Why I'm A Bitter & Disgruntled Audiophile

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Jabroni

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Why I'm A Bitter & Disgruntled Audiophile
« on: 29 Aug 2011, 09:20 pm »
Rant Summary
This game (the pursuit of consistently great sound from our systems) is rigged because most mainstream CDs are badly recorded. I don’t know about you, but I didn’t drop mid 4 figures on my system just to enjoy a handful of flawless recordings but be able to point out all the flaws on my remaining 1400 songs.


Background
To understand where I'm coming from here are 3 things to consider...

1. The recording is by far the biggest determinant in the sound quality of an audio system (then comes the speaker/room and then after another BIG gap comes the remaining system components). What Every Audiophile Should Know & Never Forget

2. You can’t get beauty from a beast. If the original recording sucks you can hi rez it to kingdom come and it’s still going to suck. Throwing money at the problem – even $500K – won’t solve the problem either. Sure, it will mitigate it and you can be certain you’re squeezing every last drop of performance from a lemon but at the end of the day, you’ll just have a ridiculously expensive system pointing out all the flaws in the recording which is not what high end is supposed to be about.

3. IMO, The vast majority of recordings (way more than 95%) are much closer to beasts than they are to beauties. To put it another way, a recording is basically an either/or proposition in that it is either flawless enough to get out of the way and enhance rather than inhibit your connection to the music – or it’s not. Period. This is not about listening critically trying to nit pick the presentation, it’s about trying to enjoy the music but (repeatedly) having that connection broken because of distracting flaws in the recording. The second a recording does that then, to me at least, it’s fundamentally flawed and goes in the beast category.

Background Summary
Any well chosen $3000 system is more than enough to get great, almost amazing, sound from beautiful recordings whereas, no amount of money can get great sound out of beastly recordings which, in my experience at least, constitute well over 95% of the CDs I've heard.


Rant
Mainstream CD recordings have been getting worse not better, which is an inexcusable and unacceptable disgrace and both the record execs and the recording engineers are to blame. This is what happens when whores without artistic sensibility or passion (except for the benjamins) run the show. The record companies deserve to bleed red which apparently is exactly what’s happening.

Bringing Dynamics Back To Music


Bottom Line
It’s taken me 15 years as an audiophile to realize the following: because lousy recordings are de rigeur, this hobby is rigged. Those of us who are truly in it for the music rather than (just) the gear - IOW we want consistently great sound from our systems and music collections - are basically chasing 4 leaf clovers.

Best of luck to those still chasing the dream.

/ Rant
« Last Edit: 29 Aug 2011, 10:46 pm by Jabroni »

konut

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Re: Why I'm A Bitter & Disgruntled Audiophile
« Reply #1 on: 29 Aug 2011, 09:46 pm »
Being human, there are never going to be RECORDINGS that satisfy the diverse TASTES that each one of us has. If improvements to your system do not allow you to enjoy the MUSIC on a deeper level then perhaps there is nothing that can be done to satisfy your particular TASTES. Maybe you're just listening to the wrong MUSIC.   

Tyson

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Re: Why I'm A Bitter & Disgruntled Audiophile
« Reply #2 on: 29 Aug 2011, 09:48 pm »
This is precisely the reason people switch to tubes.  May not sound as perfect as good SS equipment, but in general it has more soul and makes the vast majority of your music sound GOOD, not just mediocre.

Jim N.

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Re: Why I'm A Bitter & Disgruntled Audiophile
« Reply #3 on: 29 Aug 2011, 09:52 pm »
Well, for me there are thousands of well recorded CD's. I listen to those on my main system (I do use Wavelab to upconvert them to 24/96 DVD-A though). The lesser ones I enjoy on my Clip+ or in the car.

A lot of rock / pop music was flat out poorly recorded. As much as I love the early Rolling Stones material it's only played on the Clip+. Rock / pop music was often just a commodity meant to get to market as soon (and as cheaply) as possible. Yes the trend of loudness / compression has proved frustrating but I still have a huge collection of music that I can enjoy.

Moving up the audio tree has allowed me to truly appreciate great recordings and to accept the limitations of lesser ones. Sometimes being into audio is like trying to find the end of the rainbow. I'd love to be able to feel the way I once did about certain albums as I did when I played them on my record player back in the 60's. It's not going to happen because my horizons have broadened.

There's more than enough great sounding music to fill all of my available dedicated listening time. Sorry that you are so frustrated by this hobby.

Nick77

Re: Why I'm A Bitter & Disgruntled Audiophile
« Reply #4 on: 29 Aug 2011, 09:56 pm »
I know i only listen to a fraction of my library, just the stuff that is recorded well.

