[*Scotty*]

I am still unclear as to whether the OP has ever had a system he liked listening to music on or not.

The baby Bryston and Axiom system would sound so staggeringly good on every single recording

.
 It appears from the above statement that he loves the sound of everything including 128kbps and 16/44.1 when heard on a DAC optioned Bryston B60SST Axiom M80v3 system,which is at odds with the title of this thread "Why I"m A Bitter & Disgruntled Audiophile"
 My outlook on the recording quality problem we all experience from time to time as we pursue this hobby is to not expect too much from most pop recordings. Some of these recordings are better enjoyed on the car stereo than on the BigRig.
 However, a lot of recordings that I thought had some severe problems like the Genesis "Invisible Touch" album are not as badly recorded as I thought they were. I think I have been fortunate enough to not have purchased recordings that have been brick-walled or have exceeded the digital zero VU limit.
 For me, over the years as my systems' resolution has increased my enjoyment of even imperfectly done recordings has been increased rather than decreased.
Scotty

[BrysTony]

It is staggering the number of people who cannot read properly or evidently understand a clearly written post. You just embarrass yourselves.

Jabroni, all of us can read properly and do understand your post.  You talk about "trying to enjoy the music".  I don't understand the trying concept -- I think most just enjoy the music, I know I do.  There is so much wonderful music.  When you run across a poorly recorded or performed piece just discard it and enjoy something else.

Elizabeth, Well said -- I agree with you.

Tony

[Zero]

I hate to be the dark cloud in this thread, but this hobby isn't for everyone.

In fact, one of the most intelligent music lover's I ever encountered was this 13 year old kid who, like many audiophiles, spent countless hours reading forums, researching gear, and occasionally bringing in components to try out in his own room (he was a spoiled kid). After two years of milling through the process that most of us have gone through, he, at the age of 15, concluded that hi-fi wasn't for him. He recognized the double edged nature of this hobby, how it can send even the most logical of thinking individuals into a tail-chasing frenzy, how much work it can truly take to craft a system that can please a critical ear, and how his current lifestyle and general musical preferences did not align with general hi-fi pursuits. He ended up settling for a humble system, and as far as I know - he's happy as a pig n' sh!t. 

Now obviously most of us here cannot or will not relate to the above. Hell. That's why we are all here at this forum! But for many people, even self-appointed audiophiles, sometimes the best way off the marry go round is to build a simple inexpensive system that hits all the right musical buttons.  For the rest of us who are either willing/able to take these pursuits to the enth' degree....  well, that's why companies like Bryston are in business.  

Shit, what happened to the rest of my post? Copy and paste fail. Adding to it: 

To the OP, I'll say this:

You're right. There are many shitty recordings out there. The kind that sound so bad that it'll damn near make you want to punch a grandma in the face.  But you know what - that shouldn't discourage you. In fact, there are plenty of ways to build a resolute, yet forgiving (and enjoyable) stereo system.  And the answer isn't as specific or as broad as "go tubes" or "go solid state" or  "go brand X - though there are some brands that tend to lean heavily towards the colored/polite side of the tonal spectrum." Now I'm not sure what gear you've owned, what music you like, what room(s) or acoustics you have to deal with - but I can guarantee that there is *something* out there that'll make you as happy as that kid I mentioned above, only you'll be enjoying a better overall musical experience. So at the end of the day, you either you want it, or ya don't. 

[SoundGame]

What I can say is that from a very young age, starting with my dad's reel-to-reel and Capeheart console 8-track, TT, AM/FM stereo, I was always intrigued and attracted to audio systems.

My pursuit of hi-fi led me to getting a Bryston 3B-ST, which then led to my current BP6+4B-SST2 combo.  When I moved to Bryston, I started to really appreciate how good some recording were - some on vinyl and some on CD.  It led to my appreciation of a whole new set of musicians and music.  I went from Alternative and Pop over to acoustic rock and then jazz and classical.  I didn't altogether abandon my former music tastes but now embrace jazz and clasical and thankfully, there is lots of very well recorded music to enjoy.  With a lot of the poorer pop/rock CD, the vinyl pressings sound better - so I hold onto a TT and my vinyl as well.

What I've also found is that I prefer to listen to crapy recorded music on crapy systems like my desktop radio or car stereo.  Still even on them it's the music that gets my toes tapping.

[jimdgoulding]

With age comes wisdom.  What are you listening to if not the music.  There are plenty of components and recordings available that honor the music and its reproduction.  You do need a favorable room and set-up, tho, for best results.  I enjoy music in my car, also, but limit that to what I call road music.  Usually there is some boogie factor involved. 

[Zero]

Soundgame - my approach mirrors yours.  I use two systems.  One system is for the PC, which is where a majority of the crappy recordings (yes, even mp3's.. le gasp!!!) reside.  The other is my main system, which is where I go when I want to experience musical transformation(figuratively speaking.. of course).  I find it far more enjoyable to have two different systems with two distinctly different voices than to have one general system. Then again.. I'm the kind of guy who'll play Nicki Minaj or Lady Ga Ga right after enjoying a Dave Brubeck number or an enchanting performance by the National Chamber Orchestra of Armenia. 

Hmm. On that note. Did you hear that noise? I think it was the sound of what little hi-fi cred I have left making its exit!   

[Tyson]

The Verve remastered Billie Holiday is my acid test for any system.  It's an old recording and can sound like nails on a chalkboard on the wrong system.  On the right system it is quite musical and enjoyable.  In other words, it's a less than perfect recording.  How your system handles less than perfect recordings will dictate how enjoyable your system is. 

Put it another way - if your system sounds AWESOME with 10% of music and BAD with 90%, then your system is pretty messed up, IMO.  On the other hand, if your system sounds VERY GOOD with most recordings, and sounds BAD with the minority of your recordings, then you're on the right track. 

I've seen it over and over again, people assume that their overly-analytical systems are "revealing", and that the crappy, unmusical sound they are getting is a result of their "transparent" systems laying bare "how bad" most recordings truly are.

I'm here to tell you IT IS NOT THE RECORDING, IT IS YOUR SYSTEM.  Trust me, I've been down that path of "transparency" and "accuracy" and it's a dead end.

[jimdgoulding]

Jabroni, all of us can read properly and do understand your post.  You talk about "trying to enjoy the music".  I don't understand the trying concept -- I think most just enjoy the music, I know I do.  There is so much wonderful music.  When you run across a poorly recorded or performed piece just discard it and enjoy something else.

Elizabeth, Well said -- I agree with you.

Tony

Me, too.

[mcoaggie]

How about the opposite experience.  I'm new to this hobby  . 

I listened to crappy systems and consumer rock all my life.   I had never heard a "good" system until my father-in-law's system.  Now that I have a decent system I find myself opening up to many more genres, styles, and tastes.  Don't get me wrong I've always enjoyed music but now all of it is more intriguing including things i would never have listened to in the past.  It is true, I hear more flaws in some recordings but that hasn't deterred me from the genre's I've always enjoyed.  I'm still in the honeymoon/infatuation stage but thought I'd throw this out. 

-Owen

[Jabroni]

I am still unclear as to whether the OP has ever had a system he liked listening to music on or not..
 It appears from the above statement that he loves the sound of everything including 128kbps and 16/44.1 when heard on a DAC optioned Bryston B60SST Axiom M80v3 system,which is at odds with the title of this thread "Why I"m A Bitter & Disgruntled Audiophile"
 My outlook on the recording quality problem we all experience from time to time as we pursue this hobby is to not expect too much from most pop recordings. Some of these recordings are better enjoyed on the car stereo than on the BigRig.
 However, a lot of recordings that I thought had some severe problems like the Genesis "Invisible Touch" album are not as badly recorded as I thought they were. I think I have been fortunate enough to not have purchased recordings that have been brick-walled or have exceeded the digital zero VU limit.
 For me, over the years as my systems' resolution has increased my enjoyment of even imperfectly done recordings has been increased rather than decreased.
Scotty

Wow. This is like the twilight zone. Another one who can't read. From my OP in the thread that you're referring to I explain very clearly why every song would sound staggeringly good...

Replace your entire CD collection with state of the art, rerecorded, remixed, remastered, 16 bit, 44.1KHz PCM audio, ripped and converted to 128kbps mp3s using the best engineers, equipments, techniques and protocols on earth to create recordings which are as perfect as humanly possible given the constraints.

Seriously, are some of you just out to embarrass yourself? I don't usually resort to shaming language but in these cases, it's totally warranted. I'm all for differences of opinion and I love a good debate but if you can't even read a clearly written post there can be no discussion.

Brystony, the fact that you feel inclined to White Knight for one of the other ones who can't read is only a reflection on you. In my post immediately before she embarrassed herself by proving that she can't read here's what I wrote and you can verify that it hasn't been edited:

"I just want to point out that I have no problem thoroughly enjoying music from my old headphones (Sennheiser 450s). For reasons that I haven't quite figured out, headphones never seem to get in the way of enjoying the music. That said, they can't match the added joy of hearing a great recording through loudspeakers."

In one paragraph, I write about enjoying the music 3 times.


Brystony wrote:
When you run across a poorly recorded or performed piece just discard it and enjoy something else.

That sentence proves that you can't read as well. I stated numerous times in my OP that IMO 95% of CDs are badly recorded so if I were to discard each lousy recording I came across, what would that leave me with? It's rhetorical. Given your (lack of) reading ability, there's no need to prove you're a math whizz as well.

Come on guys, if you're going to disagree by all means but do so on merit, on the basis of what I've actually written. Any other comments that just proves the poster can't read will be ignored.

Those of you who think you have thousands of well recorded CDs, more power to you and enjoy. No sarcasm intended. We obviously live in different worlds and have very different ideas as to what constitutes great recordings.

I'll try one last time to clearly make my point:

The kind of listening many of you are writing about does NOT require high end equipment. The whole point of high end equipment is to have the best possible reproduction of music in our homes. With the amount of money most of us have spent on audio equipment we have a right to be picky. In the OP, I provided a link titled Bringing Dynamics Back To Music that leads to dozens of articles showing that many of today's top recording engineers agree with me that too many of todays recordings suck. That's all I'm saying. The recordings suck, and without great recordings you can forget about great sound.

To me, that's like saying the sky is blue except when it's cloudy. I'm not sure how you disagree with that but a lot of people seem determined to try. To each his own. As I've shown in this post and others, I'm respectful with people who are respectful with me and who put thought into their posts but some of these fly by responses are a joke and don't deserve respect.

[JLM]

Yeah, some systems are "too analytical" in that they ruin nearly all music by being ruthlessly revealing.  My main rig does not fall into that trap, yet most of my music library (which I do enjoy) stays with the secondary systems. 

Those ruthlessly revealing systems are fatiguing to me (like having a smart ass teenager around).    

[ted_b]

Jabroni,
You headline that you are BITTER and DISGRUNTLED then lay into people who are asking you to chill out and enjoy the music?  What is your point?

Also, you are not winning any friends with these "can't you frickin read??" comments....

Not sure what all this is about, frankly.

[neekomax]

Wow, Jabroni. That last post certainly proved one thing: You are bitter and disgruntled. Q.E.D.

[Jabroni]

The Verve remastered Billie Holiday is my acid test for any system.  It's an old recording and can sound like nails on a chalkboard on the wrong system.  On the right system it is quite musical and enjoyable.  In other words, it's a less than perfect recording.  How your system handles less than perfect recordings will dictate how enjoyable your system is. 

Put it another way - if your system sounds AWESOME with 10% of music and BAD with 90%, then your system is pretty messed up, IMO.  On the other hand, if your system sounds VERY GOOD with most recordings, and sounds BAD with the minority of your recordings, then you're on the right track. 

For the record, nowhere do I say my system sounded bad. That's an assumption that some seem to be making. My system did a very nice job with most below average recordings (of course, some recordings are beyond help). This whole discussion is about the other end of the spectrum, great sound. I know amazing sound requires a (much) better system. All I've been saying is great sound is possible with any well put together $3000 system if the recording is up to it. Most recordings are not so we're left with anywhere from decent to very good sound - again depending on the recording. IMO, that's not good enough. High End is supposed to be about consistently great to amazing sound.

Trust me guys, what I'm saying is not that radical. It's not radical at all.

[Tyson]

Consistently amazing sound?  Good luck with that.....

[jaxwired]

I agree that a lot of popular music is poorly recorded.  However, the internet has made it possible (and way easier than it used to be) to find the good stuff.  In fact, that's my other hobby, music hunting.  I literally have several hundred recordings that are post year 2000 that are very well recorded.  Maybe not perfect, but when I compare them to something from 1980 it's comical how good they are.  I wont bother with examples as nobody cares, but trust me, there's still lots of good stuff out there if you hunt for it.  It does take time and lots of patience.  I've ended 3 hour hunt sessions without a single purchase many times, but then there are those nights when I stumble upon a hole batch of recordings that gorgeous.  And i'm not talking about audiophile stuff.  Far from it. 

[Jabroni]

The hunting is tedious as hell but definitely worth it once you find a great song. Whether it's from Galaxy satellite or the internet, I generally have to go through a hundred or so songs to find an addition to my collection.

Sturgeon's Law - 90% of everything is crap.

I've found it applies to so much; recording quality, songs, pictures, books, shows, the list goes on...

[neekomax]

You seem quite passionate about the fact that you feel the recording industry is doing a lousy job. I have two thoughts:

1) Perhaps that is just how things are. I find I don't really like most music period. That's ok, what I do like, I really like. That goes for recording quality, but also composition, performance, emotional content, etc. You might have to content yourself with the 5 or 10% or whatever that you deem well recorded.

OR

2) Seriously, maybe you should go into audio production and make things better. If you have great ears, very high standards, and are intelligent and diligent, you could do very well, and help all us poor music fans out in the process.

[zygadr]

I have personally been listening to a lot of radio in the past few years - FM analogue and digital.
I have a large collection of CD's and only if I'm in the mood for something in particular, do I reach for a CD.

My system can easily tell a bad recording from a good one, but I have learnt to forget about the recording engineers lousy judgement and just listen to the ''MUSIC''.
When you are able to do this, you will find that even radio can be a very musical and moving experience without needing a mega buck system.

Back in the 70's there was a record shop here in Perth, West Australia that had a reasonable but not expensive system to play records for customers.
No matter what the recording, EVERYTHING sounded good!???.........why?..........it was just a freak synergy that hid the nasties and made everything sound nice.
This is what we ''Audiophiles'' need in truth............an affordable system that makes music sound good, no matter what the source or it's quality.

[konut]

Blue Rodeo - Already Gone
Track 7 from the CD Lost Together.
Recorded in 1992 before all this loudness crap started to destroy modern recordings. Note that none of the other songs on the CD sound anywhere near as good. Perhaps fitting because the rest of the CD sucks IMO.

Really?The cuts I heard on youtube seem to be of similar quality, and I thought Angels was better musically. Don't know which album this came from

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZfoopfNqPA&feature=related

but I thought it more creative than 90% of the stuff the mainstream is trying to foist. Thanks for bringing Blue Rodeo to my attention.