydirectional speakers do a good job of this as well.   

One of the setup requirements for best performance from a bipole (or any other polydirectional) is to have a fairly long path-length-induced time delay before the onset of the additional reverberant energy.  In this respect, bipoles are about the equivalent of dipoles but generally more forgiving than omnis.  Because bipoles don't suffer from dipole cancellation, they don't need EQ to bring up the low end like dipoles often do, so amplification is simplified a bit.  With proper geometry, bipoles can mitigate both the baffle step and the floor-bounce notch:

http://www.hifizine.com/2010/06/the-controlled-pattern-offset-bipole-loudspeaker/ ; scroll down to "Taming early reflections".

For a brief overview of successful commercial bipolar configurations, see the second paragraph of this post (the post is entitled "Part Three"): 

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=56877.msg499568#msg499568

[opnly bafld]

Omni-directionals typically radiate much of their energy (soundstage) up. 

Not sure what you mean by this,  it's not like you end up looking at the ceiling when listening to omnis.
The Turning Point HR1s have 3 active drivers and 2 of them face the listener. If you can pull them out into the room a little (like bipole and dipole speakers) they sound very lively and with the HR1s center stage stays centered even when listening at far left or right.

If the Cloud Chasers fit into a person's budget I would be inclined to go with them, but if they are out of reach I would recommend giving the HR1s a listen.

Lin

[JLM]

The Decware Radials (gen 1) used an upfiring mid/woofer and forward firing tweeter (that look similar in concept to those HR1's) and they produced a soundstage that floated above the speakers.  Bipoles radiate much like omni's without the vertical emphasis.

Just IMO, you're welcomed to disagree.

[opnly bafld]

The Decware Radials (gen 1) used an upfiring mid/woofer and forward firing tweeter (that look similar in concept to those HR1's)

Correct*, but the front firing midwoofer does allow this design to give a different presentation.

Lin
*really more of an evolution of these: http://www.decware.com/newsite/RL3.htm

[JLM]

Lin,

Interestingly if you follow that link you'll find that those RL3's have been replaced with the ERR (Extended Range Radial) that looks just like the 1st generation Decware Radial I heard (inverted main driver facing up/front firing ribbon with one cap/resistor).   

In any event, none of the Decware Radials are bipoles.

[opnly bafld]

Interestingly if you follow that link you'll find that those RL3's have been replaced with the ERR (Extended Range Radial) that looks just like the 1st generation Decware Radial I heard (inverted main driver facing up/front firing ribbon with one cap/resistor).   

There are sound (pun intended) reasons why, but I don't want to discuss that here.

In any event, none of the Decware Radials are bipoles.

Correct, but I agree with Duke.

In my opinion, the main advantage of bipolars set up correctly is a relatively well-energized, spectrally-correct, late-arriving reverberant field - and this is psychoacoustically desirable because it does a good job of recreating the feel of live music.  Dipoles, omnis, and other polydirectional speakers do a good job of this as well. 

Lin 

[richidoo]

I heard some Deftech 7004s a couple weeks ago. I thought they sounded excellent, with a balanced response top to bottom, with very strong clear bass well integrated to the top drivers. They were powered by a mid-pack Pioneer Rx.

[JLM]

Rich,

Thanks, I'll have to hunt them down for a listen.

(But I normally don't like metal drivers, especially tweeters.)

[planet10]

Planet 10 (Dave): what happened to your post why can't bipoles go deep?

Guess i need to move that community resource off my commercal site to allow it to be posted here.

Bipoles can go deep. Even the modestly sized microTower with 2 4" drivers gets into the high 30s, low 40s. One of the variations on the EL166 ML-TL is to do a bipole. My MTM version probably get sinto the high 20s.

If the drivers in a bipole are tightly coupled the dramatic reduction in box load because of the active force cancellation also does not hurt the quality of the bass.

dave

[JLM]

If the drivers in a bipole are tightly coupled the dramatic reduction in box load because of the active force cancellation also does not hurt the quality of the bass.

dave

Please explain what you mean.

[Bob in St. Louis]

Please explain what you mean.

Yea, I don't get that one either. 

[planet10]

Drivers are wired in phase and mounted on opposite sides of the cabinet. If exactly opposite and tightly coupled (as with the holey brace in the 1st pair below), then...



... a driver's mechanical reactive energy (normally loaded into the box) is cancelled by the other driver in the bipole because it is moving in the opposite direction. If well coupled some 90% (an estimate) of the energy that would normally be imparted into the box is not. Essential in any serious sub (IME) and now touted by commercial manufacturers like Martin Logan (who don't take full advantage), Paradigm & Naim.

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/148901-microtower-bipolar-ml-tl-chr-70-el70.html

dave

[chrisby]

Having built both of the designs referenced in above post, I can add that the version with top firing driver retains many of the benefits of a"true" bipole, with added benefit of greater placement flexibility - i.e. they can be sited much closer to a rear or side wall boundary.

These particular enclosures were designed for modest sized FR drivers ( Mark Audio CHR70 and first cousin once removed CSS EL70),  but no doubt with appropriate remodeling, could likely be made to work with larger wide-band or even multi-ways.   

Unless you decide to get artsy with the joinery details, these are not a particularly difficult build - a nice veneer or paint job will take longer than the initial fabrication/assembly.

[JLM]

Thanks Dave, that's one of the benefits I see in bipole.  OTOH Duke values offset bass more, so a compromise must be made (between extended range drivers, minimizing cabinet vibration, and room nodes).

Chrisby, I agree that basic cabinet construction of MLTL aren't that hard (my first/only were two bend 6 cu. ft. MLTL woofer cabinets).  Those bad boys (Fried Model M's) were rated to 114 dB at 17 Hz and frankly over powered nearly any resident sized space.  But they made glorious sound.