2bigears

Re: Why I'm A Bitter & Disgruntled Audiophile
« Reply #5 on: 29 Aug 2011, 10:01 pm »
 :D  i have lotsa shitty sounding cds and records.i wonder if it helps to be as stoned as the recording engineer was back in the day.....might be on to something ???? have spent a lot of money on 're-mastered' favorite material    :D

PRELUDE

Re: Why I'm A Bitter & Disgruntled Audiophile
« Reply #6 on: 29 Aug 2011, 10:08 pm »
Rant Summary
This game (the pursuit of consistently great sound from our systems) is rigged because most mainstream CDs are badly recorded. I don’t know about you, but I didn’t drop mid 4 figures on my system just to enjoy a handful of flawless recordings but be able to point out all the flaws on my remaining 1400 songs.


Background
To understand where I'm coming from here are 3 things to consider...

1. The recording is by far the biggest determinant in the sound quality of an audio system (then comes the speaker/room and then after another BIG gap comes the remaining system components). What Every Audiophile Should Know & Never Forget

2. You can’t get beauty from a beast. If the original recording sucks you can hi rez it to kingdom come and it’s still going to suck. Throwing money at the problem – even $500K – won’t solve the problem either. Sure, it will mitigate it and you can be certain you’re squeezing every last drop of performance from a lemon but at the end of the day, you’ll just have a ridiculously expensive system pointing out all the flaws in the recording which is not what high end is supposed to be about.

3. IMO, The vast majority of recordings (way more than 95%) are much closer to beasts than they are to beauties. To put it another way, a recording is basically an either/or proposition in that it is either flawless enough to get out of the way and enhance rather than inhibit your connection to the music – or it’s not. Period. This is not about listening critically trying to nit pick the presentation, it’s about trying to enjoy the music but (repeatedly) having that connection broken because of distracting flaws in the recording. The second a recording does that then, to me at least, it’s fundamentally flawed and goes in the beast category.

Background Summary
Any well chosen $3000 system is more than enough to get great, almost amazing, sound from beautiful recordings whereas, no amount of money can get great sound out of beastly recordings which, in my experience at least, constitute well over 95% of the CDs I've heard.


Rant
Mainstream CD recordings having been getting worse not better, which is an inexcusable and unacceptable disgrace and both the record execs and the recording engineers are to blame. This is what happens when whores without artistic sensibility or passion (except for the benjamins) run the show. The record companies deserve to bleed red which apparently is exactly what’s happening.

Bringing Dynamics Back To Music


Bottom Line
It’s taken me 15 years as an audiophile to realize the following: because lousy recordings are de rigeur, this hobby is rigged. Those of us who are truly in it for the music rather than (just) the gear - IOW we want consistently great sound from our systems and music collections - are basically chasing 4 leaf clovers.

Best of luck to those still chasing the dream.

/ Rant
I agree, and this is my thought in this post while back.
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=97284.0

amblin

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Re: Why I'm A Bitter & Disgruntled Audiophile
« Reply #7 on: 29 Aug 2011, 10:16 pm »
I agree.

But there are usually things more than just the recording/mastering quality to behold. For example, there are many recordings of important historic perfomances by some of the all time greatest masters that only exists on the now 'technically inferior' media,  Sure the digital restoration/remaster can revive those to a certain point. but you'll still need to tolerate many rough edges. Afterall, enjoying music was not always science. Sometimes, It's like a kid chosing his hero. Mine was the Superman. He was so cool, so manly :icon_lol:. And I never really cared why he wore his red underwear over the trousers, or why he'd fly in that funny pose. 

I'm more into the classical music than other genres, so i think i shoud talk about classical.  Back in the age of LPs , from the end and final encore of mono age, up to the fruitful days of stereo (~70s) and dawn of the digital age (80s), there was usually a clear standard while buying a record: 

1, The title/composer
2, The collaborators and location
3, And the last, but usually the most important if you're after the sound quality : Names of the balance engineer and director. 

It was an golden age for recordings,  it was a time the finest forms of 'art' was almost fully judged, and represented by one or few masterminds. And not by the share holders, board members, or, the 'trend' .

One of my all time favorate recording director, EMI's Walter Legger, he was almost like an golden hallmark IMO. And i think it'd be very fitting to add a quote from his memoirs here:

'I am convinced that in the arts, committees are useless. What is necessary are people like Karajan, Culshaw and me; we know not only how to achieve the best artistic results but how to attract the public and carry out the whole operation with carefully chosen collaborators. Democracy is fatal for the arts; it leads only to chaos or the achievement of new and lower common denominators of quality.'

-----------
And since i don't know when, there are the peoples that chose records only by those listed on the 'penguin guide' etc.  I agree, those listed records were usually of the highest standards, both technically and artistically.Which would save one alot of effort and money when making a basic collection.   But they shouldn't be the ONLY standard you follow. Sure, chosing by yourself, if you had sufficient artistic taste and knowledge, it'd usually be 'all roads lead to Rome'. But during the course of finding, and self-improving,  you'll also discover lots of recordings not so good when compared to those masterpieces, but still very interesting and worthy of of your appreciation. It was fun. 

For example, Vivaldi's Four Seasons. There must be more than a million different recordings, and there 're the great names, I MUSICI, The English Concert, BPO, Kremer, Accardo, Mutter, Perlman, Zukerman, the list goes on and on. All a little different here and there. But if you look at the 'guide', St Martin/Marriner's (DECCA) is the best. Yes, buy that one and no more. But then you'll be missing all the diversity, the colourful faces of art.  There's only one Mona Lisa, but you should also enjoy all the different but still beautiful smiles.
« Last Edit: 30 Aug 2011, 09:53 am by amblin »

wgscott

Re: Why I'm A Bitter & Disgruntled Audiophile
« Reply #8 on: 29 Aug 2011, 10:31 pm »
Having now seen that a significant fraction of the so-called high-resolution stuff one can pay for and download actually isn't anything more than up-sampled red-book (like about 1/3 of what I have purchased from HDtracks.com), this leads me to conclude (a) the problem isn't just with bad CDs, and (b) a lot of people listening to what they falsely (but understandably) assume to be high-res music must be fooling themselves if they think it sounds better.

I think a lot of this boils down to good old-fashioned consumer fraud.

At least it only took me about 1 year to realize this.   :?

jonbee

Re: Why I'm A Bitter & Disgruntled Audiophile
« Reply #9 on: 29 Aug 2011, 10:55 pm »
I cannot argue that you are not entitled to be as disgruntled as you want to be, I've been in this hobby in a big way for well over 40 years and have never felt that way. No recording can be all things to all people, and most can be improved, but I have found plenty of recordings going back to the '60s that have brought me great joy, and a reasonable re-creation of the music, notwithstanding their flaws. It is the music that counts!
I also disagree with this:
Quote
Any well chosen $3000 system is more than enough to get great, almost amazing, sound from beautiful recordings whereas, no amount of money can get great sound out of beastly recordings which, in my experience at least, constitute well over 95% of the CDs I've heard.
I'm sorry, but I've also concluded after many years of searching for giant killers that the minimum retail price for a really good system is above $10k today, about what it was in 1968 in constant dollars. A really good $10-20k system will bring life to most recordings, and shouldn't make bad ones sound worse. Room acoustics do play a big role, but a great system will still sound good in a mediocre room that is sized correctly for the speakers, and which allows for reasonable placement of same. Obviously buying used will drop that price closer to your figure.
So- enjoy your recordings (or not).

Tyson

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Re: Why I'm A Bitter & Disgruntled Audiophile
« Reply #10 on: 29 Aug 2011, 10:58 pm »
Most recordings (and I have about 5000), are pretty good, actually.  There are a few bad ones, but most are quite listenable and enjoyable.  If this is not the case for you, then don't blame the recordings - blame your room or blame your system.  ANY system will sound better with a treated room, so look to that first.

If your room is well treated, then look to speakers first, then your amp and preamp - they are the most likely pieces to cause average recordings to sound bad.  Next would be the source, and cables, if you are a person that thinks cables make a difference. 

OK, here's my philosophical question for everyone - if forced to choose between an "accurate" system and an "enjoyable" system, what do you pick?

As a follow up, I'd also note this - all systems are inaccurate.  SS systems tend to be more in the analytical/dry area of inaccuracy, while tubes tend to fall into the musical/warm side.  That's if we put questions of total quality aside.  Given 2 pieces of gear (one tube, one SS), of equal overall quality, these divisions tend to hold.

Pez

Re: Why I'm A Bitter & Disgruntled Audiophile
« Reply #11 on: 29 Aug 2011, 11:05 pm »
I agree with Tyson. There was a point when I thought most of my recordings sucked. But when I upgraded my system and treated my room I realized that maybe only half or so of my recordings were truly bad. You'd be surprised what all that stuff and true hi rez can do!

Pez

Re: Why I'm A Bitter & Disgruntled Audiophile
« Reply #12 on: 29 Aug 2011, 11:07 pm »
Also get rid of your passive crossover! That really makes a huge difference if you really want your system to sound better.

Pez

Re: Why I'm A Bitter & Disgruntled Audiophile
« Reply #13 on: 29 Aug 2011, 11:10 pm »
Also I'm no longer a bitter audiophile! Though I can say I used to be.

PRELUDE

Re: Why I'm A Bitter & Disgruntled Audiophile
« Reply #14 on: 29 Aug 2011, 11:12 pm »
Also get rid of your passive crossover! The really makes a huge difference if you really want your system to sound better.
I agree with this one as a major upgrade :thumb:

amblin

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Re: Why I'm A Bitter & Disgruntled Audiophile
« Reply #15 on: 29 Aug 2011, 11:23 pm »


OK, here's my philosophical question for everyone - if forced to choose between an "accurate" system and an "enjoyable" system, what do you pick?

As a follow up, I'd also note this - all systems are inaccurate.  SS systems tend to be more in the analytical/dry area of inaccuracy, while tubes tend to fall into the musical/warm side.  That's if we put questions of total quality aside.  Given 2 pieces of gear (one tube, one SS), of equal overall quality, these divisions tend to hold.

Why not enjoy both worlds and have nice day.  :green:  Forget the credit card, sit down and cue the music  (well,  of course, until Sept 26th, the monthly judgement day  :duh:)

Jabroni

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Re: Why I'm A Bitter & Disgruntled Audiophile
« Reply #16 on: 29 Aug 2011, 11:29 pm »

'I am convinced that in the arts, committees are useless. What is necessary are people like Karajan, Culshaw and me; we know not only how to achieve the best artistic results but how to attract the public and carry out the whole operation with carefully chosen collaborators. Democracy is fatal for the arts; it leads only to chaos or the achievement of new and lower common denominators of quality.'

Great quote. It's kind of like the saying that if you want to win the high jump, you find 1 person who can jump 7 feet not 7 people who can jump 1 foot.

What a sad irony that because of the audio standards in the movie industry most brain dead action flicks have better sound quality than your average music CD. This has nothing to do with taste in music. To each his own. Regardless of one's musical preference, all CDs should be recorded to a minimum standard that allows us to sit back and enjoy. Right now that is far from being the case.

When I go to audio shows, I'm rarely impressed either and most of the time it's jazz and classical music being played so perhaps there's also a difference in how we define a world class recording. Recording great sounding CDs is obviously a black art because to my ears at least, it's such a rare occurrence. It's kind of like that once in a lifetime lover who makes you realize that you only thought you knew what great sex was. Once you get a taste of the real thing though, it forever changes your perspective and there's no going back or settling for cheap substitutes.

Here's a recording I always bring to audio shows and try to play in rooms with good sounding systems. People, especially room hosts, are usually very impressed and ask me which CD this on. I submit it as an example of a world class, borderline flawless recording that sounds amazing and encourages you to crank it as much as your system can stand. The one slight flaw I hear in presentation could easily be the limitations of my system and especially box speakers but it in no way detracts from the overall beauty of the recording:

Blue Rodeo - Already Gone
Track 7 from the CD Lost Together.
Recorded in 1992 before all this loudness crap started to destroy modern recordings. Note that none of the other songs on the CD sound anywhere near as good. Perhaps fitting because the rest of the CD sucks IMO.

I just want to point out that I have no problem thoroughly enjoying music from my old headphones (Sennheiser 450s). For reasons that I haven't quite figured out, headphones never seem to get in the way of enjoying the music. That said, they can't match the added joy of hearing a great recording through loudspeakers.


Elizabeth

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Re: Why I'm A Bitter & Disgruntled Audiophile
« Reply #17 on: 29 Aug 2011, 11:43 pm »
I guess the op is screwed.
Might as well just toss it all.
I find I love any music i play out of the 6,000 LP and 3,000 CDs if i like the music at all, it sounds just fine.
Right now i am listening to some Cds from 1940's Jazz 78s.
Great. Wonderful.
I am just not constantly looking for the FLAWS, i am actually LISTENING TO THE MUSIC.
Sorry the Op cannot do that, but not my problem.
He needs to learn to stop judging all the time, chill out, relax, listen the the music and not the stereo.

Jabroni

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Re: Why I'm A Bitter & Disgruntled Audiophile
« Reply #18 on: 29 Aug 2011, 11:50 pm »
This is not about listening critically trying to nit pick the presentation, it’s about trying to enjoy the music but (repeatedly) having that connection broken because of distracting flaws in the recording.

It is staggering the number of people who cannot read properly or evidently understand a clearly written post. You just embarrass yourselves.

drummermitchell

Re: Why I'm A Bitter & Disgruntled Audiophile
« Reply #19 on: 30 Aug 2011, 12:18 am »
I have to say I enjoy the radio in my van,radio stations on the TV,ect.
Still find good in it all,just like 40yrs ago,AM radio,good ol jukebox.
Oh,I still like my Bryston(icing on the cake)even with some crappy cds(especially when those tunes mean something to me).Think I'll go spin some ol Skylark,LookingGlass